The Greatest Of All Time

[Magill]

Then mine would change to Yuzu, Yuna, V/M (see I can be objective folks) and ummm.... I still don't know for pairs. Maybe I need to ask people to suggest great pair programs they think I would like

Bravo for objectivity. We were asked for it.
I went with the crowd on the loose understanding of 30 years.,. If we cut it down to 30 years straight to the day, then V/M it is for ID (an honourable mention of P/C still stands for me as it is what it is... a mention of personal admiration).

 

[Mathman]

OP specifically asked posters to be objective.

Objective? Got your objective right here. Shen and Zhao won three Olympic medals, including gold in 2010, plus three world championships, three Four Continents and six Grand Prix finals, On the Grand Prix circuit they hold the distinction of having won all six of the individual Grand Prix events, Skate America, Skate Canada, Cup of Russia, NHK, Eric Bompard (France) and both the Bofrost Cup (Germany) and the Cup of China that replaced it.

Points? They were the first pairs team to score 190 points. Then they became the first pairs team to score 200 points, Then the first to score 210 points.

 

[4everchan]

We don't have to be objective, sure but at the same time totally ignoring body of work and achievements would, for me, make the whole exercise a bit... well.

And V/M, like Yuzu and Yuna, inarguably do have that body in spades.

So do other skaters

 

[4everchan]

Objectivity doesn't mean everyone will come with the same answers.

 

[TallyT]

So do other skaters

True, but it's hard to argue that V/M's list of medals, records, mosts and firsts and all isn't a cut above the pack. I'm not proposing to write them out (I did it for Yuzu, that was enough!) but they're pretty hard to find an equal for here, and that's not including the less tangibles like star quality, artistry, impact on the sport etc.

Objective? Got your objective right here. Shen and Zhao won three Olympic medals, including gold in 2010, plus three world championships, three Four Continents and six Grand Prix finals, On the Grand Prix circuit they hold the distinction of having won all six of the individual Grand Prix events, Skate America, Skate Canada, Cup of Russia, NHK, Eric Bompard (France) and both the Bofrost Cup (Germany) and the Cup of China that replaced it.

Points? They were the first pairs team to score 190 points. Then they became the first pairs team to score 200 points, Then the first to score 210 points.

I do like Shen/Zhao and in fact I suspect that it was an old and rather fuzzy video of theirs when I was searching youtube for a piece of music that actually made me look more closely at this sport in the first place (I think we do have to admit that skaters we can see in nice crisp HD video are more attractive to general fans than fuzzy, even if the latter does have Dick Button talking about them, but I'm one of those odd people who also watches fuzzy 60s tv shows)

 

[TallyT]

And it occurred to me that, while we all naturally think of the couples in pairs and ID, given that they can change... where would someone like Aljona Savchenko fit in this? There was a recent video put up on super slams (yes yes, unofficial but still incredible given that they are oh so rarely achieved) and she and Maxim Trankov were two of the four pairs skaters who've done this, but their various partners haven't. In itself it's just another stat but... can one member of a couple in a two-person discipline be a GOAT?

 

[4everchan]

True, but it's hard to argue that V/M's list of medals, records, mosts and firsts and all isn't a cut above the pack. I'm not proposing to write them out (I did it for Yuzu, that was enough!) but they're pretty hard to find an equal for here, and that's not including the less tangibles like star quality, artistry, impact on the sport etc.

Yes. Virtue and Moir are definitely the most decorated figure skaters. Look, they are MY Goats so but then, this will shock some of VM's fans (sorry buddies) Papakis and Cizeron's Fauré free dance is my ultimate favourite program ever I think....

I do like Shen/Zhao and in fact I suspect that it was an old and rather fuzzy video of theirs when I was searching youtube for a piece of music that actually made me look more closely at this sport in the first place (I think we do have to admit that skaters we can see in nice crisp HD video are more attractive to general fans than fuzzy, even if the latter does have Dick Button talking about them, but I'm one of those odd people who also watches fuzzy 60s tv shows)

They are not that old though... They competed in Vancouver 2010...

 

[4everchan]

And it occurred to me that, while we all naturally think of the couples in pairs and ID, given that they can change... where would someone like Aljona Savchenko fit in this?

One fan nominated her, alone as the pairs GOAT... I thought it was a good idea

There was a recent video put up on super slams (yes yes, unofficial but still incredible given that they are oh so rarely achieved) and she and Maxim Trankov were two of the four pairs skaters who've done this, but their various partners haven't. In itself it's just another stat but... can one member of a couple in a two-person discipline be a GOAT?

I think it's possible if they've had success with both partners, and their presence and contribution is remarkable... Artur Dimitriev is a good example.

 

[gkelly]

Yes, I was thinking of Dmitriev for last 30 years in pairs.

Going further back, Rodnina has the most Olympic golds in pairs, equal to Henie's record in singles.

 

[Mathman]

Sorry to bring up this off-topic sidebar from pages back, but I just had an epiphany and now I’m bursting to share it. The quesrion came up, “Do modern skaters ever say, “I want to skate like Ulrich Salchow?”

Salchow won his ten world championships mainly by tracing circles on the ice with great precision. Bit as for free skating, his contribution to the sport was the introduction of the rotational jump as a performance element. The Spirit of Salchow lives on in skaters like Nathan Chen and Ilia Malinin!

... body of work ...

By this criterion, I have to go back to Michelle Kwan for goat-lady. Her collection of one memorable and deeply satisfying program after another over a ten-year career remains, for ne, without peer or rival.

 

[gkelly]

Salchow won his ten world championships mainly by tracing circles on the ice with great precision. Bit as for free skating, his contribution to the sport was the introduction of the rotational jump as a performance element. The Spirit of Salchow lives on in skaters like Nathan Chen and Ilia Malinin!

Salchow introduced a specific rotational jump that bears his name. But we'd probably have to credit Axel Paulsen with introducing the concept of rotational jumps, and specifically with more than 1 rotation, over a decade earlier.

 

[Mathman]

Salchow introduced a specific rotational jump that bears his name. But we'd probably have to credit Axel Paulsen with introducing the concept of rotational jumps, and specifically with more than 1 rotation, over a decade earlier.

I think we have found our GOATS! Axel Paulsen for men and for women, Charlotte Oelschlagel, supposedly the first woman to perform this jump (in her pro routines).

 

[4everchan]

I think we have found our GOATS! Axel Paulsen for men and for women, Charlotte Oelschlagel, supposedly the first woman to perform this jump (in her pro routines).

Du, oder Sie, nicht wir

 

[Blades of Passion]

WOMEN: MICHELLE KWAN. The peerless grace, the musicality, attention to posture and position, command of space, edge control, consistency of jumps with flowing landings and not using excessive pre-rotation. The absolutely unmatched body of work. More of her performances have deeply touched my soul and made me cry than anyone else.

MEN: YUZURU HANYU. Pushed the sport technically, with REAL jump technique, while frequently maintaining beautiful and varied artistry. Able to be soft, delicate, introspective, and truly vulnerable in one moment, and then explosive and playing it up to the crowd in the next, with a magnetic sense of self. Superb longevity.

PAIRS: SUI & HAN. The ability to move as one, while showing great individual personality and a wide stylistic range, with a greater amount of agility than is usually seen in pairs skating. Stunning technical capability and great body of work. They were already pushing the boundaries of pairs skating as first-year seniors in 2012, and for an entire decade further they continued to display excellence and dominance.

DANCE: VIRTUE & MOIR. Ushered in a new era of ice dance, rising to medal contention almost instantly and staying there for over a decade. Wonderful versatility, with Scott's showboating and Tessa's controlled sensuality being trademarks, along with their shared precision. Their Moulin Rogue at 2018 Olympics has probably become the most iconic ice dance program of all time. Romantic, fiery, inspiring, epic. 2011 Worlds Free Dance and 2014 Short Dance are personal favorites, also their 2009 Free Dance; unfortunate that both of free dances weren't able to be 100% perfected, because of injuries those seasons.

 

[NanaPat]

Then mine would change to Yuzu, Yuna, V/M (see I can be objective folks) and ummm.... I still don't know for pairs. Maybe I need to ask people to suggest great pair programs they think I would like

My initial thoughts are the ones you have: Hanyu, Yuna, and Virtue/Moir but blanking on the pair. But since someone has pointed out that Shen/Zhou fit the time frame, it definitely has to be them. I definitely go for longevity and impact.

At one time I thought Nathan could supplant Hanyu as male singles GOAT, but he moved on too soon for me. Hmm, maybe I should loosen up a bit on the longevity thing.

 

[4everchan]

My initial thoughts are the ones you have: Hanyu, Yuna, and Virtue/Moir but blanking on the pair. But since someone has pointed out that Shen/Zhou fit the time frame, it definitely has to be them. I definitely go for longevity and impact.

At one time I thought Nathan could supplant Hanyu as male singles GOAT, but he moved on too soon for me. Hmm, maybe I should loosen up a bit on the longevity thing.

Nathan competed at two Olympics... that's usually good longevity in the skating world 3 is rarer.

 

[TallyT]

They are not that old though... They competed in Vancouver 2010...

True, but in that time video quality has gone through the roof for live recordings... or so it would seem. There are some good videos of Shen and Zhao but a lot of them are not what we now expect (some of my other earlier this millenium saves are also a bit fuzzy, I still like 'em)

I think it's possible if they've had success with both partners, and their presence and contribution is remarkable... Artur Dimitriev is a good example.

Aljona won super slam gold with three separate partners, one for juniors (WC and GPF) and two for seniors. Which when you think about it, how she must have had to adapt each time, is pretty damn amazing.

 

[Magill]

Aljona won super slam gold with three separate partners, one for juniors (WC and GPF) and two for seniors. Which when you think about it, how she must have had to adapt each time, is pretty damn amazing.

Here's a great video on all super slam winners and some of their stats - for those who still seek an inspiration to make up their minds or who just want to reminisce

 

[4everchan]

True, but in that time video quality has gone through the roof for live recordings... or so it would seem. There are some good videos of Shen and Zhao but a lot of them are not what we now expect (some of my other earlier this millenium saves are also a bit fuzzy, I still like 'em)

we are spoiled... I listen to a lot of old recordings by great musicians so I guess I am used to it in both sound and image...

Aljona won super slam gold with three separate partners, one for juniors (WC and GPF) and two for seniors. Which when you think about it, how she must have had to adapt each time, is pretty damn amazing.

No need to sell me on Aliona's athletic ability. Bruno Massot, her last partner didn't have very nice things to say about her. So for those who are looking for a GOAT to be perfect on and off the ice, it may be a controversial choice

 

[Mathman]

@ Blades of Passion
Well- and succinctly explicated.

Did you move to France?