No, please no more David Wilson choreography!!!!! Tom Dickson gave Matt Savoie the most beautiful programs. Matt has a similar build to Evan, yet had the most wonderful fluidity to his movement that Evan lacks. So Dickson would be the perfect antidote to the (IMO warranted) critisism of the frenetic style that Evan seems so fond of.
Are Evan and Johnny going in the wrong direction?
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No, please no more David Wilson choreography!!!!! Tom Dickson gave Matt Savoie the most beautiful programs. Matt has a similar build to Evan, yet had the most wonderful fluidity to his movement that Evan lacks. So Dickson would be the perfect antidote to the (IMO warranted) critisism of the frenetic style that Evan seems so fond of.
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- Mar 25, 2008
Evan Lysacek is a grown-up. He can say no - even to Tatiana Tarasova! Though he may wish to duck first
. I think he went from one extreme - all those boring black outfits - to the other, Christmas-penguiny extreme. He needs to tone it down - Rhaphsody in Blue is an excellent opportunity for a cool retro-style outfit, which I for one think would look great. That's just the outift; I'm not that interested in his skating and haven't looked either performance up on Youtube yet. Maybe I'll be able to catch his SC skate this weekend on TV.
Johnny said in his post-SA press conference that the 3T + 3Lz was supposed to be a 3-jump combo -- I assume the 3-2-2 that was listed. And the 3F he 2-footed was supposed to be a 3F + 2T. Added to the 3A + 2T, that would be the full 3 combinations.
I know it's not what was published before SA. But that's what he said -- he didn't fail to plan but did fail to execute.
I like 3 combinations better than 2 ... but I still don't like the jump layout. I want the 3A + 3T from last year back.
Susan
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
From what we have seen last season and this time's SA, one cannot help but wondering whether Johnny's coaching team is the right one for him or not? Of course, the skater has to deliver the results no matter how good the coach is, but his programs were so washed out. If it's for the technical concerns to delute the programs for the maximum gain from technical scores, we didn't see much. The technical level is not enough for the top spot on the podium. I am getting bored on his skating last season and this. He has to change or he will be left out. I agree with the people who said that Johnny should forget about the quad, or maybe he should even forget about the gold. Just skate what he can skate the best. Find a good choreographer first. maybe someday, the Buttle miracle will happen to him too.
Evan's getting better on the technical side, and improved a little artistically. I think he has tried so hard. Johnny might technically, and Evan might artistically have reached their own potentials. So there is not much they can do.
Evan's getting better on the technical side, and improved a little artistically. I think he has tried so hard. Johnny might technically, and Evan might artistically have reached their own potentials. So there is not much they can do.
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- Jan 6, 2007
OMG! Evan really said it. I just watched the interview. But I bet he is going to bring it back at Nationals. Perhaps that's a good strategy, get comfortable with the program - and then use the break between GPF and Nationals (that's at least 6 weeks I think) to put the Quad back in. Last season he landed about 30% cleanly, which is not too bad - considering that he at other times only got -1 or -2 and no underrotation call. But of course I don't know how healthy he is, perhaps he has to be a bit more careful since the injury before Worlds.
I hope he wins. Didn't he say something about a different Quad in an interview during the summer? Perhaps Quad Salchow. The Triple Salchow is a good jump for him. I think Daisuke had the best Quad success rate last season, he never tried it in the SP though, but according to him that's going to change too.
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- Oct 27, 2006
Yes...I noticed that Johnny's costumes all tend to look the same. Is he still desigining his own costumes? I really like Kozuka. I liked him last year and i like him this year.
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- Mar 25, 2008
Either him or Brian Joubert. I think Brian's problems were mostly with other jumps, and he managed to land his quads fairly consistently - and he was doing them both in the SP and the LP. I think the strategy you suggest for Evan is good... let's see what he'll do. Since Johnny's problem is UR and not inconsistency, he should re-think his strategy.
sillylionlove, Johnny is still designing his own costumes. Maybe Project Runway needs another figure skating challenge! (BTW, I did not like the dress that won the Sasha Cohen challenge).
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- Nov 2, 2006
I'm not so sure about that. In his LP at Skate America, he wasn't even close to landing the quad (even biased Scott Hamilton said so). His 3A technique is still bad, and thankfully the technical panel dinged him for the underrotated one. Both of his step sequences in the LP only received Level 2's. And he, like Johnny, failed to complete a third combo. To me, that doesn't show that he's "getting better on the technical side." The fact that he said he will stop attempting the quad sounds like he's actually going backward technically, not forward.
Having said all that, it's very early in the season, and I wouldn't count either Lysacek or Weir out of any competition.
Yes he has. Back in 2005 already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax9SmucmhEI
But not last season.
Neither would I.
Isn't Johnny's quad more like a toe axel?
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- Joined
- Jun 18, 2008
Don't forget Shawn Sawyer's elegant black number for his "Amadeus" LP!
I agree that Tom Dickson could be a good choreographer for Evan, but I'm not sure what is so "wrong" about David Wilson. True, his work may not be compatible with Evan's style, but I think he did an excellent job with Shawn Sawyer's "Amadeus", who in IMHO had the most beautiful LP at the men's SA competition
(despite the fact that I'm a fan of Johnny's, not of Shawn).
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- Joined
- Nov 2, 2006
Evan actually pre-rotates his quad more than Johnny does. So if Johnny's quad is a toe axel, then so is Evan's.
I don't want to get into an argument about this because neither one has a good quad. Between the two, Evan has thrown more quads and landed more quads, but he's also wiped out on more quads. Johnny has thrown fewer quads, but he's always managed to stay on his feet in competition (albeit two-footed). He's been called for UR twice, at 2008 Worlds and this year's SA. Neither of those jumps were blatantly UR and might have been ratified by a less nit-picky panel. The rule is a jump should be more than a 1/4 turn cheated for it to get downgraded. I don't think either of Weir's quads were more than 1/4 turn cheated (especially 2008 Worlds LP).
Basically, they both have issues with this jump. Evan has said that he will no longer attempt it. I wonder if Johnny will do the same.
ETA: After watching quite a few vids, I don't think either of them toe axel the quad. They are right into the rotation as soon as they pick in, but neither has a forward take-off. Not even close.
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- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
I think Evan has the last say on what he's going to wear.
I think it was a great idea for him to have TT work with him. It seems like he let that all fall by the wayside though and did his own thing at SA.
Dee
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
What I said in the Events Section. I believe they had reached their pinnacle in figure skating. With malice to neither, I don't see either doing much more than what they showed in Everett. Both of them know that Dai and Brian are still around and they should have come out swinging in SA. They didn't. There is Bradley (a crowd pleaser) and Abbot (quad) and a much experience learned Rippon to deal with in Cleveland. Let's look for improvements in Jand E at the Nats - not necessarily, who is better.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I'm sure you are correct. I didn't know this, and btw the temperature in an ice rink is pretty much the same all year.
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- Nov 2, 2006
I think both Johnny and Evan skated well at SA. Maybe they didn't "come out swinging" but they skated solid programs for so early in the season. Add in the pressure of the "bitter rivalry" and I think they both handled themselves really well.
If we're going to count Johnny and Evan out for the entire season due to their performances at SA, then I guess we'll have to count Joubert out as well. He skated in the French Masters (Oct. 2nd-5th) and came in 2nd behind Preaubert. Joubert fell twice in the LP and had a total competition score of 218.55. That's lower than Johnny's SA score of 225.20 and Evan's SA score of 223.21. I know that it's hard to compare scores across comps, but I have a feeling Joubert was judged more leniently at French Masters than Johnny & Evan were judged at SA.
Add to that the fact that Joubert pulled out of his next competition (Coupe de Nice - Oct. 15th-19th) due to ongoing jump problems, and I guess we can totally write him off as a lost cause for the entire season.
I hope everyone realizes that I'm being sarcastic. You simply can't say skaters are washed up after one, early season outing. Especially when they skated as solidly as Johnny and Evan did at SA. No, they weren't perfect, but they don't train to be perfect in October.
Frankly, after seeing a lot of this talk, I hope Johnny and Evan go 1-2 at Worlds. If you don't think that's a possibility, you may be in for a surprise.
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So many fair weather fans...I am shocked by all this hand-wringing (even if it does come from all the usual arm chair quarterbacks).
It was the first competion of the year and I think our boys did very, very well.
Did Brian Joubert do any better at his first competition?
As I recall he did not skate as well as Johnny or Evan did (Brian was defeated by Alban Preaubert at the French Masters competition). Both Johnny and Evan performed quads this first time out of the gate, something that's almost unheard of for the year's first competition.
Both Johnny and Evan have very complete programs with great choreography and they executed the programs with wonderful technique (again something that's unusual for any skater this early in the season). Give our boys some credit. I thought they were great.
It was the first competion of the year and I think our boys did very, very well.
Did Brian Joubert do any better at his first competition?
As I recall he did not skate as well as Johnny or Evan did (Brian was defeated by Alban Preaubert at the French Masters competition). Both Johnny and Evan performed quads this first time out of the gate, something that's almost unheard of for the year's first competition.
Both Johnny and Evan have very complete programs with great choreography and they executed the programs with wonderful technique (again something that's unusual for any skater this early in the season). Give our boys some credit. I thought they were great.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
I thought Johnny and Evan both skated good, but not great. Which really isn't a bad place to be at the start of the season. My impressions:
Evan: He seemed a little rusty--not surprising after missing Worlds last year. I don't know if Singin' in the Rain is the best choice for him. It is a big change from the dark, dramatic programs Lori Nichol did for him, which were very effective. However, I think it's good he's trying to branch out. And, as usual, he really sold the program and put everything he had into the choreography, especially at the end. Unfortunately, I think his unorthodox jump technique, especially on the quad and triple Axel, could really hurt him this year, what with the judges' current emphasis on underrotation.
Johnny: His jumps looked fairly solid, except for the quad. I feel like if Johnny's going to do the quad, he really needs to commit to it and go for it. If he can't, maybe he should drop it from the program (as some have suggested). In regard to his program and choreography . . . I must say I didn't find it a compelling package. The choreography seemed uninspired and the music dull. (And I say this despite being a huge Johnny fan.) My advice would be to scrap this program and start over. As someone else here said, Johnny is at the point in his career where every choice and decision really matters. In the pre-Olympic year, he really can't afford to have a mediocre long program (especially since he is a skater who relies more on the PCS than the TES score).
Evan: He seemed a little rusty--not surprising after missing Worlds last year. I don't know if Singin' in the Rain is the best choice for him. It is a big change from the dark, dramatic programs Lori Nichol did for him, which were very effective. However, I think it's good he's trying to branch out. And, as usual, he really sold the program and put everything he had into the choreography, especially at the end. Unfortunately, I think his unorthodox jump technique, especially on the quad and triple Axel, could really hurt him this year, what with the judges' current emphasis on underrotation.
Johnny: His jumps looked fairly solid, except for the quad. I feel like if Johnny's going to do the quad, he really needs to commit to it and go for it. If he can't, maybe he should drop it from the program (as some have suggested). In regard to his program and choreography . . . I must say I didn't find it a compelling package. The choreography seemed uninspired and the music dull. (And I say this despite being a huge Johnny fan.) My advice would be to scrap this program and start over. As someone else here said, Johnny is at the point in his career where every choice and decision really matters. In the pre-Olympic year, he really can't afford to have a mediocre long program (especially since he is a skater who relies more on the PCS than the TES score).
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