2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

[Sylvia]

If C/Z and H/H are still skating Juniors, they are still eligible for 1 Senior GP. Is that correct?

C/Z and H/H will be skating senior internationally and nationally. They just happen to be still age-eligible to compete on the JGP and at 2010 Junior Worlds.

Can you please tell me what the difference is in Juniors between the ISU and the USFS?

ISU Junior is strictly about age/birthdate. USFS Junior is a skill/test level. Quite a few U.S. skaters competed on the JGP last year and competed senior at 2009 U.S. Nationals (Bereswill, Gilles, Maxwell, Musademba, Rizo, Oi, Victorsen, Halverson, Brewster, Hubbells).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Oh well, my gut feeling is once a skaters competes in a Senior event, then that is what level he is at. If his age gives him a choice, well that is up to the skater. This just my opinion.

btw, Adam Rippon whom I discovered some time ago at MidAtlantics and thought very highly of his skating was one of those flip floppers between Jrs and Srs last season. he won juniors for the second time, and as much as I respect his talent, I was not impressed. If Juniors is a test, I suppose they had to test Adam twice.

Will the Shibutanis skate both Jrs and Srs?

 

[Sylvia]

btw, Adam Rippon whom I discovered some time ago at MidAtlantics and thought very highly of his skating was one of those flip floppers between Jrs and Srs last season. he won juniors for the second time, and as much as I respect his talent, I was not impressed.

Not impressed by his 2009 World Juniors performance or not impressed by his return to World Juniors? If the latter, well, this topic been hashed over enough, imo. The bottom line is that all skaters have to try and gain as many ISU ranking points as possible, and Rippon's only option last season post-Nationals was to compete at World Juniors again. I think it was an impressive accomplishment that he skated better in winning his second title and upped his technical ability (i.e., landed two 3A in his FS).

Will the Shibutanis skate both Jrs and Srs?

I don't know, but I am assuming they will stay junior nationally.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Not impressed by his 2009 World Juniors performance or not impressed by his return to World Juniors? If the latter, well, this topic been hashed over enough, imo. The bottom line is that all skaters have to try and gain as many ISU ranking points as possible, and Rippon's only option last season post-Nationals was to compete at World Juniors again. I think it was an impressive accomplishment that he skated better in winning his second title and upped his technical ability (i.e., landed two 3A in his FS).

I understand the regulaton of the two levels of figure skating, I just don't think it is fair to give certain skaters the chance to win two GP Finals in the same year.

When I see the new assignments for the JGPs, I will just think of them as Seniors in Juniors.

 

[PolymerBob]

Adam was in a tough spot. I mean, let's put ourselves in his position. It was Junior Worlds, or a plane ride home. He answered by becomming the first man, of any nationality, to win the title twice.

On a side note, during this past Nationals, I saw novice pairs skaters with facial hair.

 

[Sylvia]

I understand the regulaton of the two levels of figure skating, I just don't think it is fair to give certain skaters the chance to win two GP Finals in the same year.

But Rippon didn't have a chance "to win two GP Finals in the same year" because singles and dance teams aren't allowed to compete in the JGP and GP in the same season. As long as ISU rules allow GP skaters to compete at Junior Worlds, it's going to continue happening. Also, to be fair, there are countries that don't have many world-class skaters and so they end up competing on either the JGP or GP, as well as at Europeans/Four Continents, Junior Worlds and/or Worlds (like Kazakhstan's Denis Ten, age 15, this season -- 2 JGPs, 5th at the JGP Final, 9th at Four Continents, 4th at Junior Worlds, 8th at Worlds).

When I see the new assignments for the JGPs, I will just think of them as Seniors in Juniors.

Well, quite a few JGP skaters again will be seniors nationally (including many non-USA skaters) but some will be juniors nationally.

ETA: Speaking of Denis Ten, he is guaranteed 2 Senior Grand Prix assignments for placing in the top 12 at Worlds and so I assume he will make his Sr. GP debut this fall (and he is eligible to compete at Jr. Worlds through 2012!).

 

[Sinclare]

Oh well, my gut feeling is once a skaters competes in a Senior event, then that is what level he is at. If his age gives him a choice, well that is up to the skater. This just my opinion.

btw, Adam Rippon whom I discovered some time ago at MidAtlantics and thought very highly of his skating was one of those flip floppers between Jrs and Srs last season. he won juniors for the second time, and as much as I respect his talent, I was not impressed. If Juniors is a test, I suppose they had to test Adam twice.

Wow Joe, we went through this before. You keep saying you discovered Rippon. If you are his Dad, he needs a new Dad. I sent a small amount to three skater’s funds this year in early April. I in fact actually sent Rippon money after JW to his fund. Not only did I get a thank you note with a receipt but he also told me what he was going to use my measly 50 bucks on. Be impressed. The kid did two triple axels, with quality skating in high pressure, that’s senior enough for me.
I don’t think it is fair to call him a “flip flopper” just because he attended JW two times and happened to win both times. Reynolds the Canadian went four times after competing 2 years on the senior circuit, Chan also went back to JW after competing senior and finished second, on his third trip to JW. Just because they did not win they didn’t flip flop too? The rule is easy, if you are still 18 years old on the last year of June you get to compete as a junior internationally that same year, including JW. What would you have advised Rippon to do this year, stay home get no points, and get no experience as a title defender? What else were his options? Rippon and NO ONE went to the JGP final and the GP final they are separate from JW and WC.
Regarding “testing” him I think he passed, beating Gregoriev, Amodio, Ten, Oi, and a powerhouse like Brezina who skated Internationally as a senior and put out a clean program with 2 triple axels and no falls, by 17 plus points is passing a great test. I thought you were over this already, you keep saying you “discovered” him. I keep thinking I am glad you did not discover penicillin or infection would be wiping out the planet by now. We Johnny supporters who wanted Johnny to be at Worlds had to accept that Mroz earned his spot. Rippon did not take anyone’s spot at JW he earned it and came up with a score that was in the top ten of the season for ALL skaters including seniors, Martians, Undersea Creatures, etc. Maybe him not “impressing” you with two triple axels, a top ten score, and defending his tile keeps him motivated, a form of tough love from the man who discovered him. Your outrageous “anti Rippon” posts are offensive they even got the neutral posters defending him.

 

[Tonichelle]

I agree with Joe on the Jrs. & Seniors thing... either they're one or the other... it seems to me that federations take advantage of the fact that they don't follow the same age rules as the ISU so they can fudge the teams so that they still can claim the most glory in both divisions.

 

[Mathman]

...Undersea Creatures...

I think the lobster got 160.35 for his LP...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/11/05/2003995573.jpg

Edited to add: I don't think Joe meant any personal insult to Adam. Joe just thinks that once you move up to seniors you should stay there and not go back to junior competitions.

 

[gkelly]

If Juniors is a test, I suppose they had to test Adam twice.

Junior Worlds isn't a test. It's a world championship for skaters who meet the junior age requirements.

 

[R.D.]

I personally think the word "World" should be removed from the junior world meet. and just call it Junior Championships. Therefore there's no real confusion with Big Worlds.

 

[antmanb]

I understand the regulaton of the two levels of figure skating, I just don't think it is fair to give certain skaters the chance to win two GP Finals in the same year.

It isn't possible to win two GP finals in one year the rules are quite clear - a skater skating in the JGP cannot perform on the senior GP and vice vera. I think i may have read (but can't recall for sure) that there is some kind of exception if the the skater is in a different discipline so e.g. one skater in a pair could compete on the Senior GP as a pair skater but take part int he JGP as a singles skater.

EDIT : I didn't see Sylvia's post and she explains it better than I have!
Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think we all understand the Rules and Sylvia's post is fine.

What I should have said that it is possible for a skater to win the Junior GPFinal and the Senior Worlds.

The name Junior with its influx of Seniors is a misnomer, for me.

 

[antmanb]

I think we all understand the Rules and Sylvia's post is fine.

What I should have said that it is possible for a skater to win the Junior GPFinal and the Senior Worlds.

The name Junior with its influx of Seniors is a misnomer, for me.

They can but i would think it highly unlikely that a skater would win the JGP final and senior worlds. The likelihood of a skater winning worlds and not having skated on the senior GP is pretty remote to impossible (although technically possible wihtin the age limits).

I think the main issue is about age limits. The misnomer occurs because for some reason the ISU in its inifinte wisdom itself doesn't apply the same age limit to senior comeptitions - the age to compete at senior GPs is different to worlds, therefore it is entirely possible (Mao and Yuna being examples) that you skate on the Senior GP (because you are talented and want to skate to your best potential) but are too young to go to the big senior championships (4CC/European, Olympics and Worlds) so end up back at the junior worlds despite having beaten at least some (if not all) of the podium at the last senior worlds on the senior GP.

The first step to getting it right is to make the age limits uniform (up the age for the senior GP or lower the age for the senior championships).

Then it's up to each member federation how the deal with their own affairs at home. Testing never has age limits (except maybe some of the adult tracks requiring a minimum age perhaps?) and i don't think it should. You should be encouraged to mvoe onto the next level by ability not by age necessarily. It would be unfair to keep a child prodigy down and not allow them to test senior just because they're 13 or 14.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I see no reason to change my opinion because of rules. I will continue to ask "Which Senior skater will win Junior Worlds/" when the competition is set to begin.

 

[antmanb]

I see no reason to change my opinion because of rules. I will continue to ask "Which Senior skater will win Junior Worlds/" when the competition is set to begin.

I don't think anyone was asking you to change your opinion :scratch:

Ant

 

[Sylvia]

Trying to get back on topic...

U.S. skaters guaranteed at least 1 Senior GP assignment (skaters guaranteed 2 are noted but it's very likely quite a few others will get 2 as well):
8 men: Lysacek (2), Abbott (2), Mroz (2), Weir, Rippon, Carriere, Bradley, Mahbanoozadeh;
9 ladies: Flatt (2), Czisny (2), Zhang, Wagner, Nagasu, Gilles, Bereswill, Meissner, Cohen (Kwan could be a possible 10th IF she came back);
6 pairs: McLaughlin/Brubaker (2), Denney/Barrett (2), Inoue/Baldwin, Evora/Ladwig, Yankowskas/Coughlin, Castelli/Shnapir;
6 dance teams: Belbin/Agosto (2), Davis/White (2), Samuelson/Bates (2), Navarro/Bommentre, Chock/Zuerlein, Hubbell/Hubbell (note: Summersett/Gilles are #28 on the SP scores list).

 

[bottlestreet]

How about Emily Hughes? I'm guessing she is not guaranteed a GP?

 

[Sylvia]

How about Emily Hughes? I'm guessing she is not guaranteed a GP?

No. See this earlier Emily Hughes discussion thread:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27851

 

[Mathman]

Sylvia, the meeting is only four days away. How long after that before we know something? Will the entire list of GP assignments be published?