Is Grand Prix series ready to downsize to 5 events?

[AnAlbanyExpression]

I gather it might not be true for Spain - or some other countries, and for obvious reasons - but, as hard as it might be to imagine today - FS used to be quite a mainstream and popular winter sport in many places with a slightly colder climate .
When I was a child, "everybody" was watching it. Now they don't anymore. So, yes, it seems to have lost its mojo somewhere along the way. That's why it is so desperate in its eternal attempts to regain it as it still remembers better times were possible unlike these other small niche sports which just never were bigger...

Yeah no I get that, and it is probably necessary that some countries "carry" the rest of us along hehe. For example, I am a big fan of being able to watch everything on the ISU YT channel for free, and how lovely is that... but I bet the ISU really needs whatever money it gets from NBC (?) in the US for the broadcasting rights!

 

[JustSomeGuy]

I'm asking about understanding the context why it's important that the winners are winning and why it's also important that others didn't win. You know, like all sports with actual stakes.

For example, why is it more important right now that Wakaba Higuchi (JPN) skates clean and land her jumps and qualify for GP Final, while Loena Hendrickx (BEL) can withdraw from both her GP series assignments and not qualify for GP Final and still not be worried?

Why is it more important for Kazuki Tomono (JPN) to land all his jumps and skate clean compared to Deniss Vasiljevs (LAT), Jason Brown (USA) and Boyang Jin (CHN)?

Why does Isabeau Levito (USA) withdrawing from her second GP assignment, after she won bronze in her first GP assignment, concerning?

The argument tends to fall down to "oh so and so are judges/fed/ISU favorite and so and so are not the favorites" or "oh so and so are overscored and so and so are underscored" but I see very few information giving me context on why certain results are important for certain skaters.

Honestly, if someone in the ISU had a little more (modern) media-savvy, you could do a Soccer AM style show and stream it weekly on the ISU's YouTube channel that would genuinely help with that.

Get some experienced, knowledgeable skater with commentating experience (someone like Charlie White), plus some TV presenter type with more media experience and an engaging personality as your main hosts, plus see about getting a guest or two on every episode (even if that has to be done via Skype or whatever), have some banter, include a couple of games, have something similar in tone to the Crossbar challenge that the guests or skaters can participate in, to entertain casual fans and non-fans and offer some opportunities for meme-able moments...

I mean, I'm not a hard-core football fan, I don't watch the sport on the TV and I couldn't tell you what the current league standings are or even with certainly what league the local teams are in currently, but I still enjoyed watching Soccer Am well enough as a kid when my father put it on the TV, because it was always very accessible  to people who aren't hard-core fans. Even a few of the ongoing in-jokes from the show are recognised in the UK by people who aren't serious football fans (i.e. "Accrington Stanley... who are they?" Is far more recognised from Soccer AM than the TV advert it was inspired by... which I didn't even know existed until Soccer AM recreated it a few years ago... and is arguably more well known that the actual Accrington Stanley football team).

 

[Magill]

Yeah no I get that, and it is probably necessary that some countries "carry" the rest of us along hehe. For example, I am a big fan of being able to watch everything on the ISU YT channel for free, and how lovely is that... but I bet the ISU really needs whatever money it gets from NBC (?) in the US for the broadcasting rights!

Yeah, but to get money from broadcasting rights they need to have proper viewership numbers to be attractive for TVs which I hear is not so much of a case as the viewership is going down, not up. I guess that is why they have introduced paid streams for Challengers, probably with a hope to replace free streams with paid streams gradually, and monetize on this, but unless you have enough viewers willing to pay, this is a path leading nowhere. You might limit the viewership even further while getting no substantial money influx to significantly improve your finances anyway. So it is becoming a bit of a vicious circle. Like they say, if you have it, you get more of it, but if you don't have it, you get less and less...

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I think it is ready to drop one event. The rift is obvious, the athletes are not transfering in sufficient numbers to fill out the ranks to create meaningful competition or a good show, so, imo, it's time to consolidate until seniors pick up.

This is ridiculous. There's rough GP events (or skates) every season.

These are humans we are talking about, they can't be perfect 100%. It's unreasonable to expect that.
The unpredictability from that is what makes it interesting.

"Throw it away because it wasn't perfect". I guess that's a reflection of consumerism that dominates the world. Everything's disposable.

And your further posts make your arguments look like a case of "rose tinted spectacles" than anything else. Everything was better in the good old days- but was it really?

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Three bad competitions?
We didn't watch the same events.
Even this one wasn't bad in pairs and women. Skate Canada had an amazing dance event, men were ok in both Skate America and Canada, pairs too as far as I can tell, there were some really good skates from some women, some not so good ones...I for one have seen a lot I liked in the last three weeks, some unfortunate injuries, some surprising podiums, some really amazing programs.

Despite the "top" team having a disaster, i thought the dance event was pretty decent. The standard of even the lowest placing teams was good. I also like an "upset" result- ice dance is often way too predictable.

While i don't wish for a skater to have a bad result, i do find it strange that someone can only be entertained if the expected winner skates clean and wins all the time- that's the opposite of exciting. It's brilliant to see someone make a comeback and medal after a poor short, to see someone who screwed up at a previous compeition rally and win a medal, or to see an unexpected winner.

At Skate America, the biggest highlight for me was Kevin Aymoz winning the free skate. He did terribly at Masters, has been all over the place- then went and did that. The fact that Ilia Malinin isn't getting it all his own way, that he made some mistakes- well, that makes him all the more interesting too.

 

[TT_Fin]

When I watched GP from YouTube, I noticed there were sometimes about 3000 viewers. My town's ice hockey team sometimes sells games out, and there can be about 3000 people at the same time, their record is a little bit under 5000. And that team is not favorite to win nationals, or even medal. Here in Finland are about 300 Arenas and at winter time outdoor rinks everywhere, almost every school (expect ones at the town's centers but even some of them) have on at the back yard. But figure skating is not popular. Synchro is. Watching sold GP tickets, price is reasonable this year, but there are still plenty of room, especially for Sunday. Main reason is media. There was an ice hockey NHL game last weekend. Lot's of media articles about it, what playesr eat, what they think, who went for cold swimming etc and about the games, a lot. Figure skating GP: almost nothing. This week I have read one article about FS. It was about Evgenia who posed for a maganize wearing only bikinis two years ago.

Edit, I pressed enter too soon. Viasat bought FS right for some years here. Not any more. I suppose main reason is too small audience. They were supposed to show also EC and WC, but after one year they sold rights back to free national TV. Why I mentioned Ice hockey, commercial channels want those rights. And people watch national games though there is happening several of them every week. I don't care about Ice hockey. I been at live game once and it was enough.

 

[noskates]

Disagree about the scoring being the issue. Unless you ARE a diehard fan that's followed the sport for years, you probably don't have a clue about the scoring. What might look beautiful and good to the average eye might be full of URs, doubles instead of triples, etc. and so on and so on. In any case, I don't personally think that keeps people away. It comes down to total lack of exposure. You have to pay for Peacock and the main broadcasts are sparse and sandwiched in between football games and rife with a jillion commercials. We already have the so-called diehard fans watching skating in person and on TV. To increase crowds you have to reach the "average' viewer and that means exposure to the sport.

 

[4everchan]

Disagree about the scoring being the issue. Unless you ARE a diehard fan that's followed the sport for years, you probably don't have a clue about the scoring. What might look beautiful and good to the average eye might be full of URs, doubles instead of triples, etc. and so on and so on. In any case, I don't personally think that keeps people away. It comes down to total lack of exposure. You have to pay for Peacock and the main broadcasts are sparse and sandwiched in between football games and rife with a jillion commercials. We already have the so-called diehard fans watching skating in person and on TV. To increase crowds you have to reach the "average' viewer and that means exposure to the sport.

I really think it's both.
Exposure is for sure a must. But people need to get interested and for that, they need to have a sense of why a program is better than the other. That way, they feel invested.
Last year, I brought a friend with me for both ACI and Worlds...
She was enjoying singles a lot but then was iffy with dance.
I started calling out elements for her : spin, rotational lift, twizzles etc and in the break, explained to her the intricacy of some of the elements and their value. That was at ACI. At worlds, she remembered most of it and was truly enjoying herself.
She was a total noob who had seen skating on TV and thought it was pretty.

Now, she's invested. She bought an all-around pass for Nationals.

I lured one fan in, just like I was lured when as a kid, I watched skating on TV casually BUT really got invested when there was a special program explaining the different jumps and spins. Then I was hooked because I wanted to identify elements and know more.

You need both to create genuine fans. Exposure AND knowledge.

 

[noskates]

Maybe. But I don't know diddly squat about ice hockey or the scoring in gymnastics but I can still enjoy the game without the finer details.

 

[Arigato]

While i don't wish for a skater to have a bad result, i do find it strange that someone can only be entertained if the expected winner skates clean and wins all the time- that's the opposite of exciting. It's brilliant to see someone make a comeback and medal after a poor short, to see someone who screwed up at a previous compeition rally and win a medal, or to see an unexpected winner.

Back in 2007, I told my father the filly was going to win The Belmont Stakes. Her name was Rags to Riches. She won. I still recall the elation I felt when she did. No filly had won the event in over a hundred years. This is what sports is about! I love longs shots, comebacks, redemption, and being inspired by sport. Figure skating is no exception. I will always remember 2024 Worlds not for who won, but for who jumped up the ranks to land on the podium after being left for dead in 19th place, after the short program, to take the bronze medal. Were my father still alive, he would have loved it as much as I did.

 

[TallyT]

Most of the fans on Tiktok/Youtube of Malinin, Siao Him Fa, Trusova and other recent stars (yes, including not so recent like Yuzuru and Shoma although they can get educated by older fellow fans) do not know or give much of a toss about rules and points and whatnot, they are mostly in it for the geewhizzery (witness the number that think Trusova wuzrobbed and has the best skating skills and is the best artist evah etc) or the sheer beauty (definitely Yuzuru and Shoma and there should be more... Kevin when he is on? Anthony?) Many fans who actually follow favourite skaters and go to competitions/pay for streams are rather fuzzy on the details too.

And leaving aside the everpresent and ever-discussed business of general decline, one of the reasons I don't agree with cutting the GPs and in fact want to increase the numbers in each stage is... the skaters. Not the pretty well anointed and predictable winners who would get and then podium at their two slots anyway but the rest of the elite-but-not-quite-on-top ones, for whom a single GP spot is the greatest thing they will achieve. Come on, given the incredible hard work and money these young people pour into being a part of our sport, taking away opportunities for them to compete at a high level/internationally is not on and will reduce interest in actually being competitive skaters, and therefore the number for us to enjoy.

As I have said before, the stars cannot be stars (unless they are Yuzuru and that is mostly since he turned professional) unless they have other good skaters to win against.

 

[4everchan]

Tok tok fans are probably indeed interested in a skater or another. Of course, they couldn't care less about the sport in general. Same with some fans who flock in an out depending who comes in and out the circuit. I'm talking about fans of the sport and not fans of specific skaters.

 

[TallyT]

Tok tok fans are probably indeed interested in a skater or another. Of course, they couldn't care less about the sport in general. Same with some fans who flock in an out depending who comes in and out the circuit. I'm talking about fans of the sport and not fans of specific skaters.

And I am talking about fans per se of which there is a huge variety and range, my point was that they enjoy the skating in their own way without knowing very much.

And I don't think the ISU can afford to be that purist-picky and given the way Malinin is being pushed as the Next Big Thing I don't think they think so either. To be fair, the line between the two in any sport is more than a bit murky; my Aussie Rules mad relatives only go to the games 'their' team is playing in, only buy 'their' team's merch and whatnot, and I suspect their grasp of the finer points of how good the refereeing is gets more than a little pie-eyed when 'their' team is involved, but they do damn well support the sport. Everyone here who can go to competitions chooses them based on where they are held and who is going to be there, which is just another less blatant version of 'fans of specific skaters'.

For years the commentators on this or that competition blithely assured us all that 'the Japanese love all skaters'. Turns out that was more than a bit of a furphy....

 

[Magill]

And I am talking about fans per se of which there is a huge variety and range, my point was that they enjoy the skating in their own way without knowing very much.

And I don't think the ISU can afford to be that purist-picky and given the way Malinin is being pushed as the Next Big Thing I don't think they think so either. To be fair, the line between the two in any sport is more than a bit murky; my Aussie Rules mad relatives only go to the games 'their' team is playing in, only buy 'their' team's merch and whatnot, and I suspect their grasp of the finer points of how good the refereeing is gets more than a little pie-eyed when 'their' team is involved, but they do damn well support the sport. Everyone here who can go to competitions chooses them based on where they are held and who is going to be there, which is just another less blatant version of 'fans of specific skaters'.

For years the commentators on this or that competition blithely assured us all that 'the Japanese love all skaters'. Turns out that was more than a bit of a furphy....

Exactly. Cherish all the fans for whatever reasons they choose to be attracted and just be happy they are there while they are there.
Unless we are talking about completely casual fans, watching only occasionally, I never met a fan of figure skating who would not have any preferences between skaters and would not root for one or two this tad more than for some others, this forum included.
You wanna exclude them all from the mythic body of "fans of the sport itself", you do not have that many left and it might be time to wrap up the show and go home. Or choose to be this tad more inclusive,

 

[4everchan]

And I am talking about fans per se of which there is a huge variety and range, my point was that they enjoy the skating in their own way without knowing very much.

And I don't think the ISU can afford to be that purist-picky and given the way Malinin is being pushed as the Next Big Thing I don't think they think so either. To be fair, the line between the two in any sport is more than a bit murky; my Aussie Rules mad relatives only go to the games 'their' team is playing in, only buy 'their' team's merch and whatnot, and I suspect their grasp of the finer points of how good the refereeing is gets more than a little pie-eyed when 'their' team is involved, but they do damn well support the sport. Everyone here who can go to competitions chooses them based on where they are held and who is going to be there, which is just another less blatant version of 'fans of specific skaters'.

For years the commentators on this or that competition blithely assured us all that 'the Japanese love all skaters'. Turns out that was more than a bit of a furphy....

The ISU needs sustainable long term fans
The others are a bonus but may not be the ones to invest in for long term return.

 

[TallyT]

The ISU needs sustainable long term fans
The others are a bonus but may not be the ones to invest in for long term return.

Right now they should take anyone they can get, and some of the fans of specific skaters can develop into fans of more - I mean, I'm still here aren't I?

 

[Magill]

This reminds me of this old Jewish story of a man who was drowning among the flood and was praying to God to help him, So there were boats passing by ready to take him on but they were always too small, or too crowdy, or heading the wrong direction. So the man never got on them waiting for the perfect God-sent chariot full of angels. But then there were no more rescue boats coming, the darkness was falling and the waters were rising, So the man asked God desperately: God, why didn't you help me? And God leaned out from the clouds and said: I sent you help three times already, but you always refused.

 

[4everchan]

Right now they should take anyone they can get, and some of the fans of specific skaters can develop into fans of more - I mean, I'm still here aren't I?

Of course. There are more than one way to lure long term fans in


But I believe in education as the best way.

 

[Skating91]

I think it is ready to drop one event. The rift is obvious, the athletes are not transfering in sufficient numbers to fill out the ranks to create meaningful competition or a good show, so, imo, it's time to consolidate until seniors pick up.

Women's is missing many of the best women in the world, the lifting of the age limit has thinned out the senior ranks. In addition, the lifting of the age limit has taken a lot of the pressure of senior women to improve their skating they just don't have the same pressure to maintain their spots in senior teams. A mediocrity has seeped in.

Also, there's been a concerted campaign to push particular skaters from particular regions since after the last Olympics, and these skaters that they tried to engineer as the stars of the sport have developed bad habits because they haven't had to correct their flaws. Now they are withdrawing from tournaments because they can literally not even complete a combo any longer. The judges did these skaters are huge disservice.

Luckily the junior season has been quite compelling, owing in part to the lifting of the age rule. It's probably where the main interest lies now. There's also a quite compelling domestic senior and junior GP season running concurrently at the moment. I really encourage you to watch it if you enjoy high quality skating and competitive events.

 

[DancingCactus]

I just can't with the veiled insults and contempt for everything that isn't Russian anymore.