Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[gsk8]

Statement from ISU

ISU Statement – Kamila Valieva (ROC) disqualification and Olympic Winter Games Team event results - International Skating Union

Further to the International Skating Union’s (ISU) Statement of January 30, 2024 regarding Kamila Valieva (ROC), the ISU takes the discussions within the Figure Skating community and the media with regard to the re-ranking of teams for the Olympic Winter Games (OWG) Beijing 2022 Team event very...

isu.org

 

[Arwen17]

Was the excuse made up? Probably. They probably convinced themselves it was the truth. How would she remember exactly what she ate and if she drank water from a glass on the 21st December. Can you remember what you drank or ate two months ago? Probably a bunch of memories all muddled up. Simply saying I don't know how I tested positive isn't good enough you get 4 years, so in the absence of finding proof via contamination of supplements or sabotage, then they went with this theory to save her career.

I would do the same if I had to save my career.

To me she got the heaviest sentence because the case was such a media frenzy and so high profile and because her lawyers don't seem to be very good.... or they thought this weird grandpa story would be a better possible gamble of defense than just saying "I have no idea how it happened. I can't find anything that was contaminated."

I really see it as the lab's fault for taking so long to return the sample and Russia's fault for not making sure all samples are clean before you send someone to the Olympics. If doping is "widespread" in Russia, then you would think they would be extra careful to have all samples returned before they decide who is in their olympic team.
Really that should be happening no matter what, but for Russia it should be extra, extra important so that they don't "lose face" again internationally since they still can't compete under their own name at the Olympics.

The whole thing is a clown show. On one hand you're being told the Russians are so good at cheating that they never get caught except for rare screw-ups like Kamila's test. On the other hand, they seem to be clueless clowns who can't even bother to make sure all tests return negative before they assign skaters to big events like Olympics and can't come up with a decent story/defense for when someone does test positive.

What the heck? Are they totally clueless and genius evil masterminds at the same time?

 

[Zora]

As some people have mentioned. The delay was unfortunate, but WHY did RusFed clear Kamila for Olympics when her test wasn't cleared? That is why this mess got so messy.

Which makes me wonder if they got the results of the other skaters like Trusova and Shcherbakova back earlier? If that's the case, then RusFed could have assumed there's something off with Kamila's test results.

 

[4everchan]

Bring on the appeals. The ISU is trying to justify their re-ranking ahead of the cases. I dislike such tactics.

 

[Zora]

This is testosterone which is proven to work. If you're going to go to such lengths to dope athletes you wouldn't use a common heart drug of questionable benefit an athlete, let alone in a microdose like people were talking about.

One could also say that they didn't choose the most obvious drugs so that in case they got caught, a good Grandpa story could possibly save them. The grandpa taking TMZ seems plausible, other drugs not so much.

 

[el henry]

To me she got the heaviest sentence because the case was such a media frenzy and so high profile and because her lawyers don't seem to be very good.... or they thought this weird grandpa story would be a better possible gamble of defense than just saying "I have no idea how it happened. I can't find anything that was contaminated."

I really see it as the lab's fault for taking so long to return the sample and Russia's fault for not making sure all samples are clean before you send someone to the Olympics. If doping is "widespread" in Russia, then you would think they would be extra careful to have all samples returned before they decide who is in their olympic team.
Really that should be happening no matter what, but for Russia it should be extra, extra important so that they don't "lose face" again internationally since they still can't compete under their own name at the Olympics.

The whole thing is a clown show. On one hand you're being told the Russians are so good at cheating that they never get caught except for rare screw-ups like Kamila's test. On the other hand, they seem to be clueless clowns who can't even bother to make sure all tests return negative before they assign skaters to big events like Olympics and can't come up with a decent story/defense for when someone does test positive.

What the heck? Are they totally clueless and genius evil masterminds at the same time?

Understandable, because there are two "they's" here.

The adults at RusFed, RUSADA and Team Tut are not clueless at all. They could qualify for the Olympics themselves from their race to cover their own butts. And displaying their strength in throwing Kamila under the bus. Multiple times.

The fact that they would protect Dr. Shvetskiy over Kamila shows their strength of character and courage. That is, that they have none. Her coach does not even have the fortitude to attend her hearing. She could also qualify for the Olympics on her own: running from consequences.

In the meantime, Kamila is left with stories to peddle that no one believes. I do think that poor girl was probably clueless. The adults around her? Not a chance in Hades.

 

[4everchan]

Why are people surprised by this ? There are two common kinds of approaches in doping cases. The serious ones : the athlete gets blamed by their federation but the coaching staff is also suspended. This shows an anti-doping approach which aims to eliminate doping altogether and clean up the sport in general. It sends a strong message to everyone at all levels that doping is unacceptable.

The other approach has been to let the athlete take the full blame and/or make a victim of the athlete... (must have been sabotage!!!) : the fed does nothing, the coaching team is free to go.. etc That approach aims at winning medals, not at reducing foul play and eliminating doping. Sacrifice the ones that get caught, keep going with the other athletes...

 

[rain]

The other approach has been to let the athlete take the full blame and/or make a victim of the athlete... (must have been sabotage!!!) : the fed does nothing, the coaching team is free to go.. etc That approach aims at winning medals, not at reducing foul play and eliminating doping. Sacrifice the ones that get caught, keep going with the other athletes...

As others before me have said, but it's worth repeating, the only reason I can think of for Valieva to present such a ludicrous defence as the Grandpa story is that it completely and conveniently lets her team (coach, doctor, training environment) off the hook, and so there's no reason to investigate (which of course there is).

And hey, look at the real results: they may actually still get a team medal out of it, but they definitely still have gold and silver in the women's individual competition (with nobody questioning the entire training rink and all of the athletes that came from it, how convenient), and individual medals in ice dance and pairs. So they have to sacrifice Valieva — not too big a loss, all things considered, and they can martyr her for their evil west/we're the best propaganda. A cynical viewpoint, perhaps, but I think a likely scenario.

 

[midori green]

Bring on the appeals. The ISU is trying to justify their re-ranking ahead of the cases. I dislike such tactics.

I'm trying to process their line of thinking. I suppose there is a hypothetical future scenario where the redistribution of points is not as clear-cut as this situation. Kamila was 1st in both of her segments, so removing her points moves all other women up in points equally. But what if the disqualified skater finished 2nd or 3rd etc. The skaters below the dq would move up in points, and those already finishing above would see no change. This could, theoretically change the overall team points and flip team placements. (Initial gold team gets pushed to silver after member of original silver team is disqualified, resulting in more points to the original bronze medal team. Original bronze team is not just moved up to silver, but reallocation of points from the dq'd segments gives them more points than the original gold team.) My brain doesn't want to run the math today, but I think this might be the thinking if ISU legal people...prevent the use of precident set with an "easy math" case from complicating a future "messy math" case. It seems more straightforward to DQ the whole team without reallocating points. (I haven't even thought much of if they would reallocate segment points if all ROC skaters were disqualified!)

 

[4everchan]

I'm trying to process their line of thinking. I suppose there is a hypothetical future scenario where the redistribution of points is not as clear-cut as this situation. Kamila was 1st in both of her segments, so removing her points moves all other women up in points equally. But what if the disqualified skater finished 2nd or 3rd etc. The skaters below the dq would move up in points, and those already finishing above would see no change. This could, theoretically change the overall team points and flip team placements. (Initial gold team gets pushed to silver after member of original silver team is disqualified, resulting in more points to the original bronze medal team. Original bronze team is not just moved up to silver, but reallocation of points from the dq'd segments gives them more points than the original gold team.) My brain doesn't want to run the math today, but I think this might be the thinking if ISU legal people...prevent the use of precident set with an "easy math" case from complicating a future "messy math" case. It seems more straightforward to DQ the whole team without reallocating points. (I haven't even thought much of if they would reallocate segment points if all ROC skaters were disqualified!)

DQ the whole team is the simplest and prevents flipped results. No math required is always easiest

 

[Amei]

DQ the whole team is the simplest and prevents flipped results. No math required is always easiest

It would make sense to DQ the whole team or recalculate the points that would result in Canada third and ROC fourth. But from the sounds of it....either 1 of those might not survive an appeal.

 

[midori green]

DQ the whole team is the simplest and prevents flipped results. No math required is always easiest

Yes. The part-team/part-individual approach is messy. (That's why synchro is the "real" team skating event, but that's a different thread entirely.)

 

[TallyT]

It would make sense to DQ the whole team or recalculate the points that would result in Canada third and ROC fourth. But from the sounds of it....either 1 of those might not survive an appeal.

Whatever they do, the appeals are going to drag on, if the actual (aka legally binding) rules don't make it crystal clear. Were I any of the teams involved, I wouldn't be holding my breath for my (or maybe-not-my) piece of metal just yet...

 

[4everchan]

Canadian Olympic Committee considering an appeal after ISU's statement published today.

Sorry.. no English.

Affaire Valieva : le COC songe à un appel

Le COC continue de croire que l'équipe nationale de patinage artistique doit recevoir la médaille de bronze des Jeux olympiques de Pékin, en 2022.

ici.radio-canada.ca

 

[jorge2912]

I read the argument why they won't use the rule 353 and I feel that they are protecting ROC yet maybe they paid many more money for try to hide Valieva doping and others violation to fair play , Valieva paid the consequences of such action but why Russian Olympics Committee don't pay any cost or the consequences of that scandal? Is unfair ,I think ROC MUST pay the cost and consequences from their action.

If ISU acts again on that way and don't sanctions any action like that or against fair play the true risk is that figure skating be removed as Olympics sport.

Canadian Olympic Committee considering an appeal after ISU's statement published today.

Sorry.. no English.

Affaire Valieva : le COC songe à un appel

Le COC continue de croire que l'équipe nationale de patinage artistique doit recevoir la médaille de bronze des Jeux olympiques de Pékin, en 2022.

ici.radio-canada.ca

I'm totally agreed with Canadian Olympics Committee and they must appeals because is something unfair and can't remain without reaction,

 

[NaVi]

Here's a section of an upcoming thread I hope to post(though I'm not sure I'll end up posting it).

---------------------------

Let's pretend there's a Team Event where 1) Russia beats the US by 1 point, 2) Georgia is able able to make the FS segment of the team event after the SP, 3) Georgia is behind both the US and Russia in all dance, pairs, and mens segments but adds an extra point gap between Russia and the US in both the SP and FS for women where Russia is ahead, 4) Georgia comes in either 4th or 5th place and thus doesn't medal 5) Before the medal ceremony, it's announced that the Georgian womens skater has a months old positive drug test.

What is the proper course of action in this case? What if the medals have already been given out before it's revealed there was a positive drug test?

 

[Mathman]

Canadian Olympic Committee considering an appeal after ISU's statement published today.

Sorry.. no English.

Affaire Valieva : le COC songe à un appel

Le COC continue de croire que l'équipe nationale de patinage artistique doit recevoir la médaille de bronze des Jeux olympiques de Pékin, en 2022.

ici.radio-canada.ca

To whom are these appeals directed? Is there some super-court that is over the CAS?

 

[ladyjane]

I believe the CAS decision cannot be overturned (and it's only about Valieva herself) but certainly the ISU decision of not redistributing the scores can? I don't know where, maybe even CAS itself so long as its not concerning Valieva directly anymore, the central question would be how the ISU interpreted the disqualification of Valieva for the Team Event.

 

[saine]

To whom are these appeals directed? Is there some super-court that is over the CAS?

They're directed at the ISU over the Team event where the medals were reallocated but not the points. Russia may be appealing the decision as well.

 

[TallyT]

They're directed at the ISU over the Team event where the medals were reallocated but not the points. Russia may be appealing the decision as well.

...................... we are all gonna need a lot more popcorn.