Support frames for adaptive skating

[Diana Delafield]

A young adult member of my club, a competitive skater as a kid, is keen to get back on the ice but had to quit due to a minor spinal cord injury. She now, off-ice, uses a walker on good days and occasionally a manual wheelchair, but is capable of walking unaided for short distances. She wanted to try using a metal chair like she's seen used as a prop in ice shows, but at her mother's request I test-pushed one borrowed from the club kitchen and found it tended to skid if I put any weight on it at all. She's tried the little support frames we have for child beginners but they're too low, and she's tried taller ones at nearby public rinks and didn't like the < shape or the T shape. She preferred the [ shape of our kid-size ones so she can vary her arm positions from in front of her to either or both sides.

Having sort of adopted her quest and trying to help her, I'm having trouble locating ones that size and shape for sale for adults or adjustable to at least 35" height or higher. (The skater is 5'8" -- I'm 5'3"). I've left a phone message at my skate shop, but wondered if anyone here has had direct experience with either adaptive skating or using a chair for a prop (and if the latter, what kind or weight of chair did you use)? I found USFS's manual for adaptive skating online, although we're in Canada, but the links in their chapter on equipment are either too old or don't show the type of support frames we're looking for. The skater is not a beginner and wants something she can use for at least turns, spins, spirals, and small jumps if she keeps at least her hands on the bars. Her balance is good as long as she can touch something. She does small jumps at the side of the rink using the boards as light support, and does the lower level dances with her boyfriend as a supporting partner, but he has limited time to skate with her and she wants to be more independent on the ice.

Any leads?

 

[adhara]

Hi! I taught adaptive for a few years!

We built a few of our own out of piping and they were very helpful. I suppose you could customize it to the shape the skater wants. She could also probably just use her walker; we did that a few times.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Hi! I taught adaptive for a few years!

We built a few of our own out of piping and they were very helpful. I suppose you could customize it to the shape the skater wants. She could also probably just use her walker; we did that a few times.

Her wheeled walker has a seat that might get in the way, but she does have an old one her father used that is just a frame, with no seat and no wheels. Her mother suggested they dig that one out and try it. I'd still like to find a "squared-off U shape" frame meant for ice, as our club's equipment manager has become intrigued and says if I can find a model that works that well, the club might buy a few for other adult beginners to use. (They're always trying to get members interested in trying more of the many sports they offer at that club.) I can't see them cobbling together their own out of spare parts, though -- not that club's style.

Was there any problem at your rink with the wheels of a walker (or perhaps a manual wheelchair) tracking grit onto the ice? Or do the wheels get wiped off just before pushing them out? I've seen videos of wheelchair pairs skating and ballroom dance that intrigued me. My neighbour has an old manual one she says I can borrow now that her MS has put her into a motorized chair, but I haven't progressed any further with that than as an idea to experiment with myself.

Meanwhile my partner and I are polishing up two demonstrations, roller dance and pairs skating, to do for the club's Canada Day Sports Fest when everyone tries to interest other members into trying our sports for the summer, so this adaptive idea is just simmering on the back burner until I have more time. But thanks for the suggestion!

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Inclusive Skating are the people to talk to about this! Their website has a wealth of help and information. The section on equipment is particularly relevant.

Equipment for Inclusive Skating

Good luck! I hope you can find the perfect thing for your returning skater.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Inclusive Skating are the people to talk to about this! Their website has a wealth of help and information. The section on equipment is particularly relevant.

Equipment for Inclusive Skating

Good luck! I hope you can find the perfect thing for your returning skater.

The Leckey MyWay has possibilities, if she could get one in adult height with arm rests and without the straps, which she doesn't need. She's going to bring her father's plain old seatless walker to the club today and try it. The board member who oversees skating activities is all keen for her to give a little demonstration during our Sport Fest weekend, if it works. She wants a U shape with the bar in front of her really, so she can lean her chest on it in a spiral with her arms outstretched to either side, resting on the side pieces (if it will then glide with her). I like the way the Leckey one can easily move sideways, though. That's unique, as I remember when I was shopping for a walker for my husband years ago.

I'll pass the link on to the club's equipment people. They might see something they'd buy for the use of the couple of members' kids who have CP and currently get pushed around on the ice in wheelchairs by a parent.

 

[NanaPat]

The Red Cross loan out medical equipment, including walkers. They may have a variety of different styles that you could borrow to try out.

I notice that the dedicated skate aids have a lot of area on the ice, compared with land-based walkers (or a chair!). That may be needed to provide extra friction, because the ice is so much more slippery than most floors.

 

[Diana Delafield]

The Red Cross loan out medical equipment, including walkers. They may have a variety of different styles that you could borrow to try out.

I notice that the dedicated skate aids have a lot of area on the ice, compared with land-based walkers (or a chair!). That may be needed to provide extra friction, because the ice is so much more slippery than most floors.

She has an old walker without wheels that is the U shape she wants, curving around her in front and on both sides, with the back open. I have two walkers, one with wheels and one with little skis on the feet for use on carpets, in my storage locker, left over from my husband's years with Parkinsons. I don't know if the Red Cross would have anything different, and if someone is going to need something longterm, then renting from them is more expensive than buying your own, we found.

The girl at my club is looking for something intended to be used on ice, in case there's something different about the feet, either slipperier, or grippier, depending on what she finds she needs. A chair is sometimes used as a prop by skaters in galas or ice shows, pushing it or lying across it for spins, etc. We wondered, though, if an ordinary chair like the club has around for meetings would be too lightweight if she holds the back of it and it might tip. She's not seriously disabled; she does the pattern dances with her boyfriend just fine, but he's holding her at all times in case her leg suddenly goes numb on her, unpredictably. She tried her father's walker but it was a bit too low for her height when she had her skates on, and the legs were rusted or stuck somehow and we couldn't get the legs to extend. I'm going to take one of my husband's for her to try, since I gather he was several inches taller than her father.

 

[NanaPat]

She has an old walker without wheels that is the U shape she wants, curving around her in front and on both sides, with the back open. I have two walkers, one with wheels and one with little skis on the feet for use on carpets, in my storage locker, left over from my husband's years with Parkinsons. I don't know if the Red Cross would have anything different, and if someone is going to need something longterm, then renting from them is more expensive than buying your own, we found.

The girl at my club is looking for something intended to be used on ice, in case there's something different about the feet, either slipperier, or grippier, depending on what she finds she needs. A chair is sometimes used as a prop by skaters in galas or ice shows, pushing it or lying across it for spins, etc. We wondered, though, if an ordinary chair like the club has around for meetings would be too lightweight if she holds the back of it and it might tip. She's not seriously disabled; she does the pattern dances with her boyfriend just fine, but he's holding her at all times in case her leg suddenly goes numb on her, unpredictably. She tried her father's walker but it was a bit too low for her height when she had her skates on, and the legs were rusted or stuck somehow and we couldn't get the legs to extend. I'm going to take one of my husband's for her to try, since I gather he was several inches taller than her father.

I thought of borrowing from the Red Cross as just an opportunity to try different types of walkers to see if any of them are suitable; if you find one that is good, then you would know what to buy. But it sounds like you have a variety of "try-it" walkers available from other sources.

You could try WD-40 plus some hand tools to see if you could get the stuck legs un-stuck.

I am taking an exercise class where we use our chairs for balance support, and they work well. They are fairly standard stacking chairs with a full solid plastic back. I believe the legs are U-shaped as seen from the side, so there is a considerable amount of leg in contact with the floor. Of course, our carpet is not nearly as slippery as ice!

 

[Diana Delafield]

I thought of borrowing from the Red Cross as just an opportunity to try different types of walkers to see if any of them are suitable; if you find one that is good, then you would know what to buy. But it sounds like you have a variety of "try-it" walkers available from other sources.

You could try WD-40 plus some hand tools to see if you could get the stuck legs un-stuck.

I am taking an exercise class where we use our chairs for balance support, and they work well. They are fairly standard stacking chairs with a full solid plastic back. I believe the legs are U-shaped as seen from the side, so there is a considerable amount of leg in contact with the floor. Of course, our carpet is not nearly as slippery as ice!

Thanks for the suggestion! I haven't seen stacking chairs with a base like that. It does sound as if they'd be more stable than ones with four little feet. We -- the girl, her mother, and I -- just have a mental image of her leaning her weight on the back of a chair and the feet slipping away as the chair back gets pushed downwards. We're still hoping to find an ice walker with the top bar she wants, the U shape curving around the front of her, but the legs splayed out to the sides for balance instead of straight up and down like regular walkers. The way the wheels on paralympics racing wheelchairs are close to the body at the top and slope outward at the bottom. If they make chairs like that, surely somebody makes walkers similar. (Now I can see myself phoning the Paralympics people. Too many years as a librarian, where you're trained to never give up on a reference question . You're just not allowed to make a bit of a half-hearted search and then tell the patron, "Gee, I can't find anything, sorry". )

 

[Vicki7]

I am involved in Inclusive Skating (I'm visually impaired) but the biggest thing is safety. Walkers do work but aren't ideal - one of our skaters used her own until Inclusive Skating donated one of the skate frames to our rink: https://tykeskater.com/ It's now used by multiple skaters as it's height adjustable - and we're talking a skater under 5 feet tall and a lady much taller than this.

The problem with walkers etc is often they affect the skating gait, and can be difficult to control as they aren't meant for the surface. The frame linked above is designed for the purpose and having had a play as part of some training, I can say it feels very stable and secure. I also experienced using it with the accessories installed, and the supports mean some weight can be taken by the arms too.

With a spinal issue I would be wary of any kind of improvised device due to the risk of a fall potentially doing more damage.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I am involved in Inclusive Skating (I'm visually impaired) but the biggest thing is safety. Walkers do work but aren't ideal - one of our skaters used her own until Inclusive Skating donated one of the skate frames to our rink: https://tykeskater.com/ It's now used by multiple skaters as it's height adjustable - and we're talking a skater under 5 feet tall and a lady much taller than this.

The problem with walkers etc is often they affect the skating gait, and can be difficult to control as they aren't meant for the surface. The frame linked above is designed for the purpose and having had a play as part of some training, I can say it feels very stable and secure. I also experienced using it with the accessories installed, and the supports mean some weight can be taken by the arms too.

With a spinal issue I would be wary of any kind of improvised device due to the risk of a fall potentially doing more damage.

That shape looks about as close to what she has in mind as any I've seen, ! And it's available in Canada (it's listed on Amazon.ca, but one of those Currently Unavailable disappointments). I think I'd seen it in a list of equipment, but without mentioning it was adjustable to adult height. And I hadn't seen a close-up photo showing that the handlebar curves, close to what she wants.

I'll send the link to her parents and let them find out the cost in Canada, because it does look about as close as we're going to get to what she wants. A personal-use review like yours means more than an advertiser's claim, so many thanks for this, @Vicki7, and for the warning about using an ordinary walker on ice, which confirmed the reservation I'd had about using one but hadn't experimented myself.

 

[NanaPat]

In case you ever do want to try skating with a chair, this is a picture of the ones we have. We have another version as well, that looks identical but the seat is slightly lower and narrower, and is padded/upholstered. I don't think the padded ones are available any more. At one point the community center had only the padded ones, then a whole bunch of the ones with the plastic seat appeared. Now we play chair roulette!

 

[Diana Delafield]

In case you ever do want to try skating with a chair, this is a picture of the ones we have. We have another version as well, that looks identical but the seat is slightly lower and narrower, and is padded/upholstered. I don't think the padded ones are available any more. At one point the community center had only the padded ones, then a whole bunch of the ones with the plastic seat appeared. Now we play chair roulette!

I like the connected legs on that, they look safer than four separate legs! I've got a couple of demonstrations to skate tomorrow and again on Monday, but once that's out of the way I'll get serious about these equipment aids. I have a Uline catalogue somewhere -- never thought of checking there for chairs. (Although I'd hope we could use theirs as examples and then find the same thing sold by another company. The American billionaire couple who own Uline are huge financial supporters of The Great Pumpkin. Not keen on giving them even a teeny bit of profit to hand over.)

 

[tstop4me]

In case you ever do want to try skating with a chair, this is a picture of the ones we have.

The opening line of the description really cracked me up:

"Tough enough for the rowdiest breakroom or cafeteria."

 

[Diana Delafield]

The opening line of the description really cracked me up:

"Tough enough for the rowdiest breakroom or cafeteria."

Somebody's been watching the movie version of Fame?

 

[tstop4me]

I wonder if the chair is also waterproof rated for a "Flashdance" scenario?

 

[NanaPat]

I like the connected legs on that, they look safer than four separate legs! I've got a couple of demonstrations to skate tomorrow and again on Monday, but once that's out of the way I'll get serious about these equipment aids. I have a Uline catalogue somewhere -- never thought of checking there for chairs. (Although I'd hope we could use theirs as examples and then find the same thing sold by another company. The American billionaire couple who own Uline are huge financial supporters of The Great Pumpkin. Not keen on giving them even a teeny bit of profit to hand over.)

I hadn't thought of you actually buying one, but sent the picture so you would recognize them when you see them. The City of Penticton owns at least a hundred of them; the City of Vancouver must own tens of thousands. They're pretty standard institutional furniture.

If I were buying something, I'd go for the Finnish ice thingy with the misleading name that actually adjusts for adults. They seem to be available at a couple of places in Canada (though unfortunately in Ontario and Quebec).

 

[Diana Delafield]

I hadn't thought of you actually buying one, but sent the picture so you would recognize them when you see them. The City of Penticton owns at least a hundred of them; the City of Vancouver must own tens of thousands. They're pretty standard institutional furniture.

If I were buying something, I'd go for the Finnish ice thingy with the misleading name that actually adjusts for adults. They seem to be available at a couple of places in Canada (though unfortunately in Ontario and Quebec).

I think that's the one she has her eye on. Her parents thought the price itself was reasonable, but want to find out if it's returnable if she tries it and it doesn't work out. I only saw her mother on the fly at the club today, but I suggested if it doesn't work for her teenager, perhaps the club would buy it from her for others to use, rather than sending it back.

I'm pretty sure I saw some chairs with legs like that one in a meeting room as I dashed past. Will look again when we're back demonstrating again tomorrow. (Today, actually, looking at the clock. Must get to bed . I don't know how skaters in shows manage doing the same programs night after night while touring.)