Custom traditional leather boot options

[Casey]

I'll preface this by saying I've only skated intermittently over the past decade and a half, and have been out of the loop with the skating world for just as long. Recently, my children have taken an interest in skating, and I've felt the old passion returning as I've gotten some more ice time in recently with my family. When I skated before it was on my own, when I lost interest it was on my own, and then when I got married, my priorities just did not include skating. But my wife also used to skate to a similar level as myself (all the single jumps, etc.), and I have found that visiting the rink together as a family is inspiring. I'm now looking forward to my kids getting farther along, then taking a couple who progress well to freestyle sessions in the morning before work and school.

Anyways, I still have Klingbeil boots in excellent condition aside from cosmetic damage (the leather paint is peeling off), so I don't personally need new skates soon. My kids will be just fine in intermediate stock boots, at least until/unless one or more gets really serious about it. My wife, however, probably ought to get new skates sooner than later. She currently has Riedell 335's, and while the boot size matches the size her foot measures, she suffers from the classic Riedell fit issues due to their narrow toebox - they cramp and hurt her small toes, which limits her skating. When we take the insole out, I see a lot of space in front of her toes, but it's the unusably narrow point. Due to the pain she was suffering, she talked to a pro shop and had them punch out the toebox - this unfortunately made the fit too loose, while not even addressing the pain as the part which was punched out was not in the correct spot. I previously had stock Graf Edmontons which were poorly fitted, and actually a couple sizes too large. They caused significant, long-lasting problems for my feet which is a big part of why I started losing interest in skating in the first place. So...painful skates that are now too roomy - not a good combination.

So now we're looking for replacement boots, and the skating landscape has changed a lot. It seems that the elite competive landscape is now dominated by Jackson, Edea, and Risport; and people are willing to use designs I consider ugly and synthetic materials in trade for a shaving off a little weight (I'm specifically thinking of Edea here). Edeas also seem weird in that they don't flex like normal boots, although I guess a lot of people are using them successfully, and they don't look as bad as Aura. I've never felt very impressed by Jackson - the Grafs I bought were similarly heat-moldable, and were a bad experience for me vs. true custom boots. Risport seems like they might be a good option for a stock boot as their design looks more accommodating to my wife's feet than Riedell, but apparently ordering custom requires traveling to Italy which just isn't in my cards. It seem that traditional leather skating boots have fallen out of favor. Even stock SP-Teris use a synthetic material (clarino) now, although as far as I'm aware, customs are still leather. Back in 2014 after Klingbeil's demise, I was excited about Avanta, especially after I spoke with them and they said that they would be happy to build an all-leather boot if that's what I wanted, rather than their ligher-weight default. Now I see some negative opinions about Avanta, but am not sure of why this is. Avanta used to be in Tennessee and run by Bill Fauver, but now they are in the SF bay area, and SP-Teri, which used to be in the bay area, is now in Tennessee and is run by the same Bill Fauver. Does anyone know the history of what happened?

SP-Teri is closer to me geographically than Harlick or Avanta, and I would hope still make a great skating boot. When I first started skating and was using floppy recreational skates, a roommate loaned me his SP-Teris for a session (with many warnings to be careful with them!) and that's what convinced me I needed to buy better skates. So I have a good impression of them, and we're currently leaning towards either Avanta or SP-Teri. To be fair, I likely would have been fine moving to proper-sized stock boots (assuming I could find EE width) instead of going the full custom route, but I *love* how well the Klingbeils fit, and as an adult with the means to afford it, with feet that aren't going to significantly change any more, I would like to buy the best possible experience and least risk of injury for my wife. I'd also like to have clarity on what I'm going to do should I ever need to replace my current boots, especially if the lead times are as horribly long as I've seen mention of lately. Heck, if I start skating more regularly again, it may be good to buy a second pair that I keep in nicer shape for competitions (though now I'm getting ahead of myself).

Do you guys think the trending away from traditional boots may just be a passing fad? Or only really worth considering for those pushing the upper limits? Or do you think I am in error and should I get with the times and consider Edea and revolution blades like everyone else seems to be doing, as the tradeoffs are worth it? Genuinely curious for your input...while I don't personally like the modern aesthetics, I can see a potential of just embracing modernity. And if we decide to just stick with tradition, dagnabbit, what seems to be the best company to work with in this day and age?

 

[Diana Delafield]

I'll preface this by saying I've only skated intermittently over the past decade and a half, and have been out of the loop with the skating world for just as long. Recently, my children have taken an interest in skating, and I've felt the old passion returning as I've gotten some more ice time in recently with my family. When I skated before it was on my own, when I lost interest it was on my own, and then when I got married, my priorities just did not include skating. But my wife also used to skate to a similar level as myself (all the single jumps, etc.), and I have found that visiting the rink together as a family is inspiring. I'm now looking forward to my kids getting farther along, then taking a couple who progress well to freestyle sessions in the morning before work and school.

Anyways, I still have Klingbeil boots in excellent condition aside from cosmetic damage (the leather paint is peeling off), so I don't personally need new skates soon. My kids will be just fine in intermediate stock boots, at least until/unless one or more gets really serious about it. My wife, however, probably ought to get new skates sooner than later. She currently has Riedell 335's, and while the boot size matches the size her foot measures, she suffers from the classic Riedell fit issues due to their narrow toebox - they cramp and hurt her small toes, which limits her skating. When we take the insole out, I see a lot of space in front of her toes, but it's the unusably narrow point. Due to the pain she was suffering, she talked to a pro shop and had them punch out the toebox - this unfortunately made the fit too loose, while not even addressing the pain as the part which was punched out was not in the correct spot. I previously had stock Graf Edmontons which were poorly fitted, and actually a couple sizes too large. They caused significant, long-lasting problems for my feet which is a big part of why I started losing interest in skating in the first place. So...painful skates that are now too roomy - not a good combination.

So now we're looking for replacement boots, and the skating landscape has changed a lot. It seems that the elite competive landscape is now dominated by Jackson, Edea, and Risport; and people are willing to use designs I consider ugly and synthetic materials in trade for a shaving off a little weight (I'm specifically thinking of Edea here). Edeas also seem weird in that they don't flex like normal boots, although I guess a lot of people are using them successfully, and they don't look as bad as Aura. I've never felt very impressed by Jackson - the Grafs I bought were similarly heat-moldable, and were a bad experience for me vs. true custom boots. Risport seems like they might be a good option for a stock boot as their design looks more accommodating to my wife's feet than Riedell, but apparently ordering custom requires traveling to Italy which just isn't in my cards. It seem that traditional leather skating boots have fallen out of favor. Even stock SP-Teris use a synthetic material (clarino) now, although as far as I'm aware, customs are still leather. Back in 2014 after Klingbeil's demise, I was excited about Avanta, especially after I spoke with them and they said that they would be happy to build an all-leather boot if that's what I wanted, rather than their ligher-weight default. Now I see some negative opinions about Avanta, but am not sure of why this is. Avanta used to be in Tennessee and run by Bill Fauver, but now they are in the SF bay area, and SP-Teri, which used to be in the bay area, is now in Tennessee and is run by the same Bill Fauver. Does anyone know the history of what happened?

SP-Teri is closer to me geographically than Harlick or Avanta, and I would hope still make a great skating boot. When I first started skating and was using floppy recreational skates, a roommate loaned me his SP-Teris for a session (with many warnings to be careful with them!) and that's what convinced me I needed to buy better skates. So I have a good impression of them, and we're currently leaning towards either Avanta or SP-Teri. To be fair, I likely would have been fine moving to proper-sized stock boots (assuming I could find EE width) instead of going the full custom route, but I *love* how well the Klingbeils fit, and as an adult with the means to afford it, with feet that aren't going to significantly change any more, I would like to buy the best possible experience and least risk of injury for my wife. I'd also like to have clarity on what I'm going to do should I ever need to replace my current boots, especially if the lead times are as horribly long as I've seen mention of lately. Heck, if I start skating more regularly again, it may be good to buy a second pair that I keep in nicer shape for competitions (though now I'm getting ahead of myself).

Do you guys think the trending away from traditional boots may just be a passing fad? Or only really worth considering for those pushing the upper limits? Or do you think I am in error and should I get with the times and consider Edea and revolution blades like everyone else seems to be doing, as the tradeoffs are worth it? Genuinely curious for your input...while I don't personally like the modern aesthetics, I can see a potential of just embracing modernity. And if we decide to just stick with tradition, dagnabbit, what seems to be the best company to work with in this day and age?

You should be buying boots that fit the specific shape of your wife's feet, and your own should you also want them, and are the right stiffness for your height(s) and weight(s), not wandering all over the map comparing the look or the material of every brand out there. Different brands are designed fit different shaped feet. You need a pro fitter to measure your feet and advise you which brands will fit both of you, and which specific models since not all of the models made by a brand will fit the same feet. Where do you live, and someone here will be able to point you to the nearest good skate shop?

You don't, by the way, have to travel to Europe to get custom boots made there. I live on the Pacific coast of Canada. I have a pair of custom Graf boots on order, being made in Switzerland from measurements taken by my fitter in Vancouver. The Grafs are an experiment. Usually I wear Risport's RF1 model but I don't travel to Italy to get them.

Give us more specifics about the feet involved, either of your wife or yourself, and we can give you general advice re appropriate brands to back up more specific advice a good boot fitter will give you. And you should get the fitter to suggest the appropriate brand and model for your children as well, to give them a safe start in skating whether they go on to more advanced figure skating or not. Good luck to your whole family!

 

[Casey]

In theory that's true (about not having to travel to Europe), but in looking into Risport custom boots, it doesn't seem that remote fitting is viable with them. Elite skaters are able to get custom Risports but it usually involves trip(s) to Risport in Italy. For a stock boot, we do believe that Risport would provide a better fit for her feet than stock Riedell. RF1's are a stock boot.

Custom boots should be able to accommodate any foot - that's the whole point. At least with true customs. I suppose that custom Riedells would also be an option to consider. I'd rather find custom boots than settling for stock. I didn't know that Graf made custom boots. But the stock Grafs I had were totally thrashed in a year. The soles were completely separating, the ankles were creased pretty badly, and the suede finish didn't hold up well. They were also poorly-fitted which wasn't Graf's fault, but the whole experience left me with a bad impression of Graf. They may well have improved in the years since then though.

Fitters will recommend whatever they personally prefer working with. The most reputable fitter in my area prefers Jackson or Edea, neither of which are brands I care for. The closest SP-Teri fitter I could find is 7 hours away, and at that point I might as well drive to SP-Teri in Tennessee, which another 3 hours farther.

As for the feet specifics - my wife measures as a 9B, and her Reidell stock boots are a 9B, but they don't fit well and for her specifically, we are really wanting to buy customs. Mine measure as 9EE, but I don't need new boots in the foreseeable future. The children currently measure as 7E (girl), 10C (girl), 11C (boy), 13E (boy), 2D (girl), and 2E (boy); and for them I will be seeking out stock sizes and/or used to keep it all affordable, but I will likely avoid Riedell stock sizes due to their toebox design. I'm thinking about the Risport Antares for the older four, and then possibly Jacksons for the younger ones who will be less demanding until they outgrow them.

 

[FethryDuck]

Hi Casey,
I share your preference in terms of leather (i.e. not only uppers but also lining) boots.

But, as you stated, apparently traditional leather lined boots have fallen out of favour.
One reason (I guess) may be, that the break-in period for such boots was probably longer and people did not want to put up with that any longer; also many of those all-leather boots may not have been heat moldable (thus the longer break-in period with blisters etc ...).



I have been on that forum for some months now and the impression I got is that non-recreational skaters nowadays buy new skates twice a year or so, depending on how heavily they use them.
This would tell me that today's skates are made in a way that they are easier to break in but at the same time break down much quicker.

Seems like a figure skating boot has become a commodity and is not a "long term investment" any more.

Maybe a compromise for your wife may be to first buy stock boots that fit well enough (there are people around in that forum who are very good both at recommending a model/ brand that fits a specific foot type and skilled fitters that do not just talk you into something that does not fit) and take it from there.

If money is not the issue for you, your wife could always switch to her "dream custom leather lining boots" later on.
But also with custom made boots there is a risk that those costum boots may turn out not to fit as anticipated and then you have spent a lot of money in vain.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hi Casey,
I share your preference in terms of leather (i.e. not only uppers but also lining) boots.

But, as you stated, apparently traditional leather lined boots have fallen out of favour.
One reason (I guess) may be, that the break-in period for such boots was probably longer and people did not want to put up with that any longer; also many of those all-leather boots may not have been heat moldable (thus the longer break-in period with blisters etc ...).



I have been on that forum for some months now and the impression I got is that non-recreational skaters nowadays buy new skates twice a year or so, depending on how heavily they use them.
This would tell me that today's skates are made in a way that they are easier to break in but at the same time break down much quicker.

Seems like a figure skating boot has become a commodity and is not a "long term investment" any more.

Maybe a compromise for your wife may be to first buy stock boots that fit well enough (there are people around in that forum who are very good both at recommending a model/ brand that fits a specific foot type and skilled fitters that do not just talk you into something that does not fit) and take it from there.

If money is not the issue for you, your wife could always switch to her "dream custom leather lining boots" later on.
But also with custom made boots there is a risk that those costum boots may turn out not to fit as anticipated and then you have spent a lot of money in vain.

Actually, competitive skaters who wore leather would go through a pair in about 6-9 months depending on how rough they were on them and if they would get two pairs and alternate b/t them.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

@Casey Your wife should look at Risport Royal line, Riedell and Graf.

Graf is a great brand and they have come a long way. Many Olympic champs and current top competitive skaters wear Graf. And you don't have to go overseas to Europe to get custom Risport or Graf or whatever brand if you wish to do that.

I am between Canada and the US mostly (except for touring, comp season) and have no issues getting my customs w/o going to Europe.

 

[Casey]

@Casey Your wife should look at Risport Royal line, Riedell and Graf.

Graf is a great brand and they have come a long way. Many Olympic champs and current top competitive skaters wear Graf. And you don't have to go overseas to Europe to get custom Risport or Graf or whatever brand if you wish to do that.

I am between Canada and the US mostly (except for touring, comp season) and have no issues getting my customs w/o going to Europe.

Thank you for the feedback! I had specifically read that remote custom fitting was not viable with Risport (but would love to hear otherwise), and just hadn't considered Graf at all after my prior negative experience with them. Is that what you are using now? Do you have any experience with SP-Teri?

Do you think that the Royal Pro would be acceptable for someone doing only single jumps? I see they are rated for doubles and triples, but a stiffness rating of 65 doesn't sound like it's necessarily too much boot for an adult's weight.

 

[Casey]

Actually, competitive skaters who wore leather would go through a pair in about 6-9 months depending on how rough they were on them and if they would get two pairs and alternate b/t them.

Wow that's crazy, I didn't know boots commonly wore out that quickly even at the elite level. I assumed that they would have a couple pairs though, in order to keep one presentable and predictable for competitions...

 

[Diana Delafield]

Wow that's crazy, I didn't know boots commonly wore out that quickly even at the elite level. I assumed that they would have a couple pairs though, in order to keep one presentable and predictable for competitions...

The more advanced the skater, the faster the boots wear down. More stress and pressure on them from the jumps and other elements being practised over and over, many hours every day. This is the reason for stiffness ratings of each model from each brand. The more advanced you are, or the larger and heavier you are, the stiffer the boot you need, for its relative longevity and for your safety.

An extra pair isn't for "Sunday best". The pairs might be used alternately from day to day, letting one pair air out and thoroughly dry. Or if one boot or blade is damaged, the matching left or right skate from the other pair can be used until the skater can get to their technician (who is *not* the sharpener at the arena's pro shop). I've known some skaters flying to competitions who will take one pair with them in their luggage and ship the other pair by a courier company if they have someone at the competition city to receive the box, in case their luggage is lost. Lots of reasons.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thank you for the feedback! I had specifically read that remote custom fitting was not viable with Risport (but would love to hear otherwise), and just hadn't considered Graf at all after my prior negative experience with them. Is that what you are using now? Do you have any experience with SP-Teri?

Do you think that the Royal Pro would be acceptable for someone doing only single jumps? I see they are rated for doubles and triples, but a stiffness rating of 65 doesn't sound like it's necessarily too much boot for an adult's weight.

Yes. But what is her height/weight?

 

[Casey]

Yes. But what is her height/weight?

Would you mind if I reserve that for a private message? I tried to send you one but it says I'm not allowed to for some reason. Out of respect, I don't want to post my wife's measurements on the internet for anyone to see.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Would you mind if I reserve that for a private message? I tried to send you one but it says I'm not allowed to for some reason. Out of respect, I don't want to post my wife's measurements on the internet for anyone to see.

In the skating world everyone exchanges that information, but if she really objects, I think you can send a DM to me here and I'll pass the information on to @Ic3Rabbit. Since you're American, inches and lbs will do, although normally it's cm and kg.

And could you be more specific about where you live? "Somewhere near Tennessee" doesn't help suggesting the best skate shop in your area to visit to see a good boot fitter. How far is she willing to travel to be fitted?

They need to be able to measure her feet in all directions, not just their length but the circumference at several points from the ball of the foot up to the ankles, both standing and sitting, and see her toe shape and arch height. They don't need to know her street shoe size; skate boots will be a smaller size because they have to fit more snugly than shoes, particularly in the heel area where there must be no room for her foot to shift. (The heel pocket can't be moulded effectively.) Only she will be able to tell them how they feel while trying on various suggested boots. They'll also take her height and weight into consideration, and question her about her level of expertise so far and what she's hoping to achieve on the ice.

 

[Casey]

The children currently measure as 7E (girl), 10C (girl), 11C (boy), 13E (boy), 2D (girl), and 2E (boy); and for them I will be seeking out stock sizes and/or used to keep it all affordable, but I will likely avoid Riedell stock sizes due to their toebox design. I'm thinking about the Risport Antares for the older four, and then possibly Jacksons for the younger ones who will be less demanding until they outgrow them.

Argh, Risport only makes a "comfort" width in the kid's sizes which is a B/C, and Jackson only makes up to D. For the two needing E, this doesn't seem ideal. I guess Reidell makes wider stock sizes, so maybe they are actually a good option for the kids even though I had been ruling them out?

 

[Casey]

In the skating world everyone exchanges that information, but if she really objects, I think you can send a DM to me here and I'll pass the information on to @Ic3Rabbit. Since you're American, inches and lbs will do, although normally it's cm and kg.

Thank you! Sent.

And could you be more specific about where you live? "Somewhere near Tennessee" doesn't help suggesting the best skate shop in your area to visit to see a good boot fitter. How far is she willing to travel to be fitted?

I live in the Tampa, FL area, and as far as I know, the most reputable skate fitter in the area is Tim at Rinkside Sports, who we stopped by and met briefly the other day. I was hoping to get a better idea of what we wanted to order first, as he seems to primarily work with Edea and Jackson, neither of which we care for. I mean we're not completely ruling anything out just yet, but I don't want to waste anyone's time unnecessarily, especially if they are in high demand. When I got my custom Klingbeils years ago, livng in a totally opposite corner of the country, I knew whan I wanted and then seeked out a fitter that worked with them, rather than being convinced by a fitter what brand I should go with. We are fine with traveling any driveable distance assuming we can make it work on a weekend sometime.

I admit I may well be overthinking things and am perhaps being more picky than I need to be, but with as much as skates cost, it's hard not to! Affording the skates is not an issue, but I don't want it to be a regretted purchase.

They need to be able to measure her feet in all directions, not just their length but the circumference at several points from the ball of the foot up to the ankles, both standing and sitting, and see her toe shape and arch height. They don't need to know her street shoe size; skate boots will be a smaller size because they have to fit more snugly than shoes, particularly in the heel area where there must be no room for her foot to shift. (The heel pocket can't be moulded effectively.) Only she will be able to tell them how they feel while trying on various suggested boots. They'll also take her height and weight into consideration, and question her about her level of expertise so far and what she's hoping to achieve on the ice.

Good reminder about how a good fitting involves a lot more than just a length and ball width measurements. This is exactly the reason I'm thinking that custom is the ideal route to go. My own custom fitting experience was as you describe, much more detailed. I think I also had to step onto some sort of foam stuff to get an imprint of the bottom of my feet to send to Klingbeil. Then when I needed to replace that pair, they just reused my existing last and I didn't have to get fitted again.

 

[Mimi2789]

The boots currently coming out of SP Teri are a horror show. Do not even give it a second thought. Someone at my rink was recently sent a pair that looked and fit like they were made by a blindfolded child, his first day on the job. Our tech won't even do fittings for them any longer because he says the quality has become so poor.

 

[Casey]

The boots currently coming out of SP Teri are a horror show. Do not even give it a second thought. Someone at my rink was recently sent a pair that looked and fit like they were made by a blindfolded child, his first day on the job. Our tech won't even do fittings for them any longer because he says the quality has become so poor.

There have certainly been some horrible boots in recent years - I've seen pictures that were just astonishingly bad. I talked with Bill who now owns SP-Teri and it sounded like this had primarily happened due to loss of staff when the business was relocated to Tennessee and subsequent tornado damage. I'd like to believe they are improving now as I would love the SP-Teri name to stay alive and regain former glory, but have zero firsthand experience to base that on, and after reading a fair number of reviews like what you're saying, we just couldn't . We ultimately decided to try Avanta for a number of reasons, and I've decided to replace my old boots as well. We hope to see new boots in May.