USFS Championship, worthless title?

[Kimmie Fan]

At least for this year, USFS Champions couldn't even beat their own teammates at the World.

DB > MB
Lysachek & Mroz > Abbot
BA > DW
Flatt > Czisny (virtually certain)

Whats the cause?
Too much pressure being the US Champ?
US judges don't know how to judge?
or the boring answer...just a coincidence?

 

[Trewyn]

I was thinking the same thing last night. Pressure definitely killed off Alissa and Jeremy. Especially Alissa. All the talk about the three spots. And she's probably aware that a lot of people think she didn't deserve her title. Hell, she might even think she didn't deserve it herself! I think she might have low self esteem. That's sad, because she has good quality skating. I really hope she has the freeskate of her life tonight. But I'm not getting my hopes up. Though I'm not American, I feel bad about the US not having three spots; Sasha, Rachael, Caroline and depending on how they do in the GP circuit Mirai and/or Ashley are all great candidates for the US olympic team; it's sad that only two of them will be able to go.

 

[tully]

Part of the problem, besides the pressure aspect, is the 2-month gap between Nationals and Worlds. A lot can happen in that time.

(Such as Csisny's/Zhang's momentum going in opposite directions by 4cc.)

 

[Buttercup]

Though I'm not American, I feel bad about the US not having three spots; Sasha, Rachael, Caroline and depending on how they do in the GP circuit Mirai and/or Ashley are all great candidates for the US olympic team; it's sad that only two of them will be able to go.

I do see one positive in some of the US ladies missing out on the Olympics: I think it will make them stick around longer in competitive skating so that they can try again in 2014. Often the American ladies are in and out of senior skating so fast they never have a chance to grow as performers. Part of what made Michelle Kwan great is that she had a long career in which she could try different things, grow as an artist and leave fans with many memorable skates.

 

[luvsasha]

I don't think anyone should be down on D/W at all. sure, Alissa, Jeremy, and M/B bombed. but everyone knew that America's top dance team was Belbin/Agosto anyway and as such D/W barely losing the bronze to V/M is actually a great finish and nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Michelle'sFan]

I also think that several of those (Jeremy for one) had some awesome programs at Nationals and did deserve to win. So don't blame the judges.

Maybe the runners up felt they had more to prove so they worked harder in the off weeks. I'm sure about that with Evan. Boy, he reminded me of Todd Eldredge in 1997! The Champions had to deal with all the publicity and stuff so the 2nds got more chance to work.

In dance, I think that if B/A had been at nationals they would have won so I don't see that result as lopsided.

Michelle'sFan

 

[Trewyn]

I do see one positive in some of the US ladies missing out on the Olympics: I think it will make them stick around longer in competitive skating so that they can try again in 2014. Often the American ladies are in and out of senior skating so fast they never have a chance to grow as performers. Part of what made Michelle Kwan great is that she had a long career in which she could try different things, grow as an artist and leave fans with many memorable skates.

Very true. Look at Joannie; it took her some time, a second Olympic cycle, but she got better and better to be as brilliant as she is now!
I know Ashley sounded as if she wanted to stop competing after 2010, if she makes the Olympic team; maybe she will change her mind and continue to compete if she doesn't make the team (though I hope she does, because I'm already saving money for my Vancouver ticket ^^). I adore her and I think she has a lot to offer to the sport, so I'm all for her sticking until 2014! And Mirai, Caroline, Rachael... they're all so young! They could definitely stick around for another cycle. Maybe the US ladies will be dominant again after the Olympics.

 

[Nigel]

I also think that several of those (Jeremy for one) had some awesome programs at Nationals and did deserve to win. So don't blame the judges.

Maybe the runners up felt they had more to prove so they worked harder in the off weeks. I'm sure about that with Evan. Boy, he reminded me of Todd Eldredge in 1997! The Champions had to deal with all the publicity and stuff so the 2nds got more chance to work.

In dance, I think that if B/A had been at nationals they would have won so I don't see that result as lopsided.

Michelle'sFan

Jeremy's SP was FAB at Nationals. His long was good and with mistakes and enough to win, but wasn't clean. He deserved the win IMHO.
Keauna and Rockne have alot of work to do before next season...no doubt about it.
Tanith and Ben were not at Natls, Charlie and Meryl were the best dance team there and deserved the win, so this is not a real point of discussion.
The ladies....I think the US judges have got to re-evaluate how they score the SP at Nationals, as the LP has become less of a factor in the final placement of the top couple of skaters in the ladies event.

 

[berrycute]

I don't think it's specifically an American problem. I mean look at the evidence:

2008: Jeff Buttle, 2nd at Canadian Nationals, wins worlds
2007: Miki Ando, 2nd at Japanese Nationals, wins worlds
2006: Shizuka Arakawa, 3rd at Japanese Nationals, wins Olympics
2004: Shizuka Arakawa, 3rd at Japanese Nationals , wins worlds

 

[Trewyn]

The ladies....I think the US judges have got to re-evaluate how they score the SP at Nationals, as the LP has become less of a factor in the final placement of the top couple of skaters in the ladies event.

It's not just the US judges. Look at Yu Na's massive lead here or Joubert's at Euros and was it COR? It makes the freeskate way less interesting to watch...

 

[bekalc]

It's not just the US judges. Look at Yu Na's massive lead here or Joubert's at Euros and was it COR? It makes the freeskate way less interesting to watch...

But the lead is fair. If you take away the ability to get those kind of leads, than skaters won't take risks like 3/3's in the short program...(Just saying)

The problem though is that the US judges really held up Alissa in the long program. They could have put Rachael and Caroline over Alissa and they didn't, and it was a big mistake on their parts.

 

[Buttercup]

I think the US judges have got to re-evaluate how they score the SP at Nationals, as the LP has become less of a factor in the final placement of the top couple of skaters in the ladies event.

It's not just the US judges. Look at Yu Na's massive lead here or Joubert's at Euros and was it COR? It makes the freeskate way less interesting to watch...

The judges score the performances on the ice. Even a ten point lead is not insurmountable, considering the huge differences in LP scores. I think bekalc is probably right that there were other things that didn't work with the judging at US Nats. But the bottom line is that the SP is still worth considerably less than the LP, and a good sktaer can make up a lot of ground - like Yannick Ponsero did at Euros, where he almost won a medal despite an awful SP.

I can't speak as to Yu-Na's lead because I didn't see the last two groups, but Joubert's lead at Euros was about 5.5 points, which is not that huge. At CoR, the rest of the field skated mostly subpar programs in the SP while Joubert skated really well and got a PB. So yes, that was one case where a skater could've showed up for an LP and skated laps around the rink. But the point is, he led on merit. Unless you want to do away with the SP, I don't see what can be done about cases like that.

 

[museksk8r]

I don't think anyone should be down on D/W at all. sure, Alissa, Jeremy, and M/B bombed.

I wouldn't group Jeremy with M/B or Alissa at all. To say Jeremy "bombed" is really an overstatement. The correct term I think is he really struggled on the jumps, particularly the 3Axel in the SP and the 2nd 3Lutz in the LP, which both were downgraded. His spins, footwork, and artistic presence were stronger and crisper at the Worlds in both programs than in previous championships this season. Abbott fought back and had no real MAJOR errors until he screwed up the 2Axel+2Axel sequence at the end of his LP. Did you not see the passion he presented in his LP? That was not the artistic presence of someone who "bombed." The mens' event had so much quality and depth to it that Jeremy couldn't afford to make mistakes at this championship. That was definitely not the case in the pairs' event, which overall was really subpar. M/B and Alissa simply gave up on their programs and just overall seemed deflated . . . both had many major errors. For example, I spotted Czisny in the SP travel on her spins and her camel spin in particular had a weaker position than what I'm used to seeing from her. She didn't manage to sell her strength as well as she normally does, IMO.

I also want to add that I think Todd Eldredge and Brian Boitano telling the press that so many people are looking to Jeremy Abbott and Alissa Czisny to save the current state of the sport in the United States is putting too much pressure on them in particular. I remember reading those articles and thinking, uh oh!, just what these 2 don't need more of - pressure!, but that is an added weight that comes with being awarded a champion. Abbott and Czisny are new to these expectations and to the spotlight. Time will tell if they are somehow able to adapt.

 

[lmarie086]

Wonderful post, museksk8r. You said it all for me.

 

[chuckm]

The problem though is that the US judges really held up Alissa in the long program. They could have put Rachael and Caroline over Alissa and they didn't, and it was a big mistake on their parts.

I agree with that. I was there, and I thought Alissa was WAY overmarked in the SP as well, as a cushion to ensure that she'd win the championship.

I am thoroughly disgusted with the political manipulation of Nationals results. I felt the same way with McLaughlin/Brubaker (whom I love) being placed ahead of Denney/Barrett. D/B gave two solid performances and McL/B struggled in the FS (just as they did at Worlds).

Don't get me wrong. I like Alissa and think she is a lovely skater. But she is just NOT a good competitor and never will be, and it was a major mistake to make her US champion and subject her to that degree of pressure.

OTOH, Zhang with all her technical faults is a fierce and steady competitor, and I believe both Caroline and Rachael would have had a much better chance of securing 3 spots for Vancouver.

 

[luvsasha]

I wouldn't group Jeremy with M/B or Alissa at all. To say Jeremy "bombed" is really an overstatement. The correct term I think is he really struggled on the jumps, particularly the 3Axel in the SP and the 2nd 3Lutz in the LP, which both were downgraded. His spins, footwork, and artistic presence were stronger and crisper at the Worlds in both programs than in previous championships this season. Abbott fought back and had no real MAJOR errors until he screwed up the 2Axel+2Axel sequence at the end of his LP. Did you not see the passion he presented in his LP? That was not the artistic presence of someone who "bombed." The mens' event had so much quality and depth to it that Jeremy couldn't afford to make mistakes at this championship. That was definitely not the case in the pairs' event, which overall was really subpar. M/B and Alissa simply gave up on their programs and just overall seemed deflated . . . both had many major errors. For example, I spotted Czisny in the SP travel on her spins and her camel spin in particular had a weaker position than what I'm used to seeing from her. She didn't manage to sell her strength as well as she normally does, IMO.

Okay, maybe bombed is too strong of a word (though is it ok to say that Alissa bombed the jumps in her SP?). Sorry. :-( maybe struggled, or didn't skate as well as they could have. I do like Jeremy and M/B and Alissa too, and am sad they didn't skate so well. I just feel like the whole point of this thread was to say the 09 champions didn't do well, and i thought D/W did awesomely.

And no, i did not see Jeremy's LP because it was at like 11:30ish here and i had classes the next day.

 

[demarinis5]

Wonderful post, museksk8r. You said it all for me.

Ditto.....

 

[centerpt1]

I was disappointed Abbott didn't do better. I sure thought he would. He didn't blow the long- he skated a better long this year at worlds than last year.....it's just the other men didn't give any ground. The artistry improved, the jumps went south. Anyone else think Abbott and Mroz both were overtrained to the point they had nothing left to give when they were on the spot, under pressure?
I wonder if time is running out for Abbott- how many more learning experiences will he get before bridges are burned and he has no more support.

 

[Michelle'sFan]

I also want to add that I think Todd Eldredge and Brian Boitano telling the press that so many people are looking to Jeremy Abbott and Alissa Czisny to save the current state of the sport in the United States is putting too much pressure on them in particular. I remember reading those articles and thinking, uh oh!, just what these 2 don't need more of - pressure!, but that is an added weight that comes with being awarded a champion. Abbott and Czisny are new to these expectations and to the spotlight. Time will tell if they are somehow able to adapt.

Great post!!! In my opinion this is why the second did better than the first place finnisher. The Winner gets all the attention and can take time to get used to it. The runner up just keeps on going with what he/she is doing.

Michelle'sFan

 

[Mathman]

As for the question in the title of this thread, "Is the title of U.S. Champion worthless," I think we are looking at it the wrong way. Winning the national championship is a great achievement, an accomplishment to treasure in memory forever. Ask Rudy Galindo.

That achievement is independent of winning medals at other events such as the Grand Prix, the world championships, the Olympics, etc.