2024 NHK Trophy: Men's Thoughts?

[gsk8]

Yuma Kagiyama wins third NHK Trophy title

2024 NHK Trophy | Men Yuma Kagiyama of Japan took won his third NHK Trophy title on Saturday in Tokyo, Japan. Teammate Tatsuya Tsuboi took the bronze—his

www.goldenskate.com

Did not see Grassl coming! Did not see Miura slipping! Those were the two major surprises for me. Wish Tsuboi had a second event...

What are your thoughts on the Men's event? What were your favorite performances?

 

[4everchan]

Yuma is just the best skater around these days. I like many skaters, but WOW to Yuma.

Kao was brilliant in the SP.

A bit sad for Frangi who had a very tough outing. He is committed to his performance and has such positive attitude. His reaction after the SP was all smiles.

Grassl : his LP is definitely for "acquired taste" only... and despite my appreciation for his efforts, I don't like it at all. I feel like he was a bit overscored on PCS and benefited from generous calls from the TP but I congratulate him and his team as it is not easy to comeback after what seems to have been a one year suspension.

Rizzo's jumps are so quick and light. I always like watching him.

I felt Torgashev could have placed a bit higher but I also think Tsuboi deserved his medal.

 

[Mathman]

A good event for Torgashev.

 

[lariko]

I was most impressed by Torgashev, because doing two back-to-back GP without a prep and putting in a clean FS was just one of rare gifts to the audience. It's unfortunate that with 4th place he is in the 'mathematicaly impossible' group for the final Qs. But Grassl's no less impressive free brought him into contention. It is probably too tight to have Italy in GPF, but the fact that competition actually exists is a good thing. I am heartbroken for Miura, and I am going to sound like a broken record, but competing injured shouldn't be viewed as some sort of heroic right of passage and it should stop. Health first has to become a no brainer. The day I can tell if Kagiyama likes his music or doesn't like it would be a good day. Just a simple Y/N emote would be great. For all his technical sophistication, the guy might as well be mowing grass, entering data, reading train schedules while he skates. He reminds me Tutberidze's girls after AAA, proficient in all respects, heart/personality/musicality not required. Sure, Malinin doesn't bend his knees low enough and Adam has whatever troubles he has with PCSs, but I can tell from second 1 Malinin wants to skate his emo vampire lord, and Adam digs Dune. The bull on Kagiyama's back conveys more emotions about why the heck this music is playing for them than Kagiyama. He faithfully recreates choreography, but that's just not it. There gotta be something else. More. Something. Anything.

 

[rabidline]

Yuma Kagiyama wins third NHK Trophy title

2024 NHK Trophy | Men Yuma Kagiyama of Japan took won his third NHK Trophy title on Saturday in Tokyo, Japan. Teammate Tatsuya Tsuboi took the bronze—his

www.goldenskate.com

Did not see Grassl coming! Did not see Miura slipping! Those were the two major surprises for me. Wish Tsuboi had a second event...

What are your thoughts on the Men's event? What were your favorite performances?

Totally saw Grassl coming and totally saw Miura slipping (the latter I wish I didn't, but better for it to happen now instead of too close to the Olympics or even Worlds this year).

Tatsuya's name has been mentioned here and there, sometimes negatively, as someone who is getting opportunities in the form of his entry in substitute or reserve lists above other Japanese skaters. Seeing how he did here made me realize why- he is very much in form, it's not hard to imagine JSF having more confidence in him than other Japanese male skaters.

 

[gsk8]

Tatsuya's name has been mentioned here and there, sometimes negatively, as someone who is getting opportunities in the form of his entry in substitute or reserve lists above other Japanese skaters.

Which other skaters are getting "lesser" opportunities than (or because of) Tsuboi? Which opportunities?

 

[GGFan]

Tomoki and Andrew's reactions to their performances were my moments of the free. We've seen them both struggle in the past, so it was especially gratifying to see them perform well. "Prize money" indeed Andrew!

Even on an off day Jason still does little things that move me. That program is gonna be awesome when he lands his triple axels. For that music to work you cannot fall so I think unders and pops are better than falls in this case. The triple flip kick double axel sequence is gorgeous.

Yuma's program will grow over the course of the season, but the choreography is brilliant. His facial engagement can improve but I love the body movements that recur throughout. Despite the mistakes his knee bend on his landings is so satisfying. That triple flp/triple loop combo is one of my favs.

 

[paulusfr]

Shaidorov's prerotations on quads in France were called by tech panel as q. Grassl has similar technique but much uglier jumps, and here they were not called at all. I assume it means that ISU has already started to prepare fans for home Olympics for Italy.

 

[noskates]

Torgashev's skates were the highlight for me. Have watched him struggle through injury and inconsistency and he just put it all together this weekend. It was so nice to see him smiling and confident in the kiss and cry. Grassl just doesn't do it for me. Didn't care for his program, the white t shirt, etc. Really enjoyed watching Yuma skate. My heart went out to Jason though. Sad to see him having such troubles. His freeskate was a thing of beauty though (except for the dreadful 3 Axels)

 

[4everchan]

I was most impressed by Torgashev, because doing two back-to-back GP without a prep and putting in a clean FS was just one of rare gifts to the audience. It's unfortunate that with 4th place he is in the 'mathematicaly impossible' group for the final Qs. But Grassl's no less impressive free brought him into contention. It is probably too tight to have Italy in GPF, but the fact that competition actually exists is a good thing. I am heartbroken for Miura, and I am going to sound like a broken record, but competing injured shouldn't be viewed as some sort of heroic right of passage and it should stop. Health first has to become a no brainer. The day I can tell if Kagiyama likes his music or doesn't like it would be a good day. Just a simple Y/N emote would be great. For all his technical sophistication, the guy might as well be mowing grass, entering data, reading train schedules while he skates. He reminds me Tutberidze's girls after AAA, proficient in all respects, heart/personality/musicality not required. Sure, Malinin doesn't bend his knees low enough and Adam has whatever troubles he has with PCSs, but I can tell from second 1 Malinin wants to skate his emo vampire lord, and Adam digs Dune. The bull on Kagiyama's back conveys more emotions about why the heck this music is playing for them than Kagiyama. He faithfully recreates choreography, but that's just not it. There gotta be something else. More. Something. Anything.

Some skaters emote facially, others emote with their entire body, from the blade to the fingertips... Watch him again and again... or watch Patrick Chan... same deal.. many people complained Patrick didn't skate with lots of "emotion" yet, others were praising him for his flawless musicality. There are many ways to share with the public and each skater can shine as their own. Can Yuma improve ? Yes Should he become the skater he isn't ? I hope not. He is already compromising adding more quads in to be competitive... and I wish he didn't have to so we could enjoy his skating way more... His Gala number at worlds was one of the highlights for me. I had goosebumps. His powerful and smooth skating just follows the musical phrases like nobody on the circuit. Saying he could be reading train schedules is going a bit far in my humble opinion.

 

[TallyT]

His facial engagement can improve

He comes across (I am not saying he is because it can be misleading) as a relatively cool, even phlegmatic and slightly colorless personality, which in most sports is not a problem - hey, figure skating in most countries would not be a problem - but coming as he does after a series of Japanese men with in their different ways enough colour and huge personalities to light up a night sky, it's more noticeable. But he doesn't have to be like them. He is the best pure skater, plus one of the best jumpers, in the world.

I am so sorry for Kao, his SP was fabulous but an injury and an FS so often do not work (and it's all very well for us to say he shouldn't have, but when they are really driven they are going to, I still have tattered nerve endings to prove it). He's very young, I hope he can recover fully for JNats and get a Worlds berth. He's worth it.

 

[rabidline]

Which other skaters are getting "lesser" opportunities than (or because of) Tsuboi? Which opportunities?

Kazuki Tomono, he didn't get on the substitution list for the 2025 Asian Winter Games despite having a higher world ranking, higher National placement, and higher season best scores (in 2023-2024) compared to Tatsuya, who got the last substitute spot.

 

[rabidline]

Shaidorov's prerotations on quads in France were called by tech panel as q. Grassl has similar technique but much uglier jumps, and here they were not called at all. I assume it means that ISU has already started to prepare fans for home Olympics for Italy.

The reason I knew Grassl was going to finish high if he didn't fall, and then Kao's meltdown made it easier for him to win the silver... to be fair the European block maneuvering in the men's GP series side has been happening immediately after 2022 Beijing Olympics, with various other skaters thrown under the bus. (Malinin is serving as a great distraction from this).

Can't wait to see next week where Aymoz (2nd, FRA), Grassl (2nd, ITA), Cha (3rd, KOR) and Yamamoto (4th, JPN) will face each other to try locking down the spot for GPF. Depending on how Finland goes, China with Adam (FRA) and Shun (JPN) can be interesting as well...

 

[cailuj365]

My favorites were Yuma's SP and Torgashev's FS.

Everything about Yuma's SP is a 10. I even love the costume. It was my only applause of the whole men's competition. His FS feels like a 7 to me right now, and I much prefer his FS from last year, but it could be *great* by Worlds if he skates full out and clean. He seems a little bit too detached from it right now. I also think scoring 105+ in the SP and 300+ total with "easier" quads and a fall sends a big message to Ilia. Yuma is right there and doesn't even need to add the 4F or backload combos to potentially beat him in the SP. Malinin will need all his very difficult quads when they go H2H.

Torgashev was great. His SP has always been a winner, especially with the ending step sequence, but his was my favorite FS of the night. I really enjoyed the whole program, choreography, and the quality of many of his jumps (maybe even more than Yuma's that night, which is saying something). I like the calm stare down of the judges at the end of the choreo sequence. He just seems more confident this year. Even though he did not medal, he has carried himself quite well during the GP season. Great job.

OMG, my heart broke for Kao. I hate when there are tears. Maybe the injury was just too much over the last few weeks or it was just a bad day, but I hope he can recover and come back strong later. His SP is fire and completely fits him whereas the FS is a complete miss and generic. Benoit > Shae-Lynn on this one.

Grassl has a junior look to his skating (maybe it's the ballet boy costume), and the posture/head position is not pretty. His Billie Elliot ballet program is weird and disjointed, but I will give credit for uniqueness. I can see that he enjoys it.

I have not heard much about Tsuboi since his 2022 Junior Worlds bronze behind Malinin and Shaidorov, but I remember being impressed with his skating quality then. Still the same quality, but not too much of a performer yet. He has a great 4S.

Jason. Nice LP performance outside the axels. If he gets his axels working by Nationals, he deserves to be on the Worlds team.

 

[Olly96]

Watching skating competitions in Japan hits different, the atmosphere was so electric!

Absolutely delighted for Yuma and Tatsuya, great performances, well-deserved medals!
Tatsuya demonstrated immense progress in both technique and presentation and I really hope that the medal here is going to be a great motivation as he works towards Japanese Nationals!

Gutted for Kao but I hope that he now takes some time for rest and recovery and comes back stronger!

Special mention to Matteo, his performance brought me to tears. What a wonderful comeback! Hope to see him at Europeans even better!

 

[gsk8]

Kazuki Tomono, he didn't get on the substitution list for the 2025 Asian Winter Games despite having a higher world ranking, higher National placement, and higher season best scores (in 2023-2024) compared to Tatsuya, who got the last substitute spot.

Does Tomono meet all the eligibility criteria? Particularly medical? Because he did have a hip injury.

Is this the only instance of other skaters are getting "lesser" opportunities because of Tsuboi?

Just curious?

 

[lariko]

Some skaters emote facially, others emote with their entire body, from the blade to the fingertips... Watch him again and again... or watch Patrick Chan... same deal.. many people complained Patrick didn't skate with lots of "emotion" yet, others were praising him for his flawless musicality. There are many ways to share with the public and each skater can shine as their own. Can Yuma improve ? Yes Should he become the skater he isn't ? I hope not. He is already compromising adding more quads in to be competitive... and I wish he didn't have to so we could enjoy his skating way more... His Gala number at worlds was one of the highlights for me. I had goosebumps. His powerful and smooth skating just follows the musical phrases like nobody on the circuit. Saying he could be reading train schedules is going a bit far in my humble opinion.

Actually, my mom called me very excited with a way to enjoy Kagiyama's proficiency and his indisputable qualities as a pro skater. In efforts to avoid Chris' tooth-ache inducing commentary, she muted the music. Then, she said, the choreography and the glide and the landings all looked superb. The problem is that we expect the skater to respond to music and convey the response to us, so we can vibe with them. With Kagiyama he simply blocks that feed. It also doesn't help that he never seems to enthusiastically and loudly chose his own music, so we don't know what he likes in his music or character selection. I know that this doesn't really impact a score, since performance is only one of 3 PCSs scores and he does technically perform with a great diligence doing all the choreography. It is probably on time with music for people who can hear that sort of thing. Just not with his soul, and that's what we call performance between us. Like Nguyen: he went on ice, he clicked his fingers, and the audience was with him just like that. Or Uno who took one stride and you felt something. Or Rizzo who skates to whatever music that plays in the warm up because he can't not to. This is the kind of performance/musicality I get. What Kagiyama has, I don't.

 

[4everchan]

Actually, my mom called me very excited with a way to enjoy Kagiyama's proficiency and his indisputable qualities as a pro skater. In efforts to avoid Chris' tooth-ache inducing commentary, she muted the music. Then, she said, the choreography and the glide and the landings all looked superb. The problem is that we expect the skater to respond to music and convey the response to us, so we can vibe with them. With Kagiyama he simply blocks that feed. It also doesn't help that he never seems to enthusiastically and loudly chose his own music, so we don't know what he likes in his music or character selection. I know that this doesn't really impact a score, since performance is only one of 3 PCSs scores and he does technically perform with a great diligence doing all the choreography. It is probably on time with music for people who can hear that sort of thing. Just not with his soul, and that's what we call performance between us. Like Nguyen he went on ice, he licked his fingers, and the audience was with him just like that. Or Uno who took one stride and you felt something. Or Rizzo who skates to whatever music that plays in the warm up because he can't not to. This is the kind of performance/musicality I get. What Kagiyama has, I don't.

I guess I am one of these people who can hear (and feel) that sort of thing. I don't see Rizzo or Nguyen as expressing music but more as responding to it. For me, that's a major difference. I am probably biased because of my background. Responding to music can be what many will do at a concert or a club, moving to whatever is played, tapping their feet or grooving.. This is what I feel you are saying Rizzo does.
Expressing music is not the same thing. It comes from a different place and it's not just moving along the beat but it's creating movement that parallels the musical line/phrasing. I feel that some of the skaters with big, powerful and smooth skating have the best tools to achieve that, including Yuma. You won't find the expression in their face. You won't find every single beat. You will find the essence of music, the musical line.

Of course, there are people like Shoma Uno whose musicality is easier to perceive. Gosh, I miss him. But Yuma is truly special, at least for me. He is the kind of performer that invites you to the experience instead of just throwing it in your face and imposing it on you. It's more subtle. I guess it may be an acquired taste. We cannot like all the same things. We cannot perceive everything the same way.

Thank you for explaining your thoughts this way.

 

[lariko]

Of course, there are people like Shoma Uno whose musicality is easier to perceive. Gosh, I miss him

I do too. He was so insanely natural making any music make sense and flow through him. My favorite is Miura right now in Japan and I wish him the very best health and speedy recovery.

As for the rest, I am not musical, I am tone deaf and borderline amusical, so I need the skater to carry me into the music and create a character.

 

[jersey1302]

I still dont understand how Daniel didnt get an under rotation call on that 4S. It was obvious with out replay never mind with it. I also wasn’t impressed with Matteo getting only 2 points more in PCS than Daniel too. Matteo is a FAR superior skater, they shouldn’t be that close.