The Final 6 Ladies

[enlight78]

I am not talking about "now is" but "could be better", if you recognize the reason for the limitation per country at worlds, why not consider the same reasoning for GP given that it is the only "season" per se internationally ? Figure skating is a world sport as I know, and as such I repose the question:

If all six ladies at GPF are from Jpn, would you tune in and watch as an American ? In such a case how would you call figure skating a universal sport ?? Remember this is not US national, but international Grand Prix !

Yes to all. A universal sport mean all different natiotionalities may participate that doesn't mean they must make it to the final. I watch figure skating for the quality not to see how many flags I can recognize all the ladies clearly earn their way by skating better than the rest. I wich I could say the same about worlds. Pro tennis and golf are nothing but international sports and there have been all spanish, russian, sibling finals.I like the high quality of the sport; I can care less what nation they're from.

 

[champs]

Akiko had a really hard time getting a GP assignment because she couldn't get into any top Senior competitions to get a personal Best score..... That could really hurt a skater from a good country ever get exposure and ever get a chance to break through.

I think keep spots at 3 for Worlds/championships. All Senior B competitions be used for Season Best Scores, and keep the GP rules the way they are.

Hmm.. this sounds very familiar to me.

Back in last December when the Japanese Skating Fed ditched their selection criterion for skaters to be sent to 4CC last season without any public announcement before or after their selection decision, I posted my gripe about it (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18555&page=7) because Akiko Suzuki was one of the three meant to be assigned to 4CC according to their original criterion based on the placement at the Nationals. I explained how this decision made by JSF with no scruple whatsoever would hurt Akiko's opprtunities in the subsequent GP. Then I got a reply from someone (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18555&page=8) telling me it would be unfair to lesser tier European skaters if Suzuki went to 4CC and easily earned points or SB, which still left me confused as each of the national skating feds in the European nations makes their own selection process. Guess who that someone was.

 

[antmanb]

I am not talking about "now is" but "could be better", if you recognize the reason for the limitation per country at worlds, why not consider the same reasoning for GP given that it is the only "season" per se internationally ? Figure skating is a world sport as I know, and as such I repose the question:

If all six ladies at GPF are from Jpn, would you tune in and watch as an American ? In such a case how would you call figure skating a universal sport ?? Remember this is not US national, but international Grand Prix !

My view is that the GP is not the world championships. The world championships has its own rules - it limits entry by country based on it's published criteria. Qualification is not (now) required - places are given to countries and the national federations field the skaters they wish to attend. The winner of that competition is crowned world champion.

The GP is totally different. Skaters have to compete in the GP series. Those skaters given two GPS are the more likley to qualify for the final. There are six spots available and it is to the higest finishers in each event. It's down to who skates teh best on the GP in the fields they comete against. The best at worlds are seeded so as not to clash until the BIG FINAL.

Why would anyone want to limit taht by country - it is a competition that does not limit entry by country.

Frankly if Japan had all six skaters in one event then i would be tempted to view the results of that competition as more important that worlds since three of those skaters would not get to go but could likley beat the rest of the field.

We've had years where the US has had an overwhelming majority of skaters in one event at both the senior GPF and the junior GPF, i didn't hear anyone complaining about it then.

Ant

 

[propronia]

Hmm.. this sounds very familiar to me.

Back in last December when the Japanese Skating Fed ditched their selection criterion for skaters to be sent to 4CC last season without any public announcement before or after their selection decision, I posted my gripe about it (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18555&page=7) because Akiko Suzuki was one of the three meant to be assigned to 4CC according to their original criterion based on the placement at the Nationals. I explained how this decision made by JSF with no scruple whatsoever would hurt Akiko's opprtunities in the subsequent GP. Then I got a reply from someone (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18555&page=8) telling me it would be unfair to lesser tier European skaters if Suzuki went to 4CC and easily earned points or SB, which still left me confused as each of the national skating feds in the European nations makes their own selection process. Guess who that someone was.

There weren't such criteria. In 2006 and 2007, the JSF send three second tier skaters to 4CC but they are exceptions in retrospect. In all other years, at least one world team skater was assigned to 4CC. Even for 2007, if they knew the US and Canada would send world team to 4CC, I suspect they did the same.

 

[steyn]

Yep. Miki Ando get into the mix because she withdraw from the 2008 World due to injury so she is no longer seeded skater for this current GPF series. U.S pick Kim and Nakano to maximize their medal chances with world bronze and 4th place finisher.

To maximize the MEDAL chances, it is better to pick 6th place finisher even if she is paired with the world gold. To win, bronze-4th would be better, though.

 

[steyn]

NHK Trophy was an interesting event, but I was not satisfied with the camera work; there were too many close shots. In a forum in Japan, among GPS this season Skate Canada was given high reputation regarding the camera work. CBC also has a good team of commentators and interviewer, so as a whole Skate Canada was a really good competition. I am a little bit worried about SBS, because it does no have a lot of experiences of broadcasting figure skating competitions. I hope that SBS’s crew would shoot better videos than NHK.

I think you can check last 4CC which was shot by SBS.

 

[champs]

There weren't such criteria. In 2006 and 2007, the JSF send three second tier skaters to 4CC but they are exceptions in retrospect. In all other years, at least one world team skater was assigned to 4CC. Even for 2007, if they knew the US and Canada would send world team to 4CC, I suspect they did the same.

They are exceptions in retrospect because you already know what happened for 2008 4CC and because you try to look as far back as the 2002-03 season and earlier. But just prior to 2007 Jpn Nats, the 2004 - 05 season was the only exception in the last four-season span (2003-04 thru 2006 - 07). It was natural for most people to expect the same selection criterion to be used for 2008 4CC that were used 3 out of 4 in the prev. four seasons. Well, even if JSF followed the same selection criterion for 2008 4CC as the one used for 2005 4CC, that would have meant the 3rd, 4th, and the 5th finishers of 2007 Jpn Nats would have been sent to 4CC to fight for the last spot for Worlds, hence Suzuki should have qualified for 4CC using either criterion.

(By the way, as it turned out, JSF was not as dumb as they appeared to be. They somehow magically foresaw that Mao would soon part ways with Arutunian and become coach-free and that Miki would withdraw at WC, hence in retrospect it was a clever decision to send these two skaters to another big Int'l comp so that Mao will gain an experience of preparing for an ISU comp without a coach, and Miki will stock points. Way to wuzzrob Akiko!)

Back OT, I love someone synpathizing with Akiko for having a hard time getting a GP assignment when the same person basically suggested a year ago that she be robbed of an opportunity she should have naturally be given that would work towards her GP entry. Of course no one on this forum remembers her post from a year ago.

 

[Mathman]

Yep. Miki Ando get into the mix because she withdraw from the 2008 World due to injury so she is no longer seeded skater for this current GPF series. U.S pick Kim and Nakano to maximize their medal chances with world bronze and 4th place finisher.

To maximize the MEDAL chances, it is better to pick 6th place finisher even if she is paired with the world gold. To win, bronze-4th would be better, though.

I am not quite sure how the "random draw" goes. As I understand it, host countries have first choice of their own skaters. For instance, Japan could choose Mao for NHK ahead of any other federation.

But then, if the draw is truly random, the federations that choose last have to take whoever is left. So the U.S. may not have had a lot of choice about whether they wanted Kim and Nakano, or Kostner and Meier, etc.

It has always seemed to me that USFS is more interested in putting on a good show for the audience, for the television networks, and for their sponsors, than in trying to create the easiest path for U.S. skaters.

Two years ago, when Skate America got Miki Ando from the top group instead of Asada or Kim, I thought that was a strategic choice (if choice it was). That way they could bill Skate America as a showdown between the 2006 World Champion and the 2007 Worlds Champion.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

And so many non American skaters are already in the US, and the second GP brings them to home town.

 

[Blade Runner]

Many here want the "let best compete" in the GP series(some insist Worlds/Olympics as well), and thoughtful views offered are well taken; however, I see little difference in having best 3 or best 6 from a single country at GPF. The most capable skaters will rightfully claim his/her glory on the medal podium regardless. The issue here is the equitable inclusionary participation of as many international skaters as possible. My favorite sports quote goes:

"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. "
-Vince Lombardi

The fact of the matter is that the current GP system already does not stick to the Darwinian best skater policy as one would like to believe otherwise. Aside from the hosting of the events in only six preselected countries:

"Skaters who are not seeded can be invited by the hosting country and each country can invite up to three of their own skaters for each discipline. This is to give a balanced field throughout the series, as well as allowing the hosting country a chance to showcase their top competitors."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU_Grand_Prix_of_Figure_Skating

Who would blame them given those depressingly empty seats we often see in these events.hwell:

Figure skating needs to grow, and grow internationally. In this regard, consider the case of the most popular professional sports competition in the world, the European Champions League Football(with a king's ransom as prize money). There is a restriction as to how many teams per country(per domestic league) can enter the competition, not to mention the presence of sizable foreign players(Europe, America, Africa, Asia..) in each of the competing clubs. One does not need to second guess the effectiveness of such international diversity contributing towards the sport's enormous global popularity.

In the issue of diversity and success, Russia and US have historically dominated the sport of figure skating and accounted for almost 200(out of 492) medals in the GP series.
http://ww2.isu.org/historical/fsgpmedals.html

Fair-minded skating fans should be wary of the attendent corruptive influence of such dominance(e.g., Salt Lake City scandal).

Competetive landscape of figure skating is a work in progress, not unlike any other international sports and their "rules of engagement". CoP is a recent welcome change over the 6.0 towards a more objective judging, but then again this particular controversial CoP topic may have been over-threaded, or maybe not..