Unsharpened section of blades rusting

[MilaPang]

I bought Edea overtures with Coronation aces recently and have skated on them a total of 3 times (5hrs), and only noticed the spots after skating today. The unsharpened section of both the blades are starting to form small dots of what I assume is rust. No other part of the blades have rust on them. Should this be concerning? and how could I fix it?

 

[tstop4me]

I bought Edea overtures with Coronation aces recently and have skated on them a total of 3 times (5hrs), and only noticed the spots after skating today. The unsharpened section of both the blades are starting to form small dots of what I assume is rust. No other part of the blades have rust on them. Should this be concerning? and how could I fix it?

They don't look too bad. You can clean off the rust with a Scotch Brite scrubbie pad and some oil (such as motor oil). The rough surface is probably trapping water, so you need to take extra care in drying off those areas. Depending on the dew point, you can get condensation on your trip home from the rink. I use two towels and two pairs of soakers. At the rink, I dry off the blades with Towel A and slip on Soakers A. When I get home, I remove Soakers A. I then dry the blades off again with Towel B and slip on Soakers B.

Even though the rust is not in a critical spot, I do recommend that you remove it, since rust traps water and promotes further rust.

 

[Query]

If that doesn't work, try applying oil or grease to the blades between uses (after completely drying them off). (Including the mounting plates, and the mounting screws.)

To clarify something tstop4me implied, do not store your blades inside plastic blade guards for more than a few minutes, if at all possible. Do not put them in a car trunk, or any closed container or bag, for more time than you have to. Leave them out in a low humidity environment (e.g., your home, if you have a dehumidfier), exposed to air, whenever possible.

BTW, leaving skates in a car longer than you have to is a fairly bad idea. Especially in hot weather, because that may heat mold them into a bad shape. But also because if you have anything wet in the car, humidity can get high enough to cause rust. And some basements get very humid. If you live near salt water, that makes things a lot worse, because salt gets in the air, and encourages rust a lot.)

If you don't have good storage choices, consider oil or grease.

BTW, that part of the blade may actually be used some of the time - especially during jumps. And really good skate techs sharpen it to the extent they safely can. But if your skate tech isn't comfortable doing that, don't make them do it, or they might damage your toepick.

 

[tstop4me]

If that doesn't work, try applying oil or grease to the blades between uses (after completely drying them off). (Including the mounting plates, and the mounting screws.)

Oil or grease should be applied only if the skates are put away for extended storage, not if the skates are in regular use (assuming they are not routinely kept in a high-humidity area; but in that case, I would expect rust on other areas as well). And only on unplated plain-carbon steel surfaces. Why create an unnecessary mess?

To clarify something tstop4me implied, ...

But I didn't imply anything at all.

 

[MilaPang]

Hi! I did what you said u/tstop4me and the rust on the unsharpened area cleared up.
However, I noticed this morning that theres a dark grey section in the centre of my blades and I'm not sure if its rust or if this is normal. Sorry for all the questions.
Thank you in advance !

 

[tstop4me]

Hi! I did what you said u/tstop4me and the rust on the unsharpened area cleared up.
However, I noticed this morning that theres a dark grey section in the centre of my blades and I'm not sure if its rust or if this is normal. Sorry for all the questions. I did what you said about drying after I got home, though I don't have another pair of soakers, and left the blades exposed in my room. Maybe its because I stored my skates sideways?
Thank you in advance !

As long as the air in your home is dry, leaving the blades exposed shouldn't be a problem. I like to put on the second pair of soakers for mechanical protection: to keep the blades from getting dinged should you drop the skates or bang them against each other; and to keep the blades from damaging other surfaces, such as wooden floors. Storing them sideways shouldn't be a problem either.

From the photo, I can't see enough contrast to discern the spots. Roughly how long are they? Are they roughly the same size and position on each blade? One possibility is that they are impressions from your hard guards. Which ones do you have? Mine have a series of raised ridges and leave a series of faint patches along the blades. Purely cosmetic. Can't be sure that's your case.

If you're really concerned about rust, then wipe on a thin film of oil after the second drying at home. If you don't use a second pair of soakers, wipe off the oil before your next skate. If you use a second pair of soakers, dedicate that for at-home use, because it will pick up oil. Then wipe off the oil from the blades and switch soakers before your next skate. That should be needed only if your home has high humidity.

 

[Query]

On the left skate, one of the screws on one of the round holes in the back is a round head screw. Which means it doesn't have a countersink bottom to the head to mesh with the countersink in the hole on the mounting plate of the blades. That means it doesn't do as good a job as a a flat head screw would of holding the blade in place and proper alignment. I can't quite tell from the picture, but that screw might also be at an angle, which again means it isn't holding the blade in position as well.

A bit of odd color in some of the screws. Are those brass (or brass coated) screws? If so, I've not seen that before. Most people use steel, but tstop4me would know better than me if there are reasons not to use them.

Also, the entire backs of your blades look a bit reddish - but I can't tell if that is real or whether that is just light reflecting off something in the room. Is it?

You may not really need soakers. I think their main purpose is to prevent other things from scratching the blades (especially the edges). (Of course, if you don't carry blades carefully, you can cut yourself on the edges. Soakers might help with that. But I carry mine carefully.) But if you are careful not to let scratches happen, the soakers aren't needed. And if you don't use soakers, there is no reason to bother wiping off a light oil before your next skate. OTOH, if you use a thick oil - like motor oil - or grease, I think it would be nice to other skaters NOT to let it get onto the ice, so I would wipe that off. When I have used oil, I used a rather thin oil, like "3-in-1".

You don't need a thick coating of oil if you do use it. Just use a lightly oiled cloth. Don't put oil in your skate bag, if you have one. I used to do that, and it made a mess.

If you aren't sure about humidity, you can buy a humidity sensor for a few dollars, and check it several times over the course of a few days. (You sometimes get high humidity in houses during the Summer, especially if you use air conditioners or have shaded windows, simply because it is cooler indoors than outdoors. I don't really understand that - the air conditioner SHOULD act as a dehumidifier. Not usually a problem in the Winter, if you heat your home - if you don't have a humidifier, low humidity is more likely to be an issue then - but that doesn't hurt blades. But during the Spring, temperature varies a lot outside, so you might sometimes see it.) I think a good rule of thumb is that you want relative humidity below 50% to reduce rust formation - maybe a little lower, though that gets a bit complicated if you are worried about fine wooden cabinets or musical instruments made of wood, which shouldn't see much humidity or temperature variation. (BTW, someone I know with asthma who tries for 40-45%, because of mold & mildew - but that is complicated, because she has a violin and piano. Of course she keeps a humidity control device in her violin case.)

BTW, high humidity also makes mold and mildew on your boot more likely.

If you use a humidifier in your home, keep your boots and blades well away from it, for obvious reasons.

I admit I am currently using, as an experiment, boots with ordinary (not stainless) steel blades, and I'm not using oil. I'm just being a bit cautious about humidity.

I also admit that controlling humidity in a house just to slow rust on one pair of moderate priced figure skating blades might not be economically effective! Dehumidifiers and dehumidification costs money.

 

[MilaPang]

I have guard dog centipede skate guards. The spots are roughly 7.5cm long located roughly at the midpoint from the tail to first toepick of the blade on both blades. I've attached another photo that I think shows the contrast a bit better. I just really don't want to ruin my blades :')
I think the screws are the ones that just the Edea brand gives or something like that? The red tint is probably just the reflected light of my pink walls and curtains

 

[tstop4me]

On the left skate, one of the screws on one of the round holes in the back is a round head screw. Which means it doesn't have a countersink bottom to the head to mesh with the countersink in the hole on the mounting plate of the blades. That means it doesn't do as good a job as a a flat head screw would of holding the blade in place and proper alignment. I can't quite tell from the picture, but that screw might also be at an angle, which again means it isn't holding the blade in position as well.

Of the screws visible from the photos, they all look OK to me: Round head screws in the elongated slots; flat head screws in the countersunk round holes. Perhaps you're confounded by a reflection?

A bit of odd color in some of the screws. Are those brass (or brass coated) screws? If so, I've not seen that before. Most people use steel, but tstop4me would know better than me if there are reasons not to use them.

She's got Edea boots. Edea uses special hi-lo thread screws that they supply. According to the Edea website, the screws are fabricated from galvanized steel, which refers to steel plated with zinc. Galvanized steel typically has a silver or grey coloration. But depending on many factors (composition of steel, composition of zinc plating, galvanization process, thickness of plating, post-plating treatment ...), galvanized steel can take on a golden coloration. Edea likely prefers golden coloration for an Italian flair.

 

[tstop4me]

I have guard dog centipede skate guards. The spots are roughly 7.5cm long located roughly at the midpoint from the tail to first toepick of the blade on both blades. I've attached another photo that I think shows the contrast a bit better. I just really don't want to ruin my blades :')

I don't have a pair of those guards at hand. But check the bottoms of the insides of your guards, and see if there are regions roughly matching the spots on your blades. There is a host of other possible causes, such as some muck on the rink matting.

Right now, I don't think there's anything to worry about. After your next skating session, check your blades at the rink before you pack up to go home, and see if the spots are still there. If they come off during skating, then they are really superficial. Let me know how it turns out. For now, I would not recommend scrubbing them.

ETA: Just want to check that these spots are new. That is, they weren't there previously and could be artifacts of different surface texture from sharpening, rather than stains.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I have guard dog centipede skate guards. The spots are roughly 7.5cm long located roughly at the midpoint from the tail to first toepick of the blade on both blades. I've attached another photo that I think shows the contrast a bit better. I just really don't want to ruin my blades :')
I think the screws are the ones that just the Edea brand gives or something like that? The red tint is probably just the reflected light of my pink walls and curtains

Those type guards are not the best for figure skates. You should look into something like Rockerz skate guards . Edea has their own guards as well and they are really nice, but pricey.

 

[Query]

tstop4me, you are right. I saw the reflection of the screw from the opposite side in the runner. ,The pictures of Coronation Ace blades at www.youtube.com/watch?v=hERAR2kb_mk clarifies my error.

It's good you think none of the screws are brass, and that they are likely probably zinc coated. There are various places on the WWW, where it says brass, in contact with steel under wet conditions, causes rust because it gives the steel a positive charge, which attracts (negative) oxygen ions. In contrast, zinc helps prevent the rusting of steel in contact with it, because it gives the steel a negative charge.

Does that mean galvanized mounting screws are significantly better than stainless steel screws, in terms of blade rust? I bought stainless steel blades screws for my boots, because I thought they would be less likely to rust. Was that the wrong thing to do?

Of course there are many possible factors that encourage rust. E.g., if the rink has ice made from "hard water" (i.e., water with positively charged ions like calcium++ and magnesium++), that supposedly encourages rust. (Many indoor rinks try to soften hard water, if it is issue, because hard water also makes the ice less transparent, so you can't see the painted hockey markings as clearly, and because it also tends to make the ice less physically hard and smooth.) Incidentally, some outdoor ice, like the great lakes in the winter, tend to have hard water, which wouldn't be good for skate blades - I guess one should rinse and dry the blades afterwards. Or if the o.p. skated on outdoor ice made from frozen salt water, or on ice exposed to a salt wind, that could be even worse.

But perhaps the entire effect was caused by the use of hard guards? The o.p. hasn't said whether the hard guards were only used for a few minutes, which is probably OK, if the guards are kept clean, or whether the blades were stored in them between uses. If the latter, it could explain all the rust.

Perhaps the o.p. is particularly sensitive to rust because the blades are so new. Kind of like people noticing the slightest nick on a new car you just bought. Still, it's great that the o.p. caught it now, before it became a major problem.

 

[tstop4me]

It's good you think none of the screws are brass, and that they are likely probably zinc coated. There are various places on the WWW, where it says brass, in contact with steel under wet conditions, causes rust because it gives the steel a positive charge, which attracts (negative) oxygen ions. In contrast, zinc helps prevent the rusting of steel in contact with it, because it gives the steel a negative charge.

Does that mean galvanized mounting screws are significantly better than stainless steel screws, in terms of blade rust? I bought stainless steel blades screws for my boots, because I thought they would be less likely to rust. Was that the wrong thing to do?

ETA: Electrolytic and galvanic corrosion are sometimes used interchangeably (which has been my practice). I've checked some sources which make a distinction between galvanic (no external current source) and electrolytic (external current source). The scenarios discussed below have no external current source. To avoid confusion with some sources, I have changed "electrolytic" to "galvanic".

* You're talking about electrolytic galvanic corrosion. If you dry off your blades and boots after each session, and store them in a dry environment, electrolytic galvanic corrosion is not a substantial problem.

* Why are you concerned with the electrolytic galvanic corrosion of bare plain-carbon steel in contact with brass vs zinc? With respect to figure-skate blades, the mounting screws are in contact with the mounting plates. I've not come across mounting plates that are fabricated from bare plain-carbon steel. Of the blades that I'm aware of, mounting plates are fabricated from plated plain-carbon steel [plating is typically chrome over nickel for the better blades, or just nickel for cheaper blades], stainless steel, aluminum alloy, or titanium alloy. If you're concerned about electrolytic galvanic corrosion, you should investigate zinc-plated screws vs stainless-steel screws in contact with specific mounting plate materials.

* I'm more concerned about preserving the integrity of the screws themselves against corrosion. I personally use stainless-steel screws. I've repaired skates for friends who were careless about drying off their skates and keeping them dry. The skates had leather soles and heels, highly susceptible to water absorption and damage. The skaters taught in outdoor rinks, which often get slushy during the beginning and end of the season. The skates had plated steel screws (not Edea); plating was likely zinc, though it could have been nickel or some other material. The mounting plates (chrome-plated steel) were OK, but the screw bodies were heavily rusted when I removed them.

 

[Query]

At one point I had significant problems with rust, on blades, bolts & screws. I perhaps became somewhat overcautious about trying to prevent it. It didn't help that I've also kayaked in salt water, and have parked and camped by the ocean. Salt water is incredibly bad for all the metals I've tried, including stainless steel and aluminum. (But I never got around to trying titanium, or the most rust resistant [low carbon] stainless steels.)

Because I don't have a trained practical background like you, I frequently have to learn by making mistakes.

By the way, I'm sure you know it's not true that all blades have galvanized steel mounting plates. I'm sure you know that some use aluminum, or carbon fiber+plastic resin, and some hockey blades just use plastic.

 

[tstop4me]

By the way, I'm sure you know it's not true that all blades have galvanized steel mounting plates. I'm sure you know that some use aluminum, or carbon fiber+plastic resin, and some hockey blades just use plastic.

I'm not aware of blades that have galvanized steel mounting plates (some el-cheapo ones could I suppose). I wrote above:

Of the blades that I'm aware of, mounting plates are fabricated from plated plain-carbon steel [plating is typically chrome over nickel for the better blades, or just nickel for cheaper blades], stainless steel, aluminum alloy, or titanium alloy.

I did neglect to include the carbon-fiber composite ones.

 

[MilaPang]

I don't have a pair of those guards at hand. But check the bottoms of the insides of your guards, and see if there are regions roughly matching the spots on your blades. There is a host of other possible causes, such as some muck on the rink matting.

Right now, I don't think there's anything to worry about. After your next skating session, check your blades at the rink before you pack up to go home, and see if the spots are still there. If they come off during skating, then they are really superficial. Let me know how it turns out. For now, I would not recommend scrubbing them.

ETA: Just want to check that these spots are new. That is, they weren't there previously and could be artifacts of different surface texture from sharpening, rather than stains.

Went skating today, and the dark spots are still there. Interestingly I've noticed that under direct light the spots are lighter than the rest of the blades. My guards don't seem to have any imprints of the blades, and I only use them between the changeroom & the ice.

Could sunlight cause something like this? I store my skates on my dresser that gets a couple hours of sunlight during the day and the blades might have been exposed towards it.

I skated last Thursday and hadn't touched my skates until I noticed the spots last Saturday so the spots are relatively new. I did not receive the blades with the dark spots.

 

[tstop4me]

Went skating today, and the dark spots are still there. Interestingly I've noticed that under direct light the spots are lighter than the rest of the blades. My guards don't seem to have any imprints of the blades, and I only use them between the changeroom & the ice.

Could sunlight cause something like this? I store my skates on my dresser that gets a couple hours of sunlight during the day and the blades might have been exposed towards it.

I skated last Thursday and hadn't touched my skates until I noticed the spots last Saturday so the spots are relatively new. I did not receive the blades with the dark spots.

Not sure what the spots are. But they don't sound like rust. Direct exposure to sunlight wouldn't affect the blades, and it would be an odd coincidence that the spots would be so well matched on both blades. I would keep the skates out of direct sunlight for prolonged periods, however, because that could degrade the boots.

Just keep an eye out for any changes to the blades. But don't lose any sleep over it. Have a good skate!

ETA: There have been studies that show accelerated corrosion of steel under very humid or wet conditions when exposed to direct sunlight. But what you describe doesn't appear to be rust.

 

[Query]

BTW, did the skate tech sharpen the blade before selling it to you, or are you on the factory edges? Many people claim that the factory grind of that brand can be imperfect.

Another possibility is to ask your skate tech what the dark spot is. They might have a guess.

tstop4me: Do either of these possibilities sound plausible to you?

Maybe the skate tech or factory left a rough spot on the blade. (Hint to o.p.: does the dark spot feel any less smooth than the rest? Be careful - if you draw your finger along a sharp edge, you might cut yourself. If you are uncertain you can draw your finger along it lightly enough to avoid cutting yourself, draw your finger across the width of the blade, rather than along it.) The best skate techs I've known try to create a smooth surface on the bottom of the blade, that reflects light like a (curved) mirror.

Or maybe the skate tech or factory sharpened that part of the blade too quickly, which made it get hot, and it sort of scorched the surface, or altered the hardness or crystal structure of the surface steel. Could that make it look slightly darker?

 

[tstop4me]

BTW, did the skate tech sharpen the blade before selling it to you, or are you on the factory edges? Many people claim that the factory grind of that brand can be imperfect.

Another possibility is to ask your skate tech what the dark spot is. They might have a guess.

tstop4me: Do either of these possibilities sound plausible to you?

Maybe the skate tech or factory left a rough spot on the blade. (Hint to o.p.: does the dark spot feel any less smooth than the rest? Be careful - if you draw your finger along a sharp edge, you might cut yourself. If you are uncertain you can draw your finger along it lightly enough to avoid cutting yourself, draw your finger across the width of the blade, rather than along it.) The best skate techs I've known try to create a smooth surface on the bottom of the blade, that reflects light like a (curved) mirror.

Or maybe the skate tech or factory sharpened that part of the blade too quickly, which made it get hot, and it sort of scorched the surface, or altered the hardness or crystal structure of the surface steel. Could that make it look slightly darker?

I suggest you re-read the previous posts more carefully. I already raised the possibility that the dark spots might not be chemical stains at all, but surface artifacts arising from sharpening:

ETA: Just want to check that these spots are new. That is, they weren't there previously and could be artifacts of different surface texture from sharpening, rather than stains.

The OP responded thus:

I skated last Thursday and hadn't touched my skates until I noticed the spots last Saturday so the spots are relatively new. I did not receive the blades with the dark spots.

We have also already discussed other possible causes such as impressions from hard guards [I think you overlooked that discussion too, since you subsequently raised the issue of hard guards] and residue from rink matting. At this point, we have addressed what we can readily do over the aether; any definitive resolution would require more detailed in-person analysis. But so far I see no cause for urgency (unless there are substantial changes, the OP doesn't need a special trip to the tech and can wait for her next sharpening, e.g.), and I repeat my previous recommendation to the OP:

Just keep an eye out for any changes to the blades. But don't lose any sleep over it. Have a good skate!

 

[Query]

I did read it all.

The thing is, it's hard to imagine an even semi-competent sharpener creating a rough enough surface to create discoloration. Unless they worked way, way too fast. On the other hand, I have heard people claim that factory sharpening sometimes creates a very poor surface, in part because they do work very fast, with relatively coarse sharpening tools. Plus perhaps the people at the HD Sports factory expect pro shops and other retailers to do a touch up sharpening. But to me, such a rough surface - if and only if that is the issue - might interfere with skating, because the glide wouldn't be smooth.

Which is why I would feel for surface roughness. If that is present, I think it should be resharpened soon. But of course, if a pro shop already did a touch up sharpening, and it is rough, then that pro shop (or at least the particular skate tech who did it) can't be trusted to do a good job.

The o.p. did not mention how much that the hard guards were only used briefly until post 16. I stopped mentioning that then. In any event, the guards needn't have impressions from the blades. E.g., if the issue was water retention inside the guard wouldn't corrode the guard. I would only expect to see anything inside the guards if there was a lot of abrasive dirt - but that would probably only damage the edges, not affect the middle of the hollow. So dirt seems an unlikely explanation of this specific issue, though it is always a good idea to get rid of it to preserve the edges.

Many sources say tempering can alter the apparent color of steel. But Coronation Aces are high enough level blades that the bottom of the runner should have been rehardened at the factory - unless that was somehow done incorrectly at that particular spot, and that was somehow done on both blades.

If the person who did the last sharpening consistently uses a sharpening technique where they sharpen fastest in the middle, and they go way, way too fast, maybe it could get so hot that it re-tempers the surface in the middle. There are warnings among people who demonstrate sharpening skates online, that you should not sharpen too fast, to prevent that particular issue. (I have seen someone sharpen skates so fast, taking off a lot of metal in one pass with a very coarse wheel, that the blade itself started to glow.) If I thought that was the issue, I can't imagine wanting to bring the blades back to the same place for future sharpenings. Because an insufficiently hard blade wears out its edges much more quickly, but also because I think it is hard to work that fast and do a good job. They could easily slip and hit the toepick, or they might not take off a uniformly thick strip of metal, which would change the rocker profile. But I'm not sure how to easily detect whether excessively fast sharpening is an issue, other than to watch the skate tech work on your blades, and see if they work slowly, uniformly, and carefully. But not all shops let you watch.

(If you trace the rocker profile, and check whether it is retained, you can see profile changes - but that might not show up visibly in a single sharpening.)