Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

[R.D.]

Thanks for sharing the pics.

 

[caaather]

thx for the pics!
the dress suits caroline

 

[Andalusia]

I'm somehow feeling positive about her chances this season, despite the "surprising" choice of coach and LP music -- the main reason being that I think she's maturing as a person. I think as she grows into a more self-assured lady, that's going to show in her skating as well. I think have more self-confidence and knowing who she is and wants to be will help her greatly in her presentation.

I think so, too. She is obviously aware that she started off last season on a bad note (she mentioned it in that blog interview), and that was probably an anomaly for her. Later on, her performances stabilized, and the results reflected how consistent she usually is. I'm sure she must've been having some problems (be they coaching or physical issues) leading up to the start of last season, and thus her momentum suffered as a result. I think she'll be moulding her outlook and training to ensure the same thing doesn't happen at the start of next season. The only difference is that, unlike at SC last year, this time around she'll really be thrown from the frying pan straight into the fire!

 

[antmanb]

Thanks so much for sharing your pics P-Bob. Nice job and some really good shots. Caroline looks wonderful - and so grown up!

That's exactly what I thought - she no longer looks like a little girl but like young lady!

Ant

 

[janetfan]

That's exactly what I thought - she no longer looks like a little girl but like young lady!

Ant

I like the first group pic here::

http://web.icenetwork.com/gen/photogallery/year_2009/month_07/day_01/cf5637152.html

Look how Caroline is towering over all of the "little ones."
She is the second tallest girl in the pic!
Seems like it was only yesterday when she was the smallest and most adorable "little one" I can ever remember seeing on skates.
It is nice watching her grow into such a charming young lady.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Seems like it was only yesterday when she was the smallest and most adorable "little one" I can ever remember seeing on skates.

That's the key word in little ladies skating,imo: Adorable. That's how they win pagaents and maybe figure skating. Would you say Tara and Oksana were adorable?

 

[janetfan]

That's the key word in little ladies skating,imo: Adorable. That's how they win pagaents and maybe figure skating. Would you say Tara and Oksana were adorable?

Not really so much, but Oksana more so than Tara. I thought Michelle was adorable when she was 13 and 14. Young Janet was beyond cute, she was a 'dream." Kimmie was like a puppy at 15.
I am not suggesting to give these "little ones" medals because they can be so cute. But if we are going to see them what is wrong with thinking they are cute???

 

[Medusa]

I am not suggesting to give these "little ones" medals because they can be so cute. But if we are going to see them what is wrong with thinking they are cute???

They are not puppies!

That's what I hate about ladies' / little girls' skating. Just listening to the broadcasts makes me sick. "Oh, she is so young, oh, look how small she is, she is barely taller than the boards" "Oh look how she can jump and spin, oh look at that adorable smile, look at her youthful energy, oh being 14 again and having this opportunity, look how she is celebrating, oh such purity and innoncence, such joy"

This obsession with little girls that seems to exist among commentators, among fans - it creeps the hell out of me!

And now add the two most horrible words on figure skating boards "puberty bug" and "puberty monster". As if turning from a little girl into a young woman is something horrible, something to be feared, something pathological.

Then read some posts among fans: Kostner's skirts are just too short. I am always like: What, lots of skaters wear skirts this short! - at some point I got what people meant: Kostner actually has a butt and long feminine legs. And that seems to be not desirable in skating. Or one post I read about DomShabs: "She is just... too big" That's your critique? That she is too big?

I have the feeling that skating fans want their ladies to be asexual, hyperflexible, adorable or supernaturally beautiful, innocent pure child goddesses. In India such goddesses exist. They are goddesses till their first menstruation. Then they are back to mere mortals. Same in skating, I guess.

Rant over.

 

[janetfan]

They are not puppies!

That's what I hate about ladies' / little girls' skating. Just listening to the broadcasts makes me sick. "Oh, she is so young, oh, look how small she is, she is barely taller than the boards" "Oh look how she can jump and spin, oh look at that adorable smile, look at her youthful energy, oh being 14 again and having this opportunity, look how she is celebrating, oh such purity and innoncence, such joy"

This obsession with little girls that seems to exist among commentators, among fans - it creeps the hell out of me!

And now add the two most horrible words on figure skating boards "puberty bug" and "puberty monster". As if turning from a little girl into a young woman is something horrible, something to be feared, something pathological.

Then read some posts among fans: Kostner's skirts are just too short. I am always like: What, lots of skaters wear skirts this short! - at some point I got what people meant: Kostner actually has a butt and long feminine legs. And that seems to be not desirable in skating. Or one post I read about DomShabs: "She is just... too big" That's your critique? That she is too big?

I have the feeling that skating fans want their ladies to be asexual, hyperflexible, adorable or supernaturally beautiful, innocent pure child goddesses. In India such goddesses exist. They are goddesses till their first menstruation. Then they are back to mere mortals. Same in skating, I guess.

Rant over.

A great rant! I enjoyed it and agree with much of it. But I am not going to feel bad for one second about thinking that Caroline is adorable. I am glad she is growing up and was happy Michelle grew up. My favorite Japanese skater is Shizuka - not cute little Mao - and Shiz is certainly a woman
And I was wrong about Kimmie - she was not a puppy - she was a frisky little colt

 

[seniorita]

whole post

i love your flow of speech

it is like gymnastics that the comments for Boginskaya was like she was abnormal size.

 

[R.D.]

whole post

Good one. ITA.

 

[beep_beep]

They are not puppies!

That's what I hate about ladies' / little girls' skating. Just listening to the broadcasts makes me sick. "Oh, she is so young, oh, look how small she is, she is barely taller than the boards" "Oh look how she can jump and spin, oh look at that adorable smile, look at her youthful energy, oh being 14 again and having this opportunity, look how she is celebrating, oh such purity and innoncence, such joy"

This obsession with little girls that seems to exist among commentators, among fans - it creeps the hell out of me!

And now add the two most horrible words on figure skating boards "puberty bug" and "puberty monster". As if turning from a little girl into a young woman is something horrible, something to be feared, something pathological.

Then read some posts among fans: Kostner's skirts are just too short. I am always like: What, lots of skaters wear skirts this short! - at some point I got what people meant: Kostner actually has a butt and long feminine legs. And that seems to be not desirable in skating. Or one post I read about DomShabs: "She is just... too big" That's your critique? That she is too big?

I have the feeling that skating fans want their ladies to be asexual, hyperflexible, adorable or supernaturally beautiful, innocent pure child goddesses. In India such goddesses exist. They are goddesses till their first menstruation. Then they are back to mere mortals. Same in skating, I guess.

Rant over.

One of the best rants ever.

I completely agree with you. It's like it's bad for a child to do what it's supposed to do: grow up.

 

[antmanb]

They are not puppies!

That's what I hate about ladies' / little girls' skating. Just listening to the broadcasts makes me sick. "Oh, she is so young, oh, look how small she is, she is barely taller than the boards" "Oh look how she can jump and spin, oh look at that adorable smile, look at her youthful energy, oh being 14 again and having this opportunity, look how she is celebrating, oh such purity and innoncence, such joy"

This obsession with little girls that seems to exist among commentators, among fans - it creeps the hell out of me!

And now add the two most horrible words on figure skating boards "puberty bug" and "puberty monster". As if turning from a little girl into a young woman is something horrible, something to be feared, something pathological.

Then read some posts among fans: Kostner's skirts are just too short. I am always like: What, lots of skaters wear skirts this short! - at some point I got what people meant: Kostner actually has a butt and long feminine legs. And that seems to be not desirable in skating. Or one post I read about DomShabs: "She is just... too big" That's your critique? That she is too big?

I have the feeling that skating fans want their ladies to be asexual, hyperflexible, adorable or supernaturally beautiful, innocent pure child goddesses. In India such goddesses exist. They are goddesses till their first menstruation. Then they are back to mere mortals. Same in skating, I guess.

Rant over.

Do you really think the commentators fawn over the young kids skating though?

I'd like to think nowadays they don't but I do remember on BBC commentary that Barry Davies in particular did go down the route you described above about Tara.

The thing I really don't understand is why it would be praised. Granted a young Tara did do the triple jumps and by all accounts was always pretty fast (swithcing from roller to ice will always do that for you!). But most of the young girls skating just don't have the power or flow that the sport really requires at the elite level.

If you go to any rink in any country at about 5pm, the rinks will be packed with tiny little girls from age 5-15 in their little dresses. I guess if you see it all the time the "novelty" of the cute little skating girls is lost very quickly, worse still if one shows up in competition i'm more likely to think she' no better than all the other little girls that i see at the rink.

But i agree with the rest of the posters that i love your rant!

Ant

 

[janetfan]

They are not puppies!

. "Oh, she is so young, oh, look how small she is, she is barely taller than the boards" "Oh look how she can jump and spin, oh look at that adorable smile, look at her youthful energy, oh being 14 again and having this opportunity, look how she is celebrating, oh such purity and innoncence, such joy"
This obsession with little girls that seems to exist among commentators, among fans - it creeps the hell out of me! .

I wonder - since I know you are more than aware that neither the broadcasters or fans are the ones who put these "little girls" out on the ice - what would you have them say?
Neither fans or broadcasters make the rules or set the age limits for ISU skating competitions. So what is a broadcaster supposed to say when a petite 14 year old skater is getting ready for her skate?
"Oh look at her, she is so small I doubt she can compete with a real lady. They should ban these pre-puberty girls from these competitions. This is setting a bad precedent. It is encouraging dirty old men to like such pure little girls. That's right and just imagine how offensive many older women will find the youth and innocence of the young girls. My, my we must cleanse skating of such an ungodly spectacle."

I did enjoy and agree with your post - but I wonder what anyone thinks about this?
Should ISU raise the age limits again? Should all men over the age of 18 be banned from watching younger girls skating?
I have no doubt that either Yuna or Mao might have medaled at Torino or '06 Worlds but they were too young by a few months to participate. So Kimmie got a shot at a post Olympic Worlds and won a WC. Is there something wrong with that? Some thought that would be Sasha's consolation prize for messing up at Toriono.
But back to my question - what should these broadcasters say announcing the skate of a 14 year old girl at a GP or Natls? And don't think for a second they want to lose their jobs.

 

[antmanb]

But back to my question - what should these broadcasters say announcing the skate of a 14 year old girl at a GP or Natls? And don't think for a second they want to lose their jobs.

Well i think it would be much better if they actually discussed the skating/programme/performance, rather than fawn over the ickle pweety girl looking like a wickle disney pwincess!!

It is a competition after all, and there are many points of comaprison with the other skaters of actual merit - jumps landed/spin levels/execution etc rather than the age or cuteness of the skater.

Just a thought

Ant

 

[janetfan]

Well i think it would be much better if they actually discussed the skating/programme/performance, rather than fawn over the ickle pweety girl looking like a wickle disney pwincess!!

It is a competition after all, and there are many points of comaprison with the other skaters of actual merit - jumps landed/spin levels/execution etc rather than the age or cuteness of the skater.

Just a thought

Ant

I absolutely agree with you. I am not so aware of this - but when I read medusa's description it sounded very familiar.
Is this coming from North American broadcasters? Or the Eurosport team?
Lately it seems I have been hearing something more like this," don't let her size or age fool you. She is a real competitior." Would that pass muster?

 

[Medusa]

But back to my question - what should these broadcasters say announcing the skate of a 14 year old girl at a GP or Natls? And don't think for a second they want to lose their jobs.

What ant says:

Well i think it would be much better if they actually discussed the skating/programme/performance, rather than fawn over the ickle pweety girl looking like a wickle disney pwincess!!

It is a competition after all, and there are many points of comaprison with the other skaters of actual merit - jumps landed/spin levels/execution etc rather than the age or cuteness of the skater.

Should ISU raise the age limits again?

My opinion on age limits, post from last year.

 

[antmanb]

I absolutely agree with you. I am not so aware of this - but when I read medusa's description it sounded very familiar.
Is this coming from North American broadcasters? Or the Eurosport team?
Lately it seems I have been hearing something more like this," don't let her size or age fool you. She is a real competitior." Would that pass muster?

I think that probably would be fine.

Some of the comments of commentators in the past would probably be ok by me. The same commentator from teh BBC i mentioned earlier, Barry Davies, made comments about Tara's performances being "quite staggering from one of her tender years" which is just about passable though the tone of voice was a little much.

He made similar comments about Kwan's performance in 1995 and asked Robin Cousins if he felt the judges held her down because of her age. Those kind of comments are fine.

Honestly I haven't heard many comments that I disagree with recently.

Ant

 

[demarinis5]

snip
Honestly I haven't heard many comments that I disagree with recently.

Ant

I agree. Since COP was implemented I hear less of these type of comments. My take on it is that the commentators have less time for fluff and silly comments because they have to pay attention to the scores and numbers so they will be able to comment somewhat intelligently to the viewing audience about what just took place on the ice.

 

[janetfan]

Here is a clip of Caroline, age 14 at her 2nd senior GP event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnFJ29VtXNk

This seems OK to me - even though the "A" word was used once.
What is apparent is some of her lack of developement and this is mentioned.
Anyone have a clip with some inapproriate "gushing" over a young skater?