- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Taea and Johnny were great on the Kentucky Derby. They wore such outlandish hats that they put the Kentucky thoroughbred cotillion ladies to shame.
Jump hype or soap opera: what can make the general public of the U.S. fall in love with figure skating again?
- Thread starter Anna K.
- Start date
I always thought there was a reason why their dreadful commenting was being tolerated for decades.
I guess that's here: "But the general public knows them." But can they make the general public actually watch skating? Well, why should anybody even ask this question...
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
If they stopped talking about themselves and actually talked about the skating in a way that helps the viewers see the beauty of it... maybe 
they would also have to have nicer voices. I cannot listen to them... but I am blessed... I don't have to listen to them... ever
they would also have to have nicer voices. I cannot listen to them... but I am blessed... I don't have to listen to them... ever
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2022
Fortunately I have the luxury of not having to watch with their commentary. But I know of skaters whose non-skating family members will watch a competition with other commentators but will leave the room if they discover T&J are doing it. It seems they can turn off the general public rather than attracting them.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Johnny and Tara are all right. There was a little learning curve for Tara to settle in as a commentator. Yes, when she first started she overdid it -- responding to Terry Gannon's prompts -- on her on career as the youngest blah blah blah, but no harm done.
As for Johnny -- this is a delicate matter, -- but I think that he was hired to showcase how the TV network and US Figure Skating have burst out of the closet in the last couple of decades.
The NBC broadcasting team are not unkind to the skaters that they are paid to comment on, while still offering objective analysis as appropriate. I guess I am easy to please. I even liked Scott Hamiltons as a commentator. It is kind of refreshing when someone starts shrieking about the greatest performance he ever saw -- until the next one!
As for Johnny -- this is a delicate matter, -- but I think that he was hired to showcase how the TV network and US Figure Skating have burst out of the closet in the last couple of decades.
The NBC broadcasting team are not unkind to the skaters that they are paid to comment on, while still offering objective analysis as appropriate. I guess I am easy to please. I even liked Scott Hamiltons as a commentator. It is kind of refreshing when someone starts shrieking about the greatest performance he ever saw -- until the next one!
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When I think of Scott Hamilton, I definitely think shrieking! Scott also got much more excited about the poor near-fall landings than he did about the beautiful ones, giving the impression that nearly (but not quite) falling was a good thing!
I am tried of how NBC treats skating like a joke instead of serious sport. Johnny and Tara are know more for their colorful outfits and outlandish behavior that their expertise in the sport. That is a huge part of the problem. Before I got Peacock I had to put up with their nonsense, when I finally allowed the main ISU broadcast it was revelation because Mark and Ted truly cares about the sport and said nice things about Ilia for a change. I remember in the 90,'s the Olympics on CBS with Scott Hamilton who treated the sport and event with respect, yes there a slight amount of personal gain many of the best skaters wound up in "Stars on Ice" which he ran/owned, but you could tell that he truly cared about the sport. Older fans who are not technologically literate have to put up with Johnny and Tara and near disdain for skating period. This along with NBC need to create some sort drama culminated with this year Nationals with this crazy mash up of combining the Free Dance and the Men's short program in such a way that even I missed it because I could not figure out when the last group for the men was actually on. Then for the cherry on top of the insanity of the day NBC hooked heart monitors not on the athletes themselves but on their coaches including Ilia's father to see their heart rates while their students skated for what purpose I will never know. Imagine a first time viewer stumbling on to this insanity that was taking place on NBC, the main broadcast channel, do you think they will take the sport seriously if they turn the skating back on ever again. The lack of respect for the sport is what killing it. NBC turning the premier figure skating event in the United States into a three ring circus on National Television no less is creating a massive amount of damage to the sports credibility. I do not blame the athletes for this . I blame NBC and their need to create theater and their desire turn the Olympic Sports into a version of reality television is huge part of the problem. What's worse is the IOC just signed a contract with NBC/Universal for the broadcast rights for the Olympics though 2036 games which probably means we stuck with this for the foreseeable future because USOC is going to put enormous amount of pressure on the USFS, and the rest of the of the national federations for their respective Olympic Sports, to sign the new contracts with NBC eventhough everybody knows how lousy their coverage is of their respective sports. It stinks that why I hope that maybe Ilia will become popular enough that he may be able to strengthen the hand of USFS to demand better treatment or find another broadcaster to show the events outside of the Olympics because NBC is doing everything in their power to kill the sport and something needs to be done about that.
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I might be mistaking but wasn't Dick Button, just like Scott Hamilton, an owner or a co-owner of an ice show enterprise?
Then, this is like Simon Cowell's opinion vs a retired stars opinion on X Factor: no matter how smart or funny the retired star is, we all know who owns the record company and can give our fave a million dollar contract. If everybody knows that this little girl has come from a provincial ice rink and now the big bosses applaud her and she will come out of this event as a new star, this is an entirely different reality show vibe compared to heart monitors for skating parents.
I do support the development of show skating in all countries with all my hands and feet but there are factors that make a long tour organization easier in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world: it is a big country, good logistics, no language barrier, many big cities with wealthy citizens who are in for entertainment. And the tour needs to be long if the touring artists want to pay for their pensions. However, if the sport doesn't have mainstream popularity or even has a "boring" reputation in the U.S., then who will buy the tickets for a show associated with this sport? Disney on Ice can't feed everyone.
Then, this is like Simon Cowell's opinion vs a retired stars opinion on X Factor: no matter how smart or funny the retired star is, we all know who owns the record company and can give our fave a million dollar contract. If everybody knows that this little girl has come from a provincial ice rink and now the big bosses applaud her and she will come out of this event as a new star, this is an entirely different reality show vibe compared to heart monitors for skating parents.
It used to make a big financial difference because, when figure skating had mainstream popularity in the U.S., skaters from all around the skating world - from Europe, Russia, Japan and, of course, Canada - came to the U.S. to sign contracts and make money with shows. There was something for all levels. Like, if you are an Olympic champion, you go to Stars on Ice; if you are a champion of Latvia, you go to Disney on Ice
I do support the development of show skating in all countries with all my hands and feet but there are factors that make a long tour organization easier in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world: it is a big country, good logistics, no language barrier, many big cities with wealthy citizens who are in for entertainment. And the tour needs to be long if the touring artists want to pay for their pensions. However, if the sport doesn't have mainstream popularity or even has a "boring" reputation in the U.S., then who will buy the tickets for a show associated with this sport? Disney on Ice can't feed everyone.
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- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
Johnny at least knows figure skating and why a jump doesn't work and many of the finer points of the sport. Tara just likes to hear herself talk and very rarely has anything contributory other than the constant GOE explanation which I would think many of us on this board could do the same. Before that she nattered on and on and on about quads - who had them, who didn't. I almost never watch the major networks but prefer to watch Peacock as the commentators (other than Ashley Wagner who NEVER shuts up) are much better, don't talk over the music, are always supportive of the skaters, and provide good explanations. I also might be one of the very few who didnt' care for Uncle Dick. I think he was very prejudiced against some skaters, was steeped in his own era and hadn't kept up with the changing sport, and often overly negative.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
Neither. People can appreciate skating for skating's sake. But someone needs to point it out to them. Someone who is already a fan. Someone who will make a comment but then let them watch for themselves. TTJ either explain too much or not enough. They talk far too much. I have a personal story about this.
I have a good real-life friend whom I have, only this season, become brave enough to start showing some of my favorite current programs to. I do show her NBC if it's available since it comes to my DVR and no HDMI is needed. But I usually say to her, "Don't listen to the commentary (TTJ)." I pre-decide what programs to show her and what I am going to say about those programs. I am her commentator and point out what I appreciate about a skater (and then I stay quiet to let her watch). None of it is live so I can pause, rewind, and fast forward as needed. For the programs not on my DVR I use a laptop and HDMI cable plugged into my TV. (These require the extra step of downloading and extracting them first; I realize not everyone can or wants to do this). The things I point out to her are the skating skills and spins and footwork and choreography, because that's what I personally care about most. Meaning, those are the aspects she then focuses on. She watches some skating during the Olympics but knows nothing about the sport. I do not try to explain jumps to her, other than "this one has 4 revolutions and those have 3." Nor do I explain the technicalities of edges or footwork or transitions. And the scoring? I don't try that either.
For Mone Chiba's SP 2A this season, I said to her, "Mone holds the landing edge for a full circle after she lands," and my friend was able to understand that. Same for the spiral after Rino's SP 2A. For Rino's FS, I told her to watch Rino's edges and how everything flows together. I believe I highlighted Rino's outside edge into forward loop too. I say the names of elements I am highlighting, and I don't expect my friend to remember them, but it's quickest to call something by its name and move on.
I show my friend programs in person and we are one-on-one with each other. She comes over to my house. I told her about how moving Legacy on Ice was and said, "If you don't mind crying together, we can watch it together." She came over and we watched the whole thing together (I skipped the non-skating bits and I was planning on skipping the glowing skaters but at the last moment I decided we needed the comic relief). She loved watching LOI with me! I explained to her what I loved about the show and she agreed with me. She enjoyed seeing the skaters not worrying about competing and just skating to skate. She said "Woah" for things like 3Ts and 3Fs and Biellmanns and Ina Bauers, things that are so commonplace for us as people on GS. It reminded me how amazing even the simplest skating things seem to a newbie. Again, I had watched LOI already and knew what I wanted to emphasize to her. I let her soak in the atmosphere like we all did. I pointed out that the cameraperson (Jordan Cowan) was on the ice, and she agreed with me that that made a huge difference in making her feel like she was right there. You see the details differently that close up. And she loved having no commentary except mine.
Side Comment: When Johnny Weir skated out to perform at LOI, she said, "Oh, he's the commentator," and I explained how he came out of retirement just for this. She was impressed with his LOI performance.
All this to say, I am now my friend's curator of skating content. My whole premise is simply, "These are my favorites and I'll tell you/show you why I like them." She does have Peacock and I will tell her about Worlds, but the segments are so long and randomly timed and she knows little about the skaters, and she has two young daughters, so I doubt she'll watch anything there. She wishes Peacock would leave streams up. (I told her exactly how I could show her LOI). After Worlds, I will show her programs I liked and we'll gush about them. I don't need figure skating to be popular. I am, however, enjoying sharing some skating with one of my good friends, in person, in real life. The one-on-one aspect makes it fun. She watches with different eyes than I do. And in so doing I remember, this really is an incredible sport that we love.
I have a good real-life friend whom I have, only this season, become brave enough to start showing some of my favorite current programs to. I do show her NBC if it's available since it comes to my DVR and no HDMI is needed. But I usually say to her, "Don't listen to the commentary (TTJ)." I pre-decide what programs to show her and what I am going to say about those programs. I am her commentator and point out what I appreciate about a skater (and then I stay quiet to let her watch). None of it is live so I can pause, rewind, and fast forward as needed. For the programs not on my DVR I use a laptop and HDMI cable plugged into my TV. (These require the extra step of downloading and extracting them first; I realize not everyone can or wants to do this). The things I point out to her are the skating skills and spins and footwork and choreography, because that's what I personally care about most. Meaning, those are the aspects she then focuses on. She watches some skating during the Olympics but knows nothing about the sport. I do not try to explain jumps to her, other than "this one has 4 revolutions and those have 3." Nor do I explain the technicalities of edges or footwork or transitions. And the scoring? I don't try that either.
For Mone Chiba's SP 2A this season, I said to her, "Mone holds the landing edge for a full circle after she lands," and my friend was able to understand that. Same for the spiral after Rino's SP 2A. For Rino's FS, I told her to watch Rino's edges and how everything flows together. I believe I highlighted Rino's outside edge into forward loop too. I say the names of elements I am highlighting, and I don't expect my friend to remember them, but it's quickest to call something by its name and move on.
I show my friend programs in person and we are one-on-one with each other. She comes over to my house. I told her about how moving Legacy on Ice was and said, "If you don't mind crying together, we can watch it together." She came over and we watched the whole thing together (I skipped the non-skating bits and I was planning on skipping the glowing skaters but at the last moment I decided we needed the comic relief). She loved watching LOI with me! I explained to her what I loved about the show and she agreed with me. She enjoyed seeing the skaters not worrying about competing and just skating to skate. She said "Woah" for things like 3Ts and 3Fs and Biellmanns and Ina Bauers, things that are so commonplace for us as people on GS. It reminded me how amazing even the simplest skating things seem to a newbie. Again, I had watched LOI already and knew what I wanted to emphasize to her. I let her soak in the atmosphere like we all did. I pointed out that the cameraperson (Jordan Cowan) was on the ice, and she agreed with me that that made a huge difference in making her feel like she was right there. You see the details differently that close up. And she loved having no commentary except mine.
Side Comment: When Johnny Weir skated out to perform at LOI, she said, "Oh, he's the commentator," and I explained how he came out of retirement just for this. She was impressed with his LOI performance.
All this to say, I am now my friend's curator of skating content. My whole premise is simply, "These are my favorites and I'll tell you/show you why I like them." She does have Peacock and I will tell her about Worlds, but the segments are so long and randomly timed and she knows little about the skaters, and she has two young daughters, so I doubt she'll watch anything there. She wishes Peacock would leave streams up. (I told her exactly how I could show her LOI). After Worlds, I will show her programs I liked and we'll gush about them. I don't need figure skating to be popular. I am, however, enjoying sharing some skating with one of my good friends, in person, in real life. The one-on-one aspect makes it fun. She watches with different eyes than I do. And in so doing I remember, this really is an incredible sport that we love.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Dick Button owned a production company that produced the World Pro (nickname "Landover" after the venue in Landover, Maryland, USA -- although the very first show was held in Japan in 1973.) This was basically a made-for (US) TV show and they made their noney mostly from television rights and corporate sponsorships. Button started the competitions with the admitted aim of cashing in on the recent retirement of the immensely popular Janet Lynn. (Lynn won the first two and Dorothy Hamill won the next four. Later Kristi Yamaguchi won three.)
The performances were generally solid high class entertainment with enough serious sports content to be considered a genuine and prestigious competition, but of course only a tiny handful of superstars were ever invited and it was a once-a-year event rather than a touring show with multiple stops.
In 1998 the ISU moved in and declared that thenceforth the show would be a "pro-am" under ISU jurisdiction and rules. I don't know what the ISU offered Dick Button in exchange -- maybe he just saw that the enterprise was in decline under the traditional format anyway. The winners of the "World Pro" in 1998 were Olympic eligibles Michele Kwan (Michelle was at her peak and gave two pf the most outstanding performances of her entire career) and for the men Alexei Yagudin (although pro Kurt Browning gave Yagudin a run for his money, winning the l"artistic program" with his iconic "clown" routine.) Two tears later the show went out of business. In the main, the pro stars balked at going up against current ISU world champions on the ISU's turf.
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- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
We'll see if there is any uptick of popularity in States, if Amber Glenn wins the worlds. She is a woman, an old-timer, and has a triple axel. That's basically US fans' kryptonite, and that's how they see figure skating from my observations on the forum. I mean, her only possible drawback in US fans' eyes is that she is not Gracie Gold or Michelle Kwan.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I wish you're right. Some US fans may not like her openness about LGBTQ matters...
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
Quoting myself to add that by sharing skating in the way I described, I am choosing to share it according to my own preferences. But I think that's best. That way you can speak passionately about the sport instead of complaining about things you don't like. Results-wise I stay factual: "Jimmy got 3rd place." If I don't enjoy a program, I simply don't share it with my friend, simple as that.
Even back in the days when program videos would stay online longer, and sharing YouTube videos was actually practical, I rarely shared a program with any of my real-life friends unless I really truly loved it. So I have always been selective in what I share. Some people like to share everything in skating; I want to share only what I love. If that's shaping someone's skating fandom in my own image, so be it. I love being positive about skating, not negative.
I am undecided about showing her Shaidorov's FS at 4CC. The program does absolutely nothing for me, but his jumps are probably the best I've ever seen, so I might show her and be like, "Look at those jumps!" Plus we would laugh together over the wrong music coming on. And then I'd show her his gala and say, "I wish he would show that much personality in competition."
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- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
Yes this is part of it. Another part is that in the U.S. certain people have an apoplexy about male figure skaters and want to cancel the sport. It doesn’t fit into a traditional view of gender roles and makes them uncomfortable.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
I think they often want a rival they can easily hate. It is a Winner or Loser mentality, rather than there are 3 medals.
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- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
I wonder how much extra stress current policy changes have caused her and others.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
I am no fan of NBC or their commentators (I have a LOT of downloaded skating videos and just about everyone is better to listen to) but
is rather silly, don't you think? NBC are simply trying to make money, and that at a time when TV/media companies are really having to do the hard yards against a current drive away from conventional viewing/entertainment. If they show a distinct lack of faith in the simple act of showing skaters doing what skaters do... that's a commercial decision. And it's quite possible that Johnny and Tara are actually bigger draws for the general public than the skaters (not a thought that gives me any pleasure, no).
There are popular and quite economically sound sports that do perfectly well without this or that of the 'big' nations, even the US....
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2022
Check the sub-forums here on GS for artistic roller skating and rhythmic gymnastics for confirmation of that. There's also synchro swimming (or whatever they call themselves these days -- I only watch it in the Olympics), acrobatic gymnastics, dancesport (athletic ballroom dance with lifts etc), circus sports like trapeze...... All of them have competitive circuits, all are expensive for their participants, and each has a small but intense fan following. But mainstream? None of them, yet they survive in their own little bubbles.
