2025 Worlds: Ice Dance thoughts and comments

[gsk8]

The Italians were devastated. It was so close. Did the judges get it right? Guignard noted that she didn't think that the free dance was liked very much in general. While sharp, it doesn't grab and connect with the audience the way other programs do, unfortunately.

I love Smart and Dieck's free dance. Following it through the season, it really pulled me in. This time it left goosebumps! They are 50/50 at keeping it for next season. What say you?

Lots of other great performances, but it was heartbreaking that Reed and Ambrulevicius didn't make the FD. Glad Turkkila and Versluis bounced back!

What are your thoughts on the event? What were your favorite programs? Who showed the most improvement?

As always, recaps contain quotes from the skaters. Enjoy!

Chock and Bates win third consecutive World title

2025 World Figure Skating Championships: Ice Dance USA's Madison Chock and Evan Bates took their third consecutive world title on Saturday in Boston,

www.goldenskate.com

 

[4everchan]

I have many thoughts and some are perhaps... provocative...

I am not going to make any friends here : the Dune program is fun and very well choreographed but to me it is simpler than most and shouldn't have scored higher than the skaters abilities. I find it dangerous now that judges are evaluating programs rather than skating... the opposite end of this would be the Italians very kitsch Robots who scored below their ability (though in this event, they were also shaky and that wasn't the case for Olivia and Tim who skated very well).... In the same vein, was LaLa's FD too inhibited to give them the scores their talent deserves ?

I have been a hardcore fan of LaLa since they emerged in junior.. for me, they started as local skaters... before they hit GS recognition

I even gave them their nickname...

So, I have looked at the scoresheet and it seems like Eastern European judges block voted against them, while favouring Davis and Smolkin. Just an observation not a conspiracy theory.

So, I hope that we are not back to 1988-2006 kind of judging for ice dance... that would be very heartbreaking for me as a fan.

That's all I will say for now

 

[ladyjane]

Ice Dancing is the difficult one for me in scoring. Sure, I can see the difference between a good Dance and a lesser one, but how it translates into points is a bit more difficult to me. And sometimes it is just incomprehensible: why were Christina and Anthony better scored than Marjorie and Zachary? Don't get it. I felt really sorry for the Lithuanians who missed the FD by 0.01 point. Having said that, I was glad to see Juulia and Matthias' tango even so (and they really got some redemption on that). I just love the other Finns too with their FD. Olivia and Tim were superb (I believe they even got a small bronze medal for their FD). I was pleased for Lilah and Lewis, but I would not have put them in 3rd. I find it difficult to judge between Piper/Paul and Madison/Evan who both have lovely programmes. The order is probably the judges' preference. Phebe's dress in the short was a particular highlight for me (if that makes me shallow, so be it). I love both Czech pairs, but they weren't as sharp as I'm used to from them. I can't help it but I just don't care so much for Diana and Gleb. I liked the former relatively succesfull couple from Georgia much better (just a personal view). I always enjoy Alicia and Paul, so it's a shame they were only 20th. I also love Hannah and Ye who seem to be stagnating a bit.

To be honest, ID is the one discipline where I enjoy all the programmes, even the lesser scoring ones!

 

[gsk8]

I have many thoughts and some are perhaps... provocative...

Noooo, you?

I have been a hardcore fan of LaLa ... before they hit GS recognition

I beg to differ

 

[4everchan]

Noooo, you?



I beg to differ

I was following them when they were local skaters but that was a long time ago and I wasn't on GS... so maybe people talked about them here already when they were novices ?

 

[SkatersWaltz]

I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ice dance scoring. I think it’s some of the most egregious scoring I’ve seen in a long time.

 

[FSFan1999]

I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ice dance scoring. I think it’s some of the most egregious scoring I’ve seen in a long time.

Not only that, but looking over skatingscores... almost no judges are in agreement over most of the placements. To me I guess it's maybe different countries politically pushing for after a number of teams retire (or the Olympics Or trading scores for the team event)

 

[Mathman]

Kind of a side note, but on the NBC broadcast with Gabriella Papadakis and Johnny Weir commentating, they brought up the point about why ice dance is so reputation-based and wait-your-turn.

This is always the case in "artistic" sports. It is not slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am based on one performance. If you are an ice dancer, you have to bring the patience, the perseverance and the commitment to developing a partnership, however incremental, to the arc of your career.

This is also true in ballroom dancing, equestrian (Johnny's other sport), dog showing, etc. Nobody starts at the top, no matter how pretty your dog is.

(Perhaps there is a little bit of irony here in that Papadakis and Cizeron were more the exception than the rule. They did break in with a flurry.)

 

[FSFan1999]

Kind of a side note, but on the NBC broadcast with Gabriella Papadakis and Johnny Weir commentating, they brought up the point about why ice dance is so reputation-based and wait-your-turn.

This is always the case in "artistic" sports. It is not slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am based on one performance. If you are an ice dancer, you have to bring the patience, the perseverance and the commitment to developing a partnership, however incremental, to the arc of your career.

This is also true in ballroom dancing, equestrian (Johnny's other sport), dog showing, etc. Nobody starts at the top.

(Perhaps there is a little bit of irony here in that Papadakis and Cizeron were more the exception than the rule. They did break in with a flurry.)

The problem is ice dance has become less and less technical with the way it's scored, and with more and more choreo elements it is really ruining the judging. Tessa and Scott had plenty of choreography before choreo elements were a thing. Most of my favourite programs in general were before 2018...

Really, it's become less about a sport, and more about "putting on a show". And I respect, it's a good show. But I wish we could rewind the rules and judging a few years.

 

[4everchan]

Kind of a side note, but on the NBC broadcast with Gabriella Papadakis and Johnny Weir commentating, they brought up the point about why ice dance is so reputation-based and wait-your-turn.

This is always the case in "artistic" sports. It is not slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am based on one performance. If you are an ice dancer, you have to bring the patience, the perseverance and the commitment to developing a partnership, however incremental, to the arc of your career.

This is also true in ballroom dancing, equestrian (Johnny's other sport), dog showing, etc. Nobody starts at the top, no matter how pretty your dog is.

(Perhaps there is a little bit of irony here in that Papadakis and Cizeron were more the exception than the rule. They did break in with a flurry.)

it is not true in music competitions not like it's a good thing or not Novelty can be refreshing and exciting

 

[Mathman]

Actually I am more surprised that they're able to have a scoring system for ice dance at all. I confess that I am at the level of, "oh. isn't that beautiful" with an admixture of, "I know nothing about art, but I know what I like."

 

[4everchan]

Actually I am more surprised that they're able to have a scoring system for ice dance at all. I confess that I am at the level of, "oh. isn't that beautiful" with an admixture of, "I know nothing about art, but I know what I like."

I was at that level at some point, especially under the 6.0 system... but studying skating scores and protocols and learning the elements has been very enlightening for me. I can tell when some elements are well performed or not, and in some case, i know some of the features for levels... I do not know steps and turns. But it's not that hard to learn twizzle features, lifts features, and when there was a pattern dance (a real one) I would get better at spotting things. I also maybe have an advantage as I follow pulse while people only follow melodic shapes in music. So I can tell whether or not skaters are following the metric of their music. (Let's just say I have seen better renditions of 5 beats per bar)
So, I encourage anyone who feels like you have expressed, if they are interested of course, to immerse themselves into ice dance... it's crazy how much one can learn when they aspire to do so.

 

[yelyoh]

Ice Dancing is the difficult one for me in scoring. Sure, I can see the difference between a good Dance and a lesser one, but how it translates into points is a bit more difficult to me. And sometimes it is just incomprehensible: why were Christina and Anthony better scored than Marjorie and Zachary? Don't get it. I felt really sorry for the Lithuanians who missed the FD by 0.01 point. Having said that, I was glad to see Juulia and Matthias' tango even so (and they really got some redemption on that). I just love the other Finns too with their FD. Olivia and Tim were superb (I believe they even got a small bronze medal for their FD). I was pleased for Lilah and Lewis, but I would not have put them in 3rd. I find it difficult to judge between Piper/Paul and Madison/Evan who both have lovely programmes. The order is probably the judges' preference. Phebe's dress in the short was a particular highlight for me (if that makes me shallow, so be it). I love both Czech pairs, but they weren't as sharp as I'm used to from them. I can't help it but I just don't care so much for Diana and Gleb. I liked the former relatively succesfull couple from Georgia much better (just a personal view). I always enjoy Alicia and Paul, so it's a shame they were only 20th. I also love Hannah and Ye who seem to be stagnating a bit.

To be honest, ID is the one discipline where I enjoy all the programmes, even the lesser scoring ones!

Yeah I agree with a lot of this. I was really proud of all the dancers who made it to the FD. i'd give them all an honorary Pewter. I was gutted for the Lithuanians . Come on. A slip. It's ice. Nearly invalidating an entire element is wrong. I also think USA C&P should have been three placements down in the FD and P&G one up. But that's ice dance. The judging can be as slippery as the ice.

 

[yelyoh]

I was at that level at some point, especially under the 6.0 system... but studying skating scores and protocols and learning the elements has been very enlightening for me. I can tell when some elements are well performed or not, and in some case, i know some of the features for levels... I do not know steps and turns. But it's not that hard to learn twizzle features, lifts features, and when there was a pattern dance (a real one) I would get better at spotting things. I also maybe have an advantage as I follow pulse while people only follow melodic shapes in music. So I can tell whether or not skaters are following the metric of their music. (Let's just say I have seen better renditions of 5 beats per bar)
So, I encourage anyone who feels like you have expressed, if they are interested of course, to immerse themselves into ice dance... it's crazy how much one can learn when they aspire to do so.

KMT commentary helped a lot. It was a primer.

 

[4everchan]

KMT commentary helped a lot. It was a primer.

Indeed. She is great.

 

[FSFan1999]

Actually I am more surprised that they're able to have a scoring system for ice dance at all. I confess that I am at the level of, "oh. isn't that beautiful" with an admixture of, "I know nothing about art, but I know what I like."

Very simply turns, twizzles, and level features can be objectively evaluated or not, but beyond that there wil always be human bias. And that being said, tech panels don't call turns correctly often (either human error or bias).

to an extent, speed, power, edge depth and posture can be objective. A skater is fast or slow. A skater does complicated transitions or not. A skater makes big lobes on the ice, or flat. A skater has hunched shoulders or not. A skater has a stretched free leg or not.

differentiation between masterful technicians is quite tricky in some situations. But if judges could put bias aside, these aspects could be marked quite well. Even composition can (if the judges understood music and element design).

performance is impossible to evaluate objectively.
But the scoring can work well in ice dance, and has for many periods. But equally it's been terrible for many periods. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for fairer scores, and non reputational scoring. But as long as skaters have country flags, and coaches can collect country judges like pokemon, sadly it won't be the case.

And also considering the non-fans of ice dance, the casual viewers. When asking family, they often loved the least technical skaters the best. Because they watch the program, and take in the performance. Nothing else matters to them but the overall impression. So for the ISU, to get publicity, they push the skaters who can make the best overall impression for somebody who knows nothing about a sport. This also reflects into the skaters they choose to promote.

 

[TontoK]

KMT commentary helped a lot. It was a primer.

I had heard her commentary at a different competition, and this was miles and miles better.

I was disappointed when I first heard she had the gig, but if she continues in this vein, then I'm OK with that.

 

[TontoK]

Next season's RD theme has been announced. Hip hop and club music from the 90's.

In the spirit of positivity and finding joy in skating, I'll refrain from commenting on that.

 

[FSFan1999]

I had heard her commentary at a different competition, and this was miles and miles better.

I was disappointed when I first heard she had the gig, but if she continues in this vein, then I'm OK with that.

I liked that she definitely made an effort to communicate specific rules relevant to different elements with the fans. Still, I'd love an ice dance expert on the commentary panel. Maybe they can double up on Chris', and try to get Christopher Dean now he is hanging up his skates... (I can dream)

 

[4everchan]

I had heard her commentary at a different competition, and this was miles and miles better.

I was disappointed when I first heard she had the gig, but if she continues in this vein, then I'm OK with that.

lol same here... i was like damn... and then... after only one day, I was grateful... on a side note, I had recorded NBC's coverage on my DVR cause it's fun to watch on the big screen too... and well... I skipped most of it because I couldn't stand T&J's banter. Tara kept on explaining basic things like BV and GOE like it was a pre-recorded voice mail message... It was not interesting at all.