Free Dance Results

[lmarie086]

Vincero, ITA with everything you said. I basically don't need to say anything now, but I guess I will anyway

Chock/Zuerlein: faster than I remember, better connection to the music. More connection to each other too, but still a bit lacking. I just don't see them as Phantom and Christine; he's too young for it if you ask me.

Hubbells: They surprised me; I actually kinda like this FD. Nowhere near as much as their Apocalyptica, but it's still good. I just wish it wasn't so similar to what Samuelson/Bates had last season, the two teams are so different in style. They're very polished, and I'd have given them higher PCS than C/Z

Those are the only two I've seen, I can't find R/G : (

 

[chuckm]

The Hubbells won the 2006-2007 JGPF, but at 2007 JW, Keiffer got sick and they finished 6th. They sat out most of the 2007-2008 season because of Keiffer's injury, but came back to win the Junior title at 2008 Nationals and finish 5th at 2008 JW.

In the last two seasons, the JGPF winners were not the JW winners:

2006-2007 JGPF: Hubbells, Samuelson/Bates, Bobrova/Soloviev
2007 Worlds: Bobrova/Soloviev, Grunberg/Rand, Weaver/Poje (Samuelson was injured during the FD and they had to withdraw)

2007-2008 JGPF: Monko/Tkachenko, Samuelson/Bates, Gorshkova/Butikov
2008 Worlds: Samuelson/Bates, Crone/Poirier, Gorshkova/Butikov (HH-5th, Riazanova/Guerreiro-6th)

Based on what's happened in the past, there's no clear pecking order as far as Worlds is concerned. But I believe that if the Hubbells skate 3 clean programs, they have a good chance to win that elusive title.

BTW, I did catch R/G's FD live on Korean TV, and they were definitely a bit off. I wasn't surprised to see them drop behind the Hubbells. Overall, the judges were very stingy with the scores, but at least this year, all the teams got the same lowball treatment.

 

[rosee]

I've just seen Chock/Zuerlein and all I've got to say is that they were "on". I still don't like this program, but they were really "on" so I've enjoyed watching it.

The Hubbells won the 2006-2007 JGPF, but at 2007 JW, Keiffer got sick and they finished 6th.

Yes. At JW They had a double fall in CD which put them 12 in that portion. Then they were 5th in the Od and 4th in the FD!

 

[dancemaster]

Riazanova & guerreiro rus fd

http://www.dailymotion.com/dancemaster9099/video/x7quyh_777-ekaterina-riazanova-jonathan-gu_sport

 

[dancemaster]

Now this is interesting
Hubbells OD with a fall a few mistakes they PCS=
s/ skills 6.40 footwork 6.25 performance 6.25 choreography 6.35 timing 6.40

Hubbells FD pretty clean/strong skate
s/ skills 6.40 footwork 6.00 performance 6.40 choreography 6.30 timing 6.30

Go figure

that is what i call changing horses mid race

 

[Sackie]

No it's what you call holding a team up so they do not get too far behind without a chance to move up! Quite often top skaters/teams who have errors receive higher then usual PCS marks so they do not get too far behind.

 

[chuckm]

No it's what you call holding a team up so they do not get too far behind without a chance to move up! Quite often top skaters/teams who have errors receive higher then usual PCS marks so they do not get too far behind.

Or maybe it's just that the Hubbells truly are a much better dance team than many if not most of the teams finishing above them in the OD, despite their mistakes. They did win both of their JGP events, and they are former JGPF champions. They finished 5th at 2008 JW after missing the early season due to injury, making them the highest ranked junior team after Samuelson/Bates, Crone/Poirier, Gorshkova/Butikov and Monko/Tkachenko moved up to Senior or retired.

Davis/White had a disastrous OD at CoR, but were able to make it to the podium by finishing 2nd in the FD.

I am sure that Crone/Poirier or Virtue/Moir would receive the same PCS treatment if they had a mistake in one of their programs.

 

[Vincero]

Now this is interesting
Hubbells OD with a fall a few mistakes they PCS=
s/ skills 6.40 footwork 6.25 performance 6.25 choreography 6.35 timing 6.40

Hubbells FD pretty clean/strong skate
s/ skills 6.40 footwork 6.00 performance 6.40 choreography 6.30 timing 6.30

Go figure

that is what i call changing horses mid race

I assume you're talking about how the judges suddenly changed their opinion about them, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the OD panel of judges should be different from the FD one, right? There might be some judges who are on both panels, but the panel should be different. That would explain why the FD PCs are so low compared to their OD.

If you're talking about them receiving high marks, then I agree with chuckm, they deserve it because they're definitely the most polished junior team right now.

 

[dancemaster]

I assume you're talking about how the judges suddenly changed their opinion about them, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the OD panel of judges should be different from the FD one, right? There might be some judges who are on both panels, but the panel should be different. That would explain why the FD PCs are so low compared to their OD.
.

there was not a change of panel
same panel Od anf FD
One would expect Hubbells to get a higher PCS for a FD clean skate the OD with a fall and mistakes

 

[dancemaster]

Davis/White had a disastrous OD at CoR, but were able to make it to the podium by finishing 2nd in the FD.

.

but unlike Hubbell D/W got a much higher PCS in the FD when skated clean then The disastrous OD

regarding Hubbells
that is what i call changing horses mid race

 

[samba]

It could be just the mental game. After the fall in OD and the scores went down that low, knowing that they had no chance to win gold medal (as they hoped) made them unable to perform at their level. This team is one of the best US teams . Do not forget that they're only 17-18 y/o, mental touchness is not easy to train. Give them more time, they will be able to fight back like D/W.

 

[chuckm]

All of the JGPF FD scores were lower than the best score from the teams' JGP events. This was just a low-scoring judging panel.

79.31 Chock/Zuerlein, JGPF FD
83.07 Chock/Zuerlein, GBR
74.42 Chock/Zuerlein, ITA

76.70 Hubbells, JGPF FD
76.46 Hubbells, RSA
80.34 Hubbells, MEX

73.45 Riazanova/Guerreiro, JGPF FD
81.31 Riazanova/Guerreiro, ESP
69.98 Riazanova/Guerreiro, ITA

73.55 Shibutanis, JGPF FD
79.30 Shibutanis, ESP
78.89 Shibutanis, FRA

71.76 Pushkash/Kiselev, JGPF FD
73.49 Pushkash/Kiselev, GBR
72.31 Pushkash/Kiselev, BLR

71.37 Ralph/Hill, JGPF FD
73.70 Ralph/Hill, MEX
70.98 Ralph/Hill, FRA

69.93 Agafonova/Dun, JGPF FD
71.75 Agafonova/Dun, GBR
73.04 Agafonova/Dun, BLR

67.69 Antipova/Kudashev, JGPF FD
69.89 Antipova/Kudashev, RSA
72.59 Antipova/Kudashev, CZE

 

[dancemaster]

All of the JGPF FD scores were lower than the best score from the teams' JGP events. This was just a low-scoring judging panel.

in this competition Madison CHOCK / Greg ZUERLEIN got the best PCS of the year for them
on the free dance in England 38.62 and at the final 39.31
in fact hubbell came with a year best of 39.44 and here scored 37.30

 

[dorispulaski]

Certainly in the Senior GPF, I thought the callers were quite tough. Was it the same callers for the JGPF? That could be why the scores were rather low.

Also, I thought the judges were a bit stingier with GOE in the Seniors. I haven't been through the juniors scores in detail yet to know whether that's the case there.

 

[dancemaster]

Certainly in the Senior GPF, I thought the callers were quite tough. Was it the same callers for the JGPF? That could be why the scores were rather low.

Also, I thought the judges were a bit stingier with GOE in the Seniors. I haven't been through the juniors scores in detail yet to know whether that's the case there.

same panel for both events not quiet sure this is a good or bad thing having the same panel

 

[dorispulaski]

I'm not sure either. But I kind of cautiously think it is a good thing. It does accustom the juniors what to expect from a senior international panel, in case they were in any doubt. Which is probably good. Since there are only 14 couples (6 senior, 8 junior) at the GPF, the strain on the technical panel & the judges is a lot less than judging Worlds or Europeans, so that part's OK.

 

[dancemaster]

I'm not sure either. But I kind of cautiously think it is a good thing. It does accustom the juniors what to expect from a senior international panel, in case they were in any doubt. Which is probably good. Since there are only 14 couples (6 senior, 8 junior) at the GPF, the strain on the technical panel & the judges is a lot less than judging Worlds or Europeans, so that part's OK.

From the skating and financial point of view i think it a good thing

as for the judging i think the junior teams (specially dances will be used in trade)
really most federations are more concerned with senior medals then junior ones

 

[samba]

Does anybody know if we can compare the Senior OD with the Junior OD scores since the program theme and duration are exactly the same?

Even the FD, the top Junior teams at JGP ( C/Z, H/H) received the scores that were higher than some top Senior US teams despite the 30 sec. longer programs in Senior level.

 

[dancemaster]

Does anybody know if we can compare the Senior OD with the Junior OD scores since the program theme and duration are exactly the same?

l.

the technical elements yes you can especially the base value mark in the OD
e.g highest base value for seniors was Scali with 26.90
juniors was hills with 26.80

and the FD you have to add 4 point to the junior mark for the extra lift the seniors have
the seniors Whites 42
juniors Kudashev 38+4= 42 even juniors top mark was = to seniors top mark

 

[dorispulaski]

As far as I know, C&Z will be competing in Juniors at US Nationals, but the Hubbells will be competing in seniors? The Hubbells fell, and I doubt that they would want their JGPF OD score in seniors. But in general:

As to how those scores will translate to US National scores, I suppose the case of Samuelson&Bates last year will give a clue. S&B typically got all level 4's for their OD in the JGP. At the JGPF, they also got all level 4's:
Base mark: 28.30
TES: 31.93
PCS: 23.73
Total Score: 55.66


and they did at US Nationals as well.

The base marks at JGPF & the GPF will if anything, be less generous than at US nationals in seniors. And D&W and B&A will be working at bringing levels up. In the case of D&W, provided they skate the OD well, they should at least have as good a base mark as at Skate canada (26.80). B&A had 25.30 at Cup of China and 25.40 at Skate America. One should not expect those base marks to be lower than that at US Nationals, provided of course that both teams skate well.

S&B in the OD at US Nationals:

Base mark: 28.30 (all level 4's)
TES: 32.36
PCS: 25.26
Total: 57.62

Place: 4th, behind Navarro&Bommentre who had 3 level 3 skills, D&W who had 1 level 3 skill & the rest 4's (base mark 27.80), and B&A who had 1 level 2 skill mark due to a stumble in the twizzle (base mark 27.50) and the rest 4's.

NavBoms
Base Mark: 26.30
TES: 30.95
PCS: 27.76
Total: 58.71

Items to note:
1. S&B scored higher at US Nationals than at the JGPF. This is not surprising. Nearly all nationals for nearly all countries give their skaters higher GOE and PCS than they would get internationally for the same performances. The other teams scores were also inflated.

2. Doing a level 3 skill very well can earn you nearly as many points than doing a level 4 skill less well. Consequently NavBoms picked up one point vs. S&B just by getting higher GOE & D&W (33.37) and B&A (32.56) both outscored S&B in total TES, despite having one lower level skill each than S&B.

3. It's easier to do a level4 step if you're skating slowly. This difference is generally evened out by the fact that the faster skater will be getting a higher PCS skating skills mark.

4. Even if you have the highest TES, a lot of evening out can be done with PCS. Note that last year at US Nationals, D&W had the highest TES, but B&A won the OD.

5. Yes, the best juniors are often better than the worst seniors. This would be why S&B's first trip to nationals gave them a 4th place.