Music rights and USFSA rules

[TallyT]

There ISN'T any "cash in hand". I am talking about copywrite holders blocking music on a youtube skating video. They get nothing out of it. All it does is hurt themselves, and the audience.

They block it because the licences for everyone, not just skaters, who want to use their music is part (possibly a small part, but a part) of their professional income. I mean, can we expect them to do all that work in creating, producing, marketing etc but then just give it away for free to all and sundry? If everyone who wants gets to use this pop band or that orchestra's performaances - their professional property - for free (while, I might add, charging entrance fees for the audience to watch) then we'd see the already precarious music industry collapse even further. From their point of view, skaters aren't some special group who deserve free access, any more than gymnasts, online reaction channels, TV channels, influencers and livestreamers of all walks of life. The camera work and the rinks, the costumes and the lessons.... no one expects them to get them for free, do they?

(Also, in case it hasn't been mentioned, it's simply illegal, even if the skaters never knew and it's been done for years now. We don't get to go around blithely breaking any law we happen to disagree with - or at least if we do, and everyone who pirated movies did after all - and then complain when the law catches up with us.)

 

[Blades of Passion]

You can't squeeze blood out of a stone. People should seek to get money out of others who actually have it. Make sure the big entities are paying up for using your product. Don't go after smaller, fellow artists who are essentially providing free advertising. To begin with, a music owner can already get money from a youtube video that uses their music! Any revenue generated by the video, they are able to gain a portion of. Blocking the music from being used cuts off that possible revenue.

If it's a question of not wanting your music used in an undesirable way, that's completely valid. But that's not even how it works with mass licensing. There's no artistic integrity in saying "as long as a big upfront fee is paid to me, I don't care how my music is used".

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I'll just leave this riiiiiiiiight here.

https://supreme.findlaw.com/legal-commentary/why-metallica-sued-napster.html

 

[TallyT]

You can't squeeze blood out of a stone. People should seek to get money out of others who actually have it. Make sure the big entities are paying up for using your product. Don't go after smaller, fellow artists who are essentially providing free advertising. To begin with, a music owner can already get money from a youtube video that uses their music! Any revenue generated by the video, they are able to gain a portion of. Blocking the music from being used cuts off that possible revenue.

That's an incredibly "I'm all right Jack" way to look at it.

You still haven't answered my question. I suspect the answer would be 'no'.

If it's a question of not wanting your music used in an undesirable way, that's completely valid. But that's not even how it works with mass licensing. There's no artistic integrity in saying "as long as a big upfront fee is paid to me, I don't care how my music is used".

Artistic integrity doesn't pay the bills. And you are assuming that the musicians see Ilia Malinin or Suzy LocalSkater as wonderful artists who they are morally obliged to donate their own income to.

 

[Skating91]

If an artist is that successful, they shouldn't be worrying at all about a figure skater using their music. It's capitalism at its worst that the people who are already the most wealthy have the most power to squeeze extra pennies out of everything and block valuable contributions to society.

If figure skating was freely available to watch online, free entry or enough to cover costs to events, there would be some merit to this, but it's elitist, expensive to attend, difficult to watch because of ISU or USFS copyright, so they need to pay up or encourage skaters to use music in the public domain.

 

[Moxiejan]

The key to all of this is not money. It’s getting permission from the copyright owner (which in some cases isn’t even the writer/performer) for a certain use. In the case of using a piece of music for a major commercial ad or a political campaign, there might be a very large fee (or even no permission granted at any price). But in the case of use by a skater for competition (especially in a high-status event like the Olympics), the copyright owner might choose to grant permission with no fee at all. And then thank/promote the skater on social media (as Taylor Swift has done regarding Simone Biles’ use of her “Ready for It” for floor exercise music).

 

[4everchan]

The key to all of this is not money. It’s getting permission from the copyright owner (which in some cases isn’t even the writer/performer) for a certain use. In the case of using a piece of music for a major commercial ad or a political campaign, there might be a very large fee (or even no permission granted at any price). But in the case of use by a skater for competition (especially in a high-status event like the Olympics), the copyright owner might choose to grant permission with no fee at all. And then thank/promote the skater on social media (as Taylor Swift has done regarding Simone Biles’ use of her “Ready for It” for floor exercise music).

This happens for some artists but most register with their governing bodies (SOCAN for Canada). The governing bodies will "sell" licenses for non-commercial uses... for instance music used at the dentist, at the rink (for free public skating) and yes, even for sporting events like figure skating or plays or whatever. Artists registered will get a TINY bit amount of money. So no, it's not about the money but the permission but the permission is rarely granted on an individual basis per artist (unless that artist isn't a member of the governing body...etc) . So the permission here is granted by the governing body, through a very cheap license fee. It's late, I am Canadian, it's how it works here and explained in my wine o'clock English as a second language but I hope the nuance is clear.

Imagine, if EVERY skater had to request that permission to EVERY artist at EVERY competition... That's why governing bodies take care of this...

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I forsee team USA using music that is over 100 years old, if I'm understanding the rules correctly. Lots of Tchaikovsky and Carmen and Beethoven, music that is public domain, right?

 

[TallyT]

I forsee team USA using music that is over 100 years old, if I'm understanding the rules correctly. Lots of Tchaikovsky and Carmen and Beethoven, music that is public domain, right?

Only if they hire someone to play it especially for them. The music and the performances come under copyright law, after all, so they can't just use a Swan Lake CD without the performers' licence. And if they are - as they say - trying to attract a younger audience - as well as young skaters! - that is not gonna fly anyway.

 

[el henry]

Just for background, this is not an issue only for USFS or necessarily tied to any incompetence by USFS (I have not read any details on their efforts, the costs, or any of the particulars).

A television show I adored back in the day is, after 30 years, finally being streamed. On Peacock no less. . What was the holdup? Music rights.

‘Homicide: Life on the Street’ Finally Gets Streaming Home at Peacock

The drama starring Andre Braugher, Richard Belzer and Kyle Secor is also remastered for HD and 4K viewing.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

If you are subscribing to Peacock and are too young to remember Homicide, check it out. A stellar cast and created by the same author who later created The Wire.

 

[TallyT]

Imagine, if EVERY skater had to request that permission to EVERY artist at EVERY competition... That's why governing bodies take care of this...

To give just an idea of how much licencing work could be involved just in a competition with restricted numbers of skaters, people screencapped this from the new DVD of Yuzu's Prologue, his first solo show. One skater, 8-10 programs and incidental music, and this many music licences...


Now most skaters may only have a few to obtain (depending on how many pieces they use to create their music cut) but are not professionals and wouldn't have much idea of how to even do this (does USFS provide guidelines?) or what it might involve/cost (not only the music but the paperwork!) on a one on one basis. I know I have been arguing on this thread for the performers' rights but I'm not at all unsympathetic to the skaters, especially the majority of smaller names or locals. It's a horrible mess.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

Easy solution: ban vocal music and most classical music is public domain. Problem solved and the sport might be watchable again.

 

[Magill]

Easy solution: ban vocal music and most classical music is public domain. Problem solved and the sport might be watchable again.

As someone already mentioned earlier, each piece of music needs to be performed, and performing musicians have their rights and need to be paid, too....
Besides, I am pretty sure having only classical music would push the younger section of the public even further away from the sport... Wasn't it the very reason to actually allow contemporary hits in the first place?

 

[Diana Delafield]

As someone already mentioned earlier, each piece of music needs to be performed, and performing musicians have their rights and need to be paid, too....
Besides, I am pretty sure having only classical music would push the younger section of the public even further away from the sport... Wasn't it the very reason to actually allow contemporary hits in the first place?

My granddaughter in Scotland doesn't compete, but she and her husband/dance partner do skate in club shows. Her mother (my daughter) and sister are both professional musicians and her uncle (my younger son) composes, sings, and plays the piano. They got to wondering what happens if she were a competitor and these three recorded something my son wrote, and the song was only taped privately for her and her husband, not commercially available. Would these rules still apply if the composer and performers refused to be paid or even identified? Unlikely, I know, but Eric Radford composes for skaters, as did Mark Rowsom (Canadian pairs champion in the 1980s). Just an academic problem, but we wondered.