Ladies LP

[ChrisH]

I have read that Caroline brought the house down at Golden West. Are there any videos? I would like to see her performance to make a comparison.

I didn't have any luck contacting the company that video recorded the event. I gave their contact information in the Golden West Championships topic if you want to give it a shot. (Tell them you're also interested in them recording one of your events or something. )


---
In regards to Joannie's 2A+2A sequence, there was a junior lady at the US Southwest Pacific regionals (Vanessa Lam), who did clean ones in both her qualifying FS and the championship FS. Interestingly, Vanessa didn't do even one triple. So if Vanessa can do it consistently, so should Joannie.
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/events/200809/regionals-SWP/junior-details.pdf

 

[Wrlmy]

What's likely killing Zhang is poor technique on the jumps.

Everyone knows that by this point. No need to beat the dead horse repeatedly.

In regards to Joannie's 2A+2A sequence, there was a junior lady at the US Southwest Pacific regionals (Vanessa Lam), who did clean ones in both her qualifying FS and the championship FS. Interestingly, Vanessa didn't do even one triple. So if Vanessa can do it consistently, so should Joannie.
http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/events/200809/regionals-SWP/junior-details.pdf

Well, she should, but she hasn't. Maybe she needs to attempt the sequence earlier in the program.

 

[AwesomeIce]

I'll wait to hear what she says before giving any credence to the growth spurt theory, though. Caroline spends too much time on the ice every day for me to believe she isn't easily adjusting to her growth.

Plenty of skaters spend just as much time on the ice as Caroline does and still have difficulty adjusting to their growth. She's really not special in that aspect. Michelle was on the ice a lot, and she struggled a bit when she grew. We all know that Kimmie spends a lot of time training, and she's had trouble adjusting to her adult figure. It happens to the best of them.

 

[nubka]

Everyone knows that by this point. No need to beat the dead horse repeatedly.

Geeze, bekalc was just making an observation.

No need to be so grouchy about it...:sheesh:

 

[fumie_fumie]

Special thanks to Wrlmy, museksk8r for great PBP and updating the scores and placements. I know how much of a work it is (although we all do it for the fun of it ).

I will see if I can post the some summary tomorrow, after getting some good night sleep. I am too excited about Joannie winning the competition to think through my head. If I say any more at this point, I will be very annoying.

 

[Bennett]

I am sure that Caroline gets better next times. She perhaps just had a very bad day. But she's still very young and has a lot of time.

But I found Caroline's music edits underwhelming. It just did not flow well. Any thoughts?

 

[Wrlmy]

Geeze, bekalc was just making an observation.

No need to be so grouchy about it...:sheesh:

If you think that particular observation deserves special mention every page, whatever. I just don't want to see anyone focusing on any skater's negativity over and over again.

 

[immoiTW]

this season so far...

congratulation to joannie rochette
She made me a fan with her performance.

Also to Fumie, she is back!
I really think they should allow japan to have more the 3 spots
mao asada, miki ando, yukari nakano, suzuki akiko, fumie suguri...
why 2 of them should stay home?

BTW To conclude this season so far...

female veteran kill
male veteran killed

Lambiel and Buttle are so smart...

 

[R.D.]

I don't see anything horrible about that statement though. At least it's not those stupid bickering matches between Yuna and Mao fans. hwell:

 

[Wrlmy]

I am sure that Caroline gets better next times. She perhaps just had a very bad day. But she's still very young and has a lot of time.

But I found Caroline's music edits underwhelming. It just did not flow well. Any thoughts?

I agree. It just lacked excitement or flow. OTOH, I liked the edit of La bayadere. It was very similar to Alissa's back in 2005. She also placed spiral in the same place. Fortunately, they both have great spirals

She brought salchow and rotated loops. She was also capable of adding a fully rotated triple toe to her iffy flip. Her jumps are there regardless of technical issues. I believe she was too nervous or unprepared to attack the program after the letdown of her sp skate, which was reflected by her all-time-low pcs.

 

[bekalc]

If you think that particular observation deserves special mention every page, whatever. I just don't want to see anyone focusing on any skater's negativity over and over again.

Your right actually. I should have explained myself further than she has bad technique. I think that Zhang does have many wonderful qualities.. .What I was trying to say to Chris H's comment is I don't think practicing something all the time the wrong way, is going to necessarily make things better....

And the thing is that it may be to late to fix the technique if she wants to go to the Olympics next year.

 

[Bennett]

Joannie was so absolutely fantastic. Even though she has always been very well, she did not have much "it" factor. But these two programs are like Shizuka's Turandot programs. Shizuka also did not have the "it" factor but that music made her a shiny star. Hope she follows her path.

 

[Wrlmy]

Your right actually. I should have explained myself further than she has bad technique. I think that Zhang does have many wonderful qualities.. .What I was trying to say to Chris H's comment is I don't think practicing something all the time the wrong way, is going to necessarily make things better....

And the thing is that it may be to late to fix the technique if she wants to go to the Olympics next year.

I guess I was ticked off because I've never seen Caroline so let down and frustrated. I believe she needs to set a long term goal like Sochi to really work on her techniques at this moment. Having had a successful debut last year, it might be hard for her team to accept that.

 

[bekalc]

I guess I was ticked off because I've never seen Caroline so let down and frustrated. I believe she needs to set a long term goal like Sochi to really work on her techniques at this moment. Having had a successful debut last year, it might be hard for her team to accept that.

Heck, she might make the Olympics and worlds this year with that technique. But win medals/ Championships? It's the catch twenty two.

Now, Lu Chen, had good techniquie and power in her skating, so it's hard for me to completely blame the coach because it's clear she can teach the basics. But what I don't understand is why Caroline's technique wasn't dealt with YEARS ago.

 

[Bennett]

Now, Lu Chen, had good techniquie and power in her skating, so it's hard for me to completely blame the coach because it's clear she can teach the basics. But what I don't understand is why Caroline's technique wasn't dealt with YEARS ago.

Did she have other coaches before?

Yukari has had that wrap for years. She said that her current coach, Nobuo Sato, wanted to correct it no matter what. But it was too late for him to do so. When she came to him, it was already established.

I also heard something similar from Fumie's interview about her own techniques.

I agree. It just lacked excitement or flow. OTOH, I liked the edit of La bayadere. It was very similar to Alissa's back in 2005. She also placed spiral in the same place. Fortunately, they both have great spirals

I agree with you about the latter! As for LP, perhaps the music had a bit too many different themes? Famous melodies came one after another, but the connections/transitions between pieces did not flow well. So it felt that the pieces were cut and pasted.

BTW, is it only me who cannot access ISU protocol pages? Or is it down now?

 

[Spun Silver]

As for LP, perhaps the music had a bit too many different themes? Famous melodies came one after another, but the connections/transitions between pieces did not flow well. So it felt that the pieces were cut and pasted.

I felt the same way. For anyone familiar with Sleeping Beauty (the ballet) it was mind-boggling to jump from point to point in the ballet with no rhyme or reason. Especially since at one point (at least) the choreography made a direct reference to the ballet (the little tippy-toe hops). Also, I didn't care for the use of the Rose Adagio. That is such a treacherous bit in the ballet - it makes me nervous for the skater, and I can only hope she's not familiar with the ballet! Anyhow, her program doesn't make musical sense. I know, picky picky.

Shawn Sawyer's Amadeus program didn't have that effect on me at all because the Mozart clips were all from abstract pieces (at least that's how it strikes me, not knowing Amadeus, just the original pieces), whereas Caroline's cuts correspond to specific moments in one story.

 

[fiercemao]

Heck, she might make the Olympics and worlds this year with that technique. But win medals/ Championships? It's the catch twenty two.

Now, Lu Chen, had good techniquie and power in her skating, so it's hard for me to completely blame the coach because it's clear she can teach the basics. But what I don't understand is why Caroline's technique wasn't dealt with YEARS ago.

Coach is not everything. Caroline does not have the same power as Lu Chen. IMHO, it's almost impossible for Zhang to do difficult triples with Lu's textbook technique as a very young kid. She also has jump coach other than Mingzhu Li.
Li said in past interview Caroline was more flexibible than Lu, but nowhere near as powerful/speedy as Lu.

Li is also currently coaching three little Chinese kids. According to an interview, Li commented everyone of them was quite different. Bingwa Gen was more artistic, but she's lacking power/flexible just as Caroline Zhang, another girl Kexin Zhang was very rough-around-the-edge and lacking of flexibility, but she's very powerful. Actually there's a video of this Zhang(12 yo earlier this year), the height of some of her jumps is amazing. According to her accompanying coach, this Zhang can now do five different triples with ease and also mastered 3+3 in practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ0dayejuoY

So the question really is all these little talents have strength and weakness. It's really hard to find a very balanced talent. I don't believe coach can completely convert weakness into strength.

 

[ks777]

I just watched Joannie and Fumie's programs. I love Joannies!! It reminded me of a Takeshi Honda's program! It was just amazing. Who choreographed this program? Was it shae lynn bourne? oops, it was done by Lori Nichols, I just found out. I knew it wasn't David Wilson. For some reasons, I never like David Wilson Choreography on Joannie. I am glad she tried out Lori for the first time and I think Lori did a great job!! I love this program. No wonder this program reminded me of Takeshi Honda because Takeshi's program was also choreographed by Lori.

As for Fumie, I am glad she is getting her jumps back but she didn't even attemp a salcow nor loop. She also fluzed pretty bad. I thought she was going for a 3axel and a 3/3 this season.

 

[cera]

Does anyone have the link for Alissa's lp?

 

[Medusa]

About two minutes into Zhang's program I thought: Well, not too bad. Jumps seem okay, the program might be a bit bland but that will improve, speed seems to be average. - But then she fell and suddenly stopped skating. At first I though that the sudden lack of speed had something to do with the choreo, that it was intended. But I guess it wasn't - the last two minutes of the program were so painfully slow and completely disconnected, she looked like a scared rabbit. The PCS reflected that and rightly so, in my opinion. She got 6 points more PCS at Skate America last year, 5 points more at the Junior Worlds this year.

I am glad that Suguri came back from the dead. It's really impressive. I am not really sure though that she will make the GPF. Cup of Russia is not a weak field and if Flatt and Meissner have a good outing + Kostner...