Yu-Na Kim's jumps discussion (merged threads)

[chocola]

Some people think she lips, others claim her flip is perfect.

People who claim she lips are unknown people; I 'm guessing they are the ones who don't have enough knowledge in that matter, or who hate her.

People who claim her flip is perfect are great skaters and experts, except for some judges at COC. These people watched her performances in real life.

Since I'm just a regular joe, I would rather listen to the latter unless they change their opinion.

 

[axalteke]

I mentioned Kimmie just to illustrate that it is indeed possible to take off from an outside edge even if the skater uses the 3-turn. Does it mean her 3-turn entry is not "properly executed" unlike that of Yagudin, Buttle, Kim?
Well, then we can just as easily turn the "does Yu-Na lip duscussion" into "does Yu-Na excute the 3-turn properly or not?"
Some people think she lips, others claim her flip is perfect. Well, I don't think we'll come to a definitive conclusion here but I simply fail to see how your theory about the 3-turn entry should convince anyone.

If you wanna turn this Thread into some another Movie, please, I don't care!
But theory for what and on what? You want Theory for only theory in itself and on simply sighting some skating others? Please, be kind to go to the rink and find out yourself whether you can even stand on the ice with your body leaning toward in with your left foot on an outside edge! Or if you don’t want to go to the rink, at least, ask another one to do it and listen to him or her. Then you can understand this problem really better even without taking Kimmie or someone else in! Do you want just to get such theory on your Laptop with those graphic files on YOUTUBE ?

 

[enzet]

If you wanna turn this Thread into some another Movie, please, I don't care!
But theory for what and on what? You want Theory for only theory in itself and on simply sighting some skating others? Please, be kind to go to the rink and finding out yourself whether you can even stand on the ice with your body leaning toward in with your left foot on an outside edge! Or if you don’t want to go to the rink, at least ask another one to do it or listen to him or her. Then you can understand this problem really better even without taking Kimmie or someone else in! Do you want just to get such theory on your Laptop with those graphic files on YOUTUBE ?

No, I don't want any theory. You came up with one and I simply said I don't think it has anything to do with whether Yu-Na actually lips or not.

 

[axalteke]

No, I don't want any theory. You came up with one and I simply said I don't think it has anything to do with whether Yu-Na actually lips or not.

Yes, you want only a theory that this old guy's experince in the rink has nothing to do with whether Yu-Na actually lips or not. Then, dear Enzet, please, conntinue to sit on only your Laptop with this movie ! It's time for me to go to bed.....

 

[gocaroline]

I love watching FS but I myself can't skate. So I really love this thread with so much technical information about the flip and lutz. I love watching both Yuna and Mao's skating and to me both of them are really up there in one level above the rest of the field. However, to an amature like me Yuna's jump somehow just seems so clear cut in the air with full rotation all excueted in the air. I wonder why her jumps look so good, is her technique unique compare to other skaters?

 

[Blades of Passion]

Please, be kind to go to the rink and finding out yourself whether you can even stand on the ice with your body leaning toward in with your left foot on an outside edge!

Uh, yes, you can.

 

[harmy18]

Even though the 'real' flip jump requires INSIDE CURVE ONLY after the turn, this kind of curves are created by some skaters like Mao Asada.
http://cfs10.tistory.com/image/28/tistory/2008/11/08/00/16/49145bda3828a

After the turn, the skater comes in with inside edge, turns to outside edge creating outside curve, and than turns to deep inside edge before jump.
ISU accepts this kind of jump as a flip because the skater eventually jumps with inside edge, but this actually is NOT the right flip jump.

look at Mao Asada's flip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsp81rzUk98

after turn, she changes to OUTSIDE edge, and THAN changes to inside edge before the jump. This creates bent curve, which is not supposed to happen during flip.
Mao's kind of jump is performed when flutz jumpers try to fix their flutz and the body remembers the movement when the skater is trying to fix his/her jumps.

So, Mao is not really doing the RIGHT jump, it's just the ISU and judges are ACCEPTING her jump as a flip because she is jumping with her inside edge anyways.

hello chamisul, are you still here?? here comes my questions.
To be honest, I was a little confused:scratch:. Since you mentioned MAO's FLIP was acceptable (or just accepted b y FSU) because she finally jumps with an inside edge. Then what about someone eventually jumps with an outside edge? should it be called a FLIP?

Or if a skater can come in with inside edge, turn to outside edge creating outside curve, and finally turn to deep inside edge, I just wonder why skaters cannot come in with inside edge, turn out to be flat creating a flat curve, however finally turn into an outside edge?? To me, they seem to be the same

 

[AwesomeIce]

This thread is freaking ridiculous. I cannot believe how some people will try to alter the definition of a flip jump just so that it fits their particular favorite skater. Get a rulebook.

 

[PolymerBob]

Somebody has done an analysis of Yu-Na's jumping. These guys have way too much free time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9IhAvbtZbs

 

[skateaug]

This thread is freaking ridiculous. I cannot believe how some people will try to alter the definition of a flip jump just so that it fits their particular favorite skater. Get a rulebook.

Ito Midori commented Yuna's jump looked like a flip to her, and also did so after watching slo-mo again explaining the difference between flip and lutz using Yu-na's flip and lutz of her FS at COC.
Do you think Midori's commentary is to alter the definition of a flip so that it fits her favorite skater?

And there are not a few people who have the same opinion including the figure skating media and judges.

 

[HCOSurfer]

Ito Midori commented Yuna's jump looked like a flip to her, and also did so after watching slo-mo again explaining the difference between flip and lutz using Yu-na's flip and lutz of her FS at COC.
Do you think Midori's commentary is to alter the definition of a flip so that it fits her favorite skater?

The only problem is Midori is a commenter, not a technical specialist.

 

[skateaug]

The only problem is Midori is a commenter, not a technical specialist.

I guess we all know that technical specialits are not always right.
Fumie didn't receive a "!" nor a "e" for her obvious flutz at SC.

 

[sweetime]

The only problem is Midori is a commenter, not a technical specialist.

Midori is skater! Obviously, she know much about jump machanism as well as technical specialist

 

[HCOSurfer]

Midori is skater! Obviously, she know much about jump machanism as well as technical specialist

Actually this is untrue. Dick Button and Peggy Fleming always praised Sasha for her "great technique" on her triple lutz (which happened to be a flutz) and they were both Olympic Figure Skating gold medalists. So clearly former skaters can be wrong as well.

 

[Tonichelle]

^^ exactly, you can only see so much... and only what you (or your network) want to see.

Dick Button was known for calling incorrect jumps (and not because of edge take off, but like calling a toe jump an axel), and Kurt Browning had to learn quickly that just because he had a sheet with the planned jumps for the skater it didn't mean they were actually going to follow that list

 

[Wrlmy]

Actually this is untrue. Dick Button and Peggy Fleming always praised Sasha for her "great technique" on her triple lutz (which happened to be a flutz) and they were both Olympic Figure Skating gold medalists. So clearly former skaters can be wrong as well.

He had actually pointed out her flutz before, but it's true that the rest of her technique is great. Her air position, flow, and exit edge were always great. She also never underrotated her jumps.
Dick says what he wants to say, and he can be very biased. But he's almost never wrong when it comes to technique.

And I happen to think Midori Ito, the greatest female jumper in history, would know what she's talking about.

Anyway, most people who believe Yu-Na lips had already decided that she does long before she got the call, and most people who believe Yu-Na doesn't lip, including myself, will continue to believe so whether she gets the call or not.
I doubt anyone engaged in this debate will change his/her mind.

 

[chocola]

Anyway, most people who believe Yu-Na lips had already decided that she does long before she got the call, and most people who believe Yu-Na doesn't lip, including myself, will continue to believe so whether she gets the call or not.

:agree:

 

[Blades of Passion]

This thread is freaking ridiculous. I cannot believe how some people will try to alter the definition of a flip jump just so that it fits their particular favorite skater. Get a rulebook.

LOL, rulebook.

Yes, let's all bow down to every vague and/or incomplete and/or outdated line of text we can find. By all means ignore real life and actual skating!

The way people are trying to deride Yu-Na's Flip is just inane. Her quality on that element is so good. It's at the point where I almost get a headache when trying to respond to the topic.

The entire edge thing is completely overboard in general. It's annoying when people treat it like such a huge deal for ANY skater. In the end, it is one tiny aspect out of everything the skater does in their performance.

 

[axalteke]

Yes, let's all bow down to every vague and/or incomplete and/or outdated line of text we can find. By all means ignore real life and actual skating!

Uh, yes, they can just do it!

Dear Ladies and Gentlmen! Please, be kind to go to the rink and find out yourself whether you can even stand on the ice with your body leaning toward in with your left foot on an outside edge! If you can’t or don’t want to go to the rink, at least, ask someone else to do it and talk with him/her about it! Then anyone can understand this problem really easy even without taking some skaters in this Tread!

 

[Tonichelle]

I know it's hard to remember - but please read the guidelines. personal beefs with posters need to be taken to PM or email.