Aged down programs in senior women?

[TallyT]

Every time I hear a junior or junior pair skating to “Hey Big Spender” I cringe and wonder where their parents are.
I watched some Intermediate meh skating at Sectionals and thought they had much more appropriate, fun and unique music than the juniors

Let us be honest though, at that age we all thought we were much more mature and knowing than we really were (and we really were rather more than our parents and elders thought, probably).

I'm not sure what to make of Nakai and Shimada etc going for a cute girly style, but cultural differences are what they are and while the latter's pink outfit made me cringe I have no doubt her Japanese fans loved it.

 

[elbkup]

It takes a bit more thought and research to produce junior level, interesting, age appropriate programs but the music and stories are out there .. I loved junior Lilou Remeysen’s “Wednesday Addams” free program this year; I found it delightful. I know Valieva did it too but felt her interpretation missed the mark. Rachel Samiri skated her “Love Story” SP in black but the music was entirely instrumental, the whole piece thoughtfully put together. And her FP was drawn from Eternal Eclipse “Spirit of the Forest” also instrumental and enough of a challenge musically to make it interesting also very well done, not a cringe in sight.

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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[Skating91]

I'm talking mainly about Hey Big Spender (from the POV of prostitutes trying to attract customers) and other highly, darkly sexualised songs, which is why I said that I was grateful.

There's an English speaking American skater who was dressing up as the character Holly Golightly last season (she was still 17).

A native Russian speaker probably does not understand what a song is about, but there's no excuse for coaches and skaters who speak English as their first language.

 

[4everchan]

finding lyrics of a song = one click on the internet
finding translation for those lyrics = one click on the internet

no matter the language you are speaking, everything is available easily. There is no excuse for anyone.

 

[TallyT]

There's an English speaking American skater who was dressing up as the character Holly Golightly last season (she was still 17).

A native Russian speaker probably does not understand what a song is about, but there's no excuse for coaches and skaters who speak English as their first language.

They understood. It's not exactly obscure. And no, I do not excuse Americans or anyone else who gets young teens to cosplay sex workers plying their trade on ice.

 

[lariko]

There is zero excuses for Russians to use Roxanne million times in either junior or seniors tbh, since they have plenty of Russian tangos (or similar tempo/rhythm ballads, I dunno the difference/what you call it) and they have a super cherished hoarse national male voice singing to far, far better lyrics. All of which are better than idiotic Roxanne that should go on a break for reasons unconnected to the song being about (oh, the scandal!) a prostitute.

To be honest, junior male skaters skate to the songs about murderers and drunks all the time and nobody bats an eyelash. Washing material will leave the juniors with Ave Maria and a lot of instrumental pieces, because let's face it, plenty of classical operas makes your hair stand on end when you read the plot.

 

[Skating91]

finding lyrics of a song = one click on the internet
finding translation for those lyrics = one click on the internet

no matter the language you are speaking, everything is available easily. There is no excuse for anyone.

I think there's more of an excuse for choreographers and skaters who speak little or no English.

A lot of the subtext is loss in translation, and in a lot of songs even native speakers might not really pay attention to the lyrics.

We should definitely be holding native speaking choreographers, coaches, and skaters to account before non-native speakers.

 

[elektra blue]

I think there's more of an excuse for choreographers and skaters who speak little or no English.

A lot of the subtext is loss in translation, and in a lot of songs even native speakers might not really pay attention to the lyrics.

We should definitely be holding native speaking choreographers, coaches, and skaters to account before non-native speakers.

"i don't pop my cork for every guy i see" is very hard to be mistaken for something else, no it's not a bottle of champagne

 

[lariko]

"i don't pop my cork for every guy i see" is very hard to be mistaken for something else, no it's not a bottle of champagne

Tbh, I always thought it meant 'I don't go out of my way' versus an overt sexual reference, and thought the song was about casino and a savvy scammer working her mark versus a sex worker offering her services. Shrug. Apparently, it is about a stripper.

 

[TallyT]

Tbh, I always thought it meant 'I don't go out of my way' versus an overt sexual reference, and thought the song was about casino and a savvy scammer working her mark versus a sex worker offering her services. Shrug.

That's... an interesting take.

 

[lariko]

Well, I didn't exactly think about it much until people brought it up. It sounded like a Vegas music, and Vegas is casinos, plus spending. And it's not exactly a novel, just a few lines. Roxane has the context of La Dame aux Camélias, and far more overt. I've never heard of the play the Big Spender is from.

 

[gkelly]

"i don't pop my cork for every guy i see" is very hard to be mistaken for something else, no it's not a bottle of champagne

Oh, it depends how the translation translates it. E.g., I put that line into an English-French translator and got «Je ne m'emballe pas pour tous les gars que je vois.»

Then I find "s'emballer" translated to English as "to get excited" or "to get carried away." Nothing too salacious.

Knowing listeners might understand a more specific meaning, but it might not be accessible to non-English speakers seeking a direct translation.

Sweet Charity

Dance hall hostesses (dancing with male patrons for a dime a dance), not strippers.

Whether any private arrangements were made for outside intimate encounters would have been up to the individuals involved. Could happen, but the job itself was just dancing with guys, fully clothed.

 

[lariko]

Oh, it depends how the translation translates it. E.g., I put that line into an English-French translator and got «Je ne m'emballe pas pour tous les gars que je vois.»

Then I find "s'emballer" translated to English as "to get excited" or "to get carried away." Nothing too salacious.

Knowing listeners might understand a more specific meaning, but it might not be accessible to non-English speakers seeking a direct translation.

Sweet Charity

Dance hall hostesses (dancing with male patrons for a dime a dance), not strippers.

Whether any private arrangements were made for outside intimate encounters would have been up to the individuals involved. Could happen, but the job itself was just dancing with guys, fully clothed.

Wiki says:

It is sung, in the musical, by the dance hostess girls; it was choreographed by Bob Fosse for the Broadway musical Sweet Charity and the 1969 film Sweet Charity.[1] It is set to the beat of a striptease as the girls taunt the customers.[2]

So, that's why I thought it was strippers. If it's just dancing, what's the fuss? Again, boys skate to the lyrics that says 'Mama, just killed a man, Put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger, now he's dead' and any number of them skate as James Bond or other unsavory characters? Is popping the cork a slang from the 60s for a specific sexual act or something? Is this what i am not getting?

 

[gkelly]

Wiki says:

It is sung, in the musical, by the dance hostess girls; it was choreographed by Bob Fosse for the Broadway musical Sweet Charity and the 1969 film Sweet Charity.[1] It is set to the beat of a striptease as the girls taunt the customers.[2]

So, that's why I thought it was strippers. If it's just dancing, what's the fuss? Again, boys skate to the lyrics that says 'Mama, just killed a man, Put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger, now he's dead' and any number of them skate as James Bond or other unsavory characters? Is popping the cork a slang from the 60s for a specific sexual act or something? Is this what i am not getting?

It's sexy, the women are scantily clad (remember, this was the era of miniskirts), but they're not taking anything off:

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They're inviting the men to dance, with innuendos to get the men interested.

This is the sexiest number in the show.

 

[lariko]

Okay, so the figure skaters whose whole shtick is to dance for money is okay, but skating to a song about dancing for money is not. Maybe if ISU asked for proper athletic wear for figure skaters in at least the junior group instead of a swimsuit with tiny skirt, maybe then I'd get the pinching of lips, but as things stand now, I don't see how the song is worse than any other song with a hint of sensuality or flirting which is 90% of all music.

 

[elektra blue]

Tbh, I always thought it meant 'I don't go out of my way' versus an overt sexual reference, and thought the song was about casino and a savvy scammer working her mark versus a sex worker offering her services. Shrug. Apparently, it is about a stripper.

no hon, no. the corck is the...how do i tell you...anyone? help? you know the story about bees and flowers?

guys, Sweet Charity is about prostitutes. it's the story of a prostitute. the big spender is the client and the fun is sex (and i'm not a prude so i have no problems when adults skate to it or other similar stuff). also Roxanne is not walking the streets for money because she's looking for coins on the sidewalk

 

[lariko]

no hon, no. the corck is the...how do i tell you...anyone? help? you know the story about bees and flowers?

guys, Sweet Charity is about prostitutes. it's the story of a prostitute. the big spender is the client and the fun is sex (and i'm not a prude so i have no problems when adults skate to it or other similar stuff). also Roxanne is not walking the streets for money because she's looking for coins on the sidewalk

Google says it's not about prostitutes but taxi dancers. I dunno. If it was about prostitutes why would they not say so outright in 2025 versus wink-wink, nudge-nudge?

Google also says:
"Pop the cork" generally means celebrating an occasion by opening champagne or wine, symbolizing bursting joy. It can also metaphorically describe someone becoming explosively angry, losing control, or acting irrationally. The phrase literally refers to removing a cork from a bottle.
Key Interpretations:
Celebration: To mark a special occasion with bubbly or wine.
Intense Emotion: To express uncontrollable happiness or sudden, intense anger.
Losing Control: To behave irrationally or "go crazy".
Related Slang (Similar Sounds/Words):
Pop one's clogs: (British, informal) To die.
Corked: (British, slang) Drunk.

While Roxane is obviously about a prostiute, The Big Spender doesn't seem to be, at least on the surface? So people who want to interpret it in a less sexworker way, can? Is it really that inconcievable?

 

[gkelly]

There are a number of operas in which the female leads are courtesans or have otherwise been sold for money. Do you have a problem with young skaters using music from those sources?

 

[TallyT]

There are a number of operas in which the female leads are courtesans or have otherwise been sold for money. Do you have a problem with young skaters using music from those sources?

Well yes of course I do if and when the aria is about having sex, just as I do if 13-14 year olds perform (and I don't mean just skating) to pop/rock songs explicitly about the same. I don't understand the question?

I am also absolutely gobsmacked by this discussion - my family would tell you that I am quite naive in many ways but I had no idea that any adults these days who had heard of Sweet Charity or the song couldn't tell it was about sex for money!
And - as happens so often in these threads - we are veering very much since it's about aged down not up, and seniors not juniors???

 

[lariko]

There are a number of operas in which the female leads are courtesans or have otherwise been sold for money. Do you have a problem with young skaters using music from those sources?

The plot of Turandot gave me the most uncomfortable feeling after I read the summary. Puccini gave up on it because of how uncomfortable his own take of a fairly common set up of the tale was, and that's even to a 19th century man. I don't, however, mind anyone skating to the music because I don't know how they interpret it and which thread/character/spin they take on it.