Judging at Worlds

[Kinga]

I suggest that reading the protocols really helps. I try not to leap to conclusions about the judges' decisions, until after I have seen the protocols. (I cannot resist adding, then I leap all over the place lol). They really do give some insight.

But it is not quite fun to wait for the protocols in order to understand what just happened. It should not be like that.

 

[enlight78]

But it is not quite fun to wait for the protocols in order to understand what just happened. It should not be like that.

It wouldn't be that way if we had commentators that knew what they were talking about. A little "that look short of rotation " or " that take off edge was kind of iffy" or " the stumble in footwork may lose a level" or " she didn't hold that position long enough" or "That spin could be short revolutions." Most commentators in sports are experts in the rules and strategy. The NBC broadcast team doesn't think it is important."It is just to complicated. Points Points Points." I can do there job.

 

[evangeline]

It wouldn't be that way if we had commentators that knew what they were talking about. A little "that look short of rotation " or " that take off edge was kind of iffy" or " the stumble in footwork may lose a level" or " she didn't hold that position long enough" or "That spin could be short revolutions." Most commentators in sports are experts in the rules and strategy. The NBC broadcast team doesn't think it is important."It is just to complicated. Points Points Points." I can do there job.

I agree. The British Eurosport commentators do a good job of explaining why skaters receive their scores, and they don't scream wuzrobbed the instant they disagree with the scores. I wish NBC will hire better commentators, but Scott and Sandra do a good job of trying to stir up ridiculous controversies, and controversies tend to drive up ratings. Is it just me, or does anyone else find it ironic that Scott and Sandra pine so hard for the days of 6.0 when they played such a big role in fanning the flames of the 2002 'scandal' that brought down 6.0?

I also wish they'd show how the breakdown of the PCS scores immediately when the skaters receive their marks like they used to do a couple of years ago. What happened to that? I guess they want to hide the blatant mismarking of the PCS categories until the protocols come out.

 

[TripletA]

Scott and Sandra know what they are talking about. The problem is they start these conspiracy theories on purpose.

 

[Buttercup]

I agree. The British Eurosport commentators do a good job of explaining why skaters receive their scores, and they don't scream wuzrobbed the instant they disagree with the scores.

I also wish they'd show how the breakdown of the PCS scores immediately when the skaters receive their marks like they used to do a couple of years ago. What happened to that? I guess they want to hide the blatant mismarking of the PCS categories until the protocols come out.

ITA about Simon, Chris and Nicky over on ES. At most you'd get from them something along the lines of "I don't understand that score", and they are constantly pointing out how the skaters are working to earn higher levels and better GOEs.

Re PCS, I would love to have those displayed as you suggested. They can be seen in real time on the ISU website, unlike the tech stuff that's only in the protocols.

 

[museksk8r]

It wouldn't be that way if we had commentators that knew what they were talking about. A little "that look short of rotation " or " that take off edge was kind of iffy" or " the stumble in footwork may lose a level" or " she didn't hold that position long enough" or "That spin could be short revolutions." Most commentators in sports are experts in the rules and strategy. The NBC broadcast team doesn't think it is important."It is just to complicated. Points Points Points." I can do there job.

Thank you! I think this is a big reason why interest in skating is suffering in the United States. The commentators here act like they don't know jack about figure skating under the COP system and they are so biased, so no wonder the general public views it as too difficult to understand and intolerable, and thus, unwatchable.

 

[Lucky Star]

The British Eurosport commentators do a good job of explaining why skaters receive their scores.

Oh, you're lucky! Russian channels will not show the whole competition, so I watch it online on one of the russians sport portals without commentators at all

 

[Medusa]

ITA about Simon, Chris and Nicky over on ES. At most you'd get from them something along the lines of "I don't understand that score", and they are constantly pointing out how the skaters are working to earn higher levels and better GOEs.

The German ones do that as well, and they are really good at spotting underrotations.

 

[skatingbc]

I agree. The British Eurosport commentators do a good job of explaining why skaters receive their scores, and they don't scream wuzrobbed the instant they disagree with the scores. I wish NBC will hire better commentators, but Scott and Sandra do a good job of trying to stir up ridiculous controversies, and controversies tend to drive up ratings. Is it just me, or does anyone else find it ironic that Scott and Sandra pine so hard for the days of 6.0 when they played such a big role in fanning the flames of the 2002 'scandal' that brought down 6.0?

I also wish they'd show how the breakdown of the PCS scores immediately when the skaters receive their marks like they used to do a couple of years ago. What happened to that? I guess they want to hide the blatant mismarking of the PCS categories until the protocols come out.

They (British Eurosport Commentators) were a bit confused tonight in terms of Rachael and Alissa's marks. Even so, they did it in a classy way. Just conversation, no accusations. It's nice to see that even when they don't necessarily agree with the marks, they don't go crazy and scream wuzrobbed.

 

[Ladskater]

What's going on? Is it because we don't understand COP? Or are the judges doing their jobs poorly?

Just asking what everyone thinks....seems like there's heated disagreements about the standings in different disciplines thus far.

I don't know. Kurt Browning commented that the judges for the men's short programs were "newbies" (not seasoned vets) and they went with the flashy Joubert program - not that it was the best. Kurt said Patrick Chan should have been in first place. Oh well....

 

[oxade21]

I don't know. Kurt Browning commented that the judges for the men's short programs were "newbies" (not seasoned vets) and they went with the flashy Joubert program - not that it was the best. Kurt said Patrick Chan should have been in first place. Oh well....

Kurt? the one who publicly bash Brian left and right after that bitter split?
Yeah good authority.

 

[figuristka]

Someone should be honoured if Kurt did helped with choreography. Yeah i can see the point in where Chan should have won the short but i did like Brian too.

 

[BBI*CEO]

If there is still a veil of secrecy in the way the judging can take place, would it be exclusively via the PCS scores? Something that can't be touched, seen or argued about according to protocol?

Hypothetically (or not) how would "collusion/complicity" take place with the new judging system? I feel there might be a good sized hole in the amt of power the technical specialist has - does he not have the power to place minimum values on elements for a certain skater that the judges must adhere by and base their GOE upon?

If there is the will, is there a way?

 

[flyingnun]

I am completely at sea over the ice dancing scores. I just read the entire OD thread. Half of the people on GS thought Domnina and Shabulin were great, half thought they were terrible.

Half of the people thought Belbin and Agosto were overmarked, half of the people thought they were undermarked. Same with Davis and White. Same with Virtue and Moir. Same with Khokhlova and Novitski.

There does not seem to be any objective standard at all. What can the poor judges do?

I was there for the original dance and I have to tell you that the event was scored very well. Tanith and ben skated fast, with deep edges and nice lines. The only teams I think were underscored were davis and white and samuelson and bates.

 

[Mathman]

Kurt said Patrick Chan should have been in first place. Oh well....

I think Patrick Chan is disrespecting Kurt on the quad issue. Patrick says that quad are not important. That is a slap in the face to Kurt Browning, the first man to do a quad. :yes:

 

[screech]

He's not saying it isn't important, he's saying there's a heck of a lot more to skating than a quad (a statement with which I agree).

Patrick also says he's been working on it and wants one in his program for next year, so he knows it is important. And according to an article I read a couple weeks ago, Jeff Buttle said that even a couple years ago, he saw Patrick landing flawless quads. My guess is he wants to have it more than 50% consistent before putting it in his program, which makes sense.

 

[Tigger]

If that's true about the Men's SP panel being newbies, then the ISU has disgraced themselves once again. This is the Premiere Event for the Sport *and* the determining event for the make up of the team sizes for next year's Worlds and Olympic Games and they have a panel made up of newbies judging at Worlds?

*shakes head in digust*

 

[NatachaHatawa]

Kurt? the one who publicly bash Brian left and right after that bitter split?
Yeah good authority.

I never heard of this. When was it?


Whether one agrees with the judging or not, I think there is something we can easily conlude (not that it wasn't obvious before):
The COP has had no effect in erasing subjective judging and it never will. By nature, it being a sport and an art, figure skating is subjective endlessly trying to create an "objective" judging system is nonsense.

 

[astimegoesby]

Both Kurt and Tracy commented on the inexperience of the men's SP panel after that portion of the competition on the main CBC network, and there was also an article about it in yesterday's Globe and Mail here (sorry about the very long URL):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090327.SKATEJUDGE27ART22343/TPStory/

Another interesting point is that there were no French, American, Canadian or Japanese judges on the men's SP panel. I don't know whether that was purely coincidental or a decision made to avoid national bias, but it obviously didn't prevent judging controversy. But something must be wrong if enough experienced judges can't be found from "neutral" nations (ie. those who have no highly ranked skaters in the event they're judging) to jjudge an event properly.

I'd also like to know if the men's LP judges are any more experienced than the SP panel because I'm still scratching my head as to how Brian Joubert managed to get a higher presentation score than Patrick Chan. :scratch:

 

[Mathman]

Both Kurt and Tracy commented on the inexperience of the men's SP panel after that portion of the competition on the main CBC network.

Kurt and Tracy's remarks would have carried more weght if they had been made before those inexperienced judges put the Canadian skater behind the French one.