Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[rain]

It depends on how someone sees things.

One point of view is strong anti-doping rules. A team with a doped athlete needs to be d/q completely to protect clean sport.
The other point of view is defending clean athletes part of a team with a doped athlete. This may send a sympathy message towards those who didn't cheat from that team, but it also sends the message that even with someone who cheated, a team can still win a medal.

I can see how both points of view are valid.

I'm of the opinion that if one person on a team dopes, the entire team should be disqualified. I think this should be the case across the board, from skating, to relay, to rowing, to court sports. I don't care if the doped athlete is the guy who warms the bench for the whole game or the coxswain. The entire team should be DQed.

A lot of people think this is too harsh and hurts a lot of clean athletes. But I think this is absolutely necessary to send a strong message that doping will. not. be. tolerated. Part of the problem is that not a strong enough message has been sent to date and athletes, countries and entourages are still making the calculation that doping is worth the risk.

 

[rain]

There is no evidence Kamila cheated.

Except her positive drug test. The end. It's ridiculous at this point.

 

[Skating91]

Except her positive drug test. The end. It's ridiculous at this point.

CAS disagree. They believe she did not cheat, and that she was honest and trustworthy.

 

[Skating91]

I'm of the opinion that if one person on a team dopes, the entire team should be disqualified. I think this should be the case across the board, from skating, to relay, to rowing, to court sports. I don't care if the doped athlete is the guy who warms the bench for the whole game or the coxswain. The entire team should be DQed.

A lot of people think this is too harsh and hurts a lot of clean athletes. But I think this is absolutely necessary to send a strong message that doping will. not. be. tolerated. Part of the problem is that not a strong enough message has been sent to date and athletes, countries and entourages are still making the calculation that doping is worth the risk.

Jimmy Garoppolo has just been convicted for using performance enhancing drugs. By your logic the Raiders should all their wins from last season cancelled, wins handed to the teams that competed against them, then a reorganisation of the standings in each division.

What if it happened to the Chiefs? Should the Super Bowl be taken from them and all results cancelled?

My opinion is that the Raiders victories last season should stand.

 

[rain]

Jimmy Garoppolo has just been convicted for using performance enhancing drugs. By your logic the Raiders should all their wins from last season cancelled, wins handed to the teams that competed against them, then a reorganisation of the standings in each division.

What if it happened to the Chiefs? Should the Super Bowl be taken from them and all results cancelled?

My opinion is that the Raiders victories last season should stand.

I don't follow football at all, so I really couldn't care less about the Super Bowl, or, frankly the giant money machines that are pro sports. I'm talking strictly about the Olympic movement.

Though do I think sports in general should be more strict about drugs? Yup.

 

[Amei]

Like the Russians have now apologized for dragging out the case close to two years?

The Olympic bronze medal can be a very meaningful thing for athletes who have federation and sponsor performance bonuses tied up to that metric- it can mean the difference between being able to afford to train on for another year or not.

Russia and Canada aren't at fault for dragging this out, doping cases unless a deal is cut (which has almost 0 chance of happening here) generally take years to resolve. Unfortunately it also appears the ISU has poor rules in place to handle a DQ for the team event so both Russia and Canada have reason to contest the decision the ISU made.

 

[rain]

CAS disagree. They believe she did not cheat, and that she was honest and trustworthy.

They gave her a four-year suspension. The continued attempts to adulate a drug cheat and blame everyone but her and her entourage are really something else.

 

[Skating91]

They gave her a four-year suspension. The continued attempts to adulate a drug cheat and blame everyone but her and her entourage are really something else.

I'm stating facts. CAS said she did not cheat, and that she was honest and trustworthy. Keep in mind this was a 15 year old and she is still a child to label her with the slur of drug cheat when CAS stated she is not a drug cheat is quite harmful.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I also defend the athletes but I tend to see the larger picture.. Defending the ROC clean athletes may be commendable but does that do justice to the dozens of athletes who participated in the team event ? Or what about all the skaters who participated in the women competition ? I mean the whole event became a gong show. Considering it may be the only chance for many of these athletes to compete at the Olympics, no matter of medals and rankings, I find it upsetting. Many athletes have spoken along those lines too. It's unfortunate that ROC let Kamila compete in the women's event. The team event was going to get ruined no matter what. They could have preserved the women's competition, not only for all the other nations but for Anna and Sasha too.

The point is, I really dont think Kamila or team ROC ruined the team event.. I'm actually happy on the side that my beloved Anna Scherbakova now has and European title too.. But for the things that are obvious to me - someone wanted to find a cheater and that's fine, but for me that one actually ruined the game in this occasion (and not the cheater), because that someone wanted purposely to point on a cheater at one particular point of time. All of them could rid of Kamila if they wanted months ago, and they didn't, so in my honest opinion they are the one created a drama we are witnessing right now...

 

[4everchan]

Kazan will be the host of the Games of the future...

and guess what :
On apprend que c’est la jeune patineuse russe suspendue pour quatre ans pour dopage, Kamila Valieva, qui sera l'invitée d’honneur de la cérémonie d'ouverture mercredi.

translation
Kamila Valieva, the young Russian skater suspended four years for doping will be the guest of honour for the opening ceremonies on Wednesday.

Source https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/2050709/jeux-futur-russie-poutine-cio

So this is exactly why some of us are upset : If ROC cared about clean athletes and defended them, they wouldn't do that. What kind of message does this send ? (rhetorical question)

 

[Skating91]

She simply attended an event. It's not even a sports event. She sat in a seat and stood for an anthem.

Even the CAS panel stated that she didn't attempt to gain an advantage and that she was trustworthy and honest. Unfortunately WADA were pursuing 4 years before the investigation had even concluded which is unprecedented even more so for a 15 year old child.

They're supporting a child who has suffered the harshest punishments ever handed out given she was 15 a year old, while we all know about adult swimmers who only got two years for blaming tap water, the Jamaican swimmer who primarily competes under USADA jurisdiction who was caught multiple times for multiple drugs in her system yet given a reprimand that stood, yet 4 years for a trace amount of this commonly used medication that provides very little benefit if any.

You're talking like it's Alberto Salazar invited to an event, not a child that had a trace amount of a common medication that people don't generally use for performance enhancing despite being around since the 70's. Athletes had all these years up until 2014 to pump themselves with TMZ yet no-one ever got results like Valieva. And a once off positive test she and everyone else at Tutbertize always tested negative despite Eteri skaters always being on podiums therefore always getting tested at events, despite all the out of the competition tests that skaters would have taken. Plus it was RUSADA too it wasn't like it happened at an international event and you can say RUSADA must be covering for them.

It's all very strange.

 

[4everchan]

She simply attended an event. It's not even a sports event. She sat in a seat and stood for an anthem.

It is a sporting event, perhaps not the most traditional but there are competitions in both physical and digital sports.

 

[TallyT]

They're supporting a child who has suffered the harshest punishments ever handed out given she was 15 a year old

They are supporting the poster child, now the worldwide symbol, for systematic sanctioned cheating and abuse of the system and the competitors.

Which, thanks to the Russian adults around her, will be what she will forever be remembered as.

 

[Skating91]

They are supporting the poster child, now the worldwide symbol, for systematic sanctioned cheating and abuse of the system and the competitors.

Which, thanks to the Russian adults around her, will be what she will forever be remembered as.

The CAS panel don't believe she doped, so I'm going to side with them since they looked at the evidence, heard her testimony.

Sochi was representative of systemic cheating using powerful steroids and evading detection via swapping samples. That was quite elaborate and required great ingenuity.

Kamila was a 15 year old where it just seems like a once off positive test out of nowhere for a common, cheap, over the counter drug that provides little benefit to the athlete.

Likely Kamila tested positive due to cross-contamination given the frequency of use in Russia, or even sabotage. Unfortunately she was never able to find a supplement bottle that would clear her name. There is a lot of compassion for her because the Jamaican swimmer who tested positive multiple times for multiple drugs received a reprimand, the American swimmer got two years for claiming she tested positive to TMZ due to drinking American tap water despite no-one using that drug in America (unlike Russia where it is common therefore many routes of exposure). It's hard not to feel sorry for a 15 year old girl losing the entire peak of her career (when she is the greatest talent to ever come along) when in similar cases adults have received moderate suspensions and other children no suspension. It does feel like they are punishing a child for the sins of others, which is highly discriminatory if true.

You're still trying to turn this into being some kind of Sochi 2014 moment, as if this is the final piece of the puzzle that explains dominance of Russians in skating. And with greater heat now on Eteri's camp, Shvetsky moved along 18 months ago, if anything they are producing better jumpers now than 2-3 years ago.

The possibility of Kamila being martyred weeks before February 24th could be considered so some kind of inside setup, but RUSADA weren't to know the result would be delayed. Just a coincidence that they latched onto.

 

[macy]

Kazan will be the host of the Games of the future...

and guess what :
On apprend que c’est la jeune patineuse russe suspendue pour quatre ans pour dopage, Kamila Valieva, qui sera l'invitée d’honneur de la cérémonie d'ouverture mercredi.

translation
Kamila Valieva, the young Russian skater suspended four years for doping will be the guest of honour for the opening ceremonies on Wednesday.

Source https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/2050709/jeux-futur-russie-poutine-cio

So this is exactly why some of us are upset : If ROC cared about clean athletes and defended them, they wouldn't do that. What kind of message does this send ? (rhetorical question)

i saw photos of her at this event standing next to Putin, and she looked genuinely miserable, i almost didn't recognize her. it spoke volumes on how she is the product of Russian systemic doping, abuse, and how she truly is just a propaganda item and political puppet. a SEVENTEEN year old girl who has no choice in the matter. she is the face of the biggest doping scandal in years and they parade her around like a martyr for publicity. i feel so so awful for her- everyone has failed her. it's horrifying. i don't think she understands what's going on and what the truth really is, but i hope one day she can get away from all this and find peace.

 

[Skating91]

i saw photos of her at this event standing next to Putin, and she looked genuinely miserable, i almost didn't recognize her. it spoke volumes on how she is the product of Russian systemic doping, abuse, and how she truly is just a propaganda item and political puppet. a SEVENTEEN year old girl who truly has no choice in the matter. she is the face of the biggest doping scandal in years and they parade her around like a martyr for publicity. i feel so so awful for her- everyone has failed her. it's horrifying. i don't think she understands what's going on and what the truth really is, but i hope one day she can get away from all this and find peace.

I think she's miserable because everything she worked for over the last two years has been wiped out and prizemoney returned, and now can't compete for another 22 months. All during the peak of her career. You would be miserable too. All for a trace amount of a common medication that CAS says she didn't use to dope with. I'm sure she has no explanation for how it got into her system.

 

[Fluture]

The CAS panel don't believe she doped, so I'm going to side with them since they looked at the evidence, heard her testimony.

Ffs…

"In order to benefit from a reduced period of ineligibility, Ms Valieva needed to prove, by a balance of probabilities that she had not intentionally committed the ADRV by engaging in conduct which she knew constituted an ADRV or in conduct where she knew that there was a significant risk that said conduct might constitute or result in an ADRV and had manifestly disregarded that risk. Having carefully considered all the evidence put before it, the CAS Panel concluded that Ms Valieva was not able to establish, on the balance of probabilities and on the basis of the evidence before the Panel, that she had not committed the ADRV intentionally (within the meaning of the Russian ADR)."

They're not saying she "doped" or she "cheated" because it's legal jargon and they obviously can't prove that unless Valieva (or someone from her entourage) admits it outright. She could have taken the drug intentionally for a number of reasons other than "cheating/doping". How likely that is doesn't matter in the legal context. Saying "CAS didn't believe she doped" is just wilfully obtuse. Sure, they didn't explicitly rule that she doped but they did rule that she committed an anti doping violation and couldn't prove it to be not intentional.

The "honest and trustworthy" part you keep harping on about seems, to me, a result of CAS acknowledging that she, a 15-year old, likely didn't dope herself. Unfortunately, since this isn't in CAS jurisdiction, the only one they can punish is the one who officially committed the anti doping violation. The athlete who, under the rules as they are, is considered responsible for the things entering her body. Everything else isn't in their hands.

common, cheap, over the counter drug that provides little benefit to the athlete.

Not relevant.

"The immediate difficulty with this submission is that it is accepted by the Athlete that TMZ is a Prohibited Substance belonging to the S.4 hormone and metabolic modulators class and that its use in sport is banned at all times as it could potentially help the heart to function better. There may be some measure of scientific uncertainty about this but it is of little assistance to the Athlete in showing that she took the drug unintentionally." p.116

You're right, people should feel sorry for Valieva. She was a child training in a notoriously abusive environment and, with a very high chance, was doped by someone in that environment. Someone who didn't end up punished, who can now go their merry way abusing even more children in the name of "progress". That's tragic. That's cruel. And it's the thing anyone who really cared about her and her fate would be focusing on.

 

[macy]

I think she's miserable because everything she worked for over the last two years has been wiped out and prizemoney returned, and now can't compete for another 22 months. All during the peak of her career. You would be miserable too. All for a trace amount of a common medication that CAS says she didn't use to dope with. I'm sure she has no explanation for how it got into her system.

she can thank her fed, coaches, doctors and state money for that. i'd be miserable too.

 

[TallyT]

I'm sure she has no explanation for how it got into her system.

She actually had several, none of which CAS found even slightly believable.

 

[jersey1302]

is the full 100 plus page document available..every time i click on a link for it, it says not found. Did it get taken down?