Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

[R.D.]

[Kostner] is still hot mess after switching to the legendary coach, Frank.

To be fair to her, I'm not going to expect a turnaround overnight. It is a work in progress.

 

[oleada]

Frankly I think Caroline Zhang has exhausted her potential & talent. Every amateur pundit seems to suggest you can just 'fix' things so fundamental such as jumps, speed and basic skating skills. I really doubt so.

Her jumps have no height. It is what it is. It's not like she didn't try to jump high. She can try another coach, but I doubt it can make much difference.

Kostern is still a hot mess after switching to the legendary coach, Frank.

I don't think she can fix her jumps without at least taking a season off. I doubt she ever will.

 

[Andalusia]

What the judges are telling Caroline, IMO, is to fix her jumps, increase her speed and develop a connection the music, or she'll never reach the very top of the sport.

I'm sure you will be real broken up if she doesn't reach the top.

Big Caroline defender that I am, even I have to admit that she skated her LP horribly. Zero transitions (the one-foot footwork into the 2A she had at GW was gone), just skating from jump to jump and checking them off one by one, and absolutely no connection to the music whatsoever. She received a pathetic score, and rightly so. She also looked very let down yesterday even while performing, and who can blame her? I've never seen her show more attack and expression than she did in her SP, and yet people still complain that she was completely lacking in those areas. I didn't even think she was slow in the SP. She was, however, rightly criticized for her lack of improvement in the jumps.

I'm not gonna stick a fork in her just yet, though. Those who've been following her progress know that she was ill-prepared for this competition, as she had been injured (or still is), undertrained, and had generally been having a torrid time during the off-season what with the coaching changes and everything. I'll wait till at least SC to decide that she has absolutely no hope of making the Olympic team. I just worry that her not making the GP Final (this is looking likelier than ever) will impact her negatively when it comes time for the USFSA to name the team.

This is also just a feeling, but based on how sad she looked yesterday, if Caroline doesn't make the Olympic team and continues to never reach the top, I do wonder if she will leave skating completely.

 

[i love to skate]

Frankly I think Caroline Zhang has exhausted her potential & talent. Every amateur pundit seems to suggest you can just 'fix' things so fundamental such as jumps, speed and basic skating skills. I really doubt so.

Her jumps have no height. It is what it is. It's not like she didn't try to jump high. She can try another coach, but I doubt it can make much difference.

She can fix her jumps but the problem is she doesn't commit to fixing them. Look at Joannie Rochette when shefixed her lutz. She had two hard years trying to do it and fell/struggled with it often. However, look at her now! If Caroline would put that much effort into her technique she could fix it. To get more height on her jumps she needs to work on explosiveness with off ice training.

The majority of the fault lies with her coaches and to a smaller extent some judges. Her coaches should have fixed this when she first started this technique and the fact that it has continued on for so long is disgraceful. Some blame also falls on the judges who passed her in her competitive tests when she clearly did not have the technique to do so.

 

[krenseby]

I'm sure you will be real broken up if she doesn't reach the top.

Big Caroline defender that I am, even I have to admit that she skated her LP horribly. Zero transitions (the one-foot footwork into the 2A she had at GW was gone), just skating from jump to jump and checking them off one by one, and absolutely no connection to the music whatsoever. She received a pathetic score, and rightly so..

Yeah, I agree with you that the LP was lacking. I thought it was a major step down from Ave Maria, because even if that was program was denounced as cheesy (i.e the clichéd cute little princess style), Caroline did manage to connect with it and more importantly it had lots of transitions and some variety in footwork, upper body movement. Very little of that in this program.

 

[lakeshore]

She can fix her jumps but the problem is she doesn't commit to fixing them. Look at Joannie Rochette when shefixed her lutz. She had two hard years trying to do it and fell/struggled with it often. However, look at her now! If Caroline would put that much effort into her technique she could fix it. To get more height on her jumps she needs to work on explosiveness with off ice training.

.

Let's get serious here and don't live in a fantasy world. Without her wonky jump technique, Zhang probably could never have mastered a triple jump. Nobody would have known her name except a few diehards.

Do you really believe everybody can do a triple jump with a few sessions of off-ice training?



I may be wrong, but I think she's almost reached her potential.

 

[janetfan]

Let's get serious here and don't live in a fantasy world. Without her wonky jump technique, Zhang probably could never have mastered a triple jump. Nobody would have known her name except a few diehards.

Do you really believe everybody can do a triple jump with a few sessions of off-ice training?



I may be wrong, but I think she's almost reached her potential.

Did you read the post you quoted?
She said Joannie struggled for two years fixing her lutz, not "a few sessions."
You might be right about Caroline but you misunderstood or chose to ignore the post you quoted.

 

[Jasper]

Comparing her performance this week to two years ago when I saw her live at SA - is it just me or does she do the same high leg mule kick but with smaller jumps now? They seem so low and slow these days. I hope she can improve that speed and intensity across the ice. She looks like she's forcing her body so much on those jumps and I can't see how it's going to be good for her body in the long run.

 

[herro]

It almost seems like her horrible leg kick has gotten worse over the years. Now I just cringe whenever she goes into a jump. I remember first seeing her in the junior grand prix events when she dominated the field. Back then, I don't remember her technique being this bad - maybe it was because I was first mesmerized by her spins and flexibility...

I really hope she does whatever she needs to do in order to fix the technique, even if that means she has to take a season or two off. Taking some time off to come better strong would be much better than staying where she is now and struggling to make an impact in the sport. She's still very young and could still have a very good career ahead of her even if she takes time off.

If she keeps going with her technique, I'm sorry to say that she probably won't get anywhere. The best she can do would probably be just outside the medal range.

This is really depressing too because you can tell she has talent. I'm not too pleased with seeing her wrinkle her nose at the scores during Trophee... it ticked me off a little. Instead of trying to get high scores (which is not very easy given her technique) and cringing whenever she gets lower scores, she should just work on fixing it. I wonder what her coach thinks about it...

 

[kalle]

This is the second year I have seen Caroline live at TEB and unfortunately, this year was one big disapointment..
I really loved her LP from TEB last year and was quite surprised that she actually ditched that program..

I wonder if she is injured?During the warm up yesterday, she touched her right (or left) hip several times and it looked as she was in pain?But mabye I am wrong and that she was just tense..
I do not remember her being this slow last year with no smile, no fire no "attack"!!

However,she needs to get credit for being an amazing competitor, I mean she should get a gold medal for being able to land all these triple jumps from standstill or with the mule kick..I
just wish her to perform a program that forces her to get out a little bit from her comfort zone and pushes her to show more personality..I cannot beleive she has become "boring" to watch,totally different from last year

 

[Andalusia]

Thanks for your insights, kalle. :thumbsup: It's good to hear from someone who was actually there to see Caroline skate.

Here's Caroline's exhibition at TEB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dh6XvbswC0

Unfortunate music choice (I detest Miley Cyrus!), but the programme features everything we love about Caroline's skating and all that we don't. Perhaps it's just me, but doesn't it look as if she moves more surely across the ice now? And I'm surprised she got to skate in the gala as she finished fourth; I don't recall the fourth-place finisher skating an exhibition at last year's TEB.

I'm still waiting for feraina's review of Caroline's LP, and her insights into Caroline's condition and state of mind both now and during the performance of her LP, if she has any.

 

[janetfan]

Thanks for your insights, kalle. :thumbsup: It's good to hear from someone who was actually there to see Caroline skate.

Here's Caroline's exhibition at TEB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dh6XvbswC0

Unfortunate music choice (I detest Miley Cyrus!), but the programme features everything we love about Caroline's skating and all that we don't. Perhaps it's just me, but doesn't it look as if she moves more surely across the ice now? And I'm surprised she got to skate in the gala as she finished fourth; I don't recall the fourth-place finisher skating an exhibition at last year's TEB.

I'm still waiting for feraina's review of Caroline's LP, and her insights into Caroline's condition and state of mind both now and during the performance of her LP, if she has any.

I understand Caroline may not be in peak shape - but I was really disappointed to see such a bland LP. Not only was the choreo dull and predictable but Caroline seemed to be having some kind of out of body experience when she skated. I never saw a skater look so disinterested and detached from a performance and can only hope there were other factors involved.

But I see absolutely no change in Caroline and the wonky jumping technique that worked well enough when she was 4'11 and 80 pounds looks worse than ever now that she has grown.

Fortunately Caroline is such a beautiful skater that I am sure she can always find a job skating in Pro shows if she wishes to continue skating. If she doesn't take the time, and the HUGE sacrifice needed to fix her jumps then it appears any chance of winning medals at the senior level will not be possible.

I thought her Gala was lovely as ever.........

 

[Spun Silver]

I'm not too pleased with seeing her wrinkle her nose at the scores during Trophee... it ticked me off a little. Instead of trying to get high scores (which is not very easy given her technique) and cringing whenever she gets lower scores, she should just work on fixing it. I wonder what her coach thinks about it...

I had the same reaction. Class acts don't blame the judges, they accept responsibility and work on their problems. We've seen a million disappointed but mature athletes, not so many angry, resentful ones. Not a good sign from Caroline. :disagree:

 

[cornell08]

I had the same reaction. Class acts don't blame the judges, they accept responsibility and work on their problems. We've seen a million disappointed but mature athletes, not so many angry, resentful ones. Not a good sign from Caroline. :disagree:

Sadly, I'm going to have to agree. I noticed that during her junior grand prix season-- she always looked miffed at her scores for one reason or other-- even when she owned the competition. That must be the first thing they teach you at Champs Camp-- always be gracious, mature about receiving your scores. She shook her head and looked disgusted by her scores, but frankly they were reasonable. I think this is one of the reasons why USFSA loves Rachael Flatt so much-- she's gracious and always diplomatic. Ashley too. Mirai's a bit better about it than Caroline but both need to work on poster-child image issues that were cute (maybe) for juniors but not acceptable for seniors.

 

[Andalusia]

I understand Caroline may not be in peak shape - but I was really disappointed to see such a bland LP. Not only was the choreo dull and predictable but Caroline seemed to be having some kind of out of body experience when she skated. I never saw a skater look so disinterested and detached from a performance and can only hope there were other factors involved.

Oh, she sure did. I might've been imagining things, but she looked like she was holding back tears when she neared the judges during the spiral sequence. It seems she told Carruthers later that she had had coffee on an empty stomach just before her LP, so maybe that's why she looked like she was going to throw up during the LP, and skated that way, too.

Someone posted a link to the full press conference with Alissa, Ashley, Rachael, Caroline and Mirai at the recent Olympic media summit, and a journalist asked Caroline point blank what was up with her leaving Charlene so suddenly. Caroline replied that she left because she realized that she just didn't have enough time to fix her problems. This would seem to indicate that she went to Charlene looking for an overhaul, but then thought better of it since this is an Olympic season. Perhaps we'll see Caroline dump Ms. Li again to really address her issues once this season is over.

 

[Spun Silver]

It seems she told Carruthers later that she had had coffee on an empty stomach just before her LP, so maybe that's why she looked like she was going to throw up during the LP, and skated that way, too.

What was she thinking??

Is it just me or is she being very erratic? It seems like the pressure is too much for her. I hope she can find a way to handle it. Just a few more months, Caroline!

 

[Andalusia]

Sadly, I'm going to have to agree. I noticed that during her junior grand prix season-- she always looked miffed at her scores for one reason or other-- even when she owned the competition. That must be the first thing they teach you at Champs Camp-- always be gracious, mature about receiving your scores. She shook her head and looked disgusted by her scores, but frankly they were reasonable. I think this is one of the reasons why USFSA loves Rachael Flatt so much-- she's gracious and always diplomatic. Ashley too. Mirai's a bit better about it than Caroline but both need to work on poster-child image issues that were cute (maybe) for juniors but not acceptable for seniors.

I feel exactly the opposite. If she's really unhappy with her scores, I appreciate that she doesn't plaster on a shite-eating grin pretending to be happy with them when she really isn't. I detest phoniness, which is a vibe I sometimes pick up from Mirai, although that is probably totally unfounded.

If Caroline was going around sassing and giving attitude to strangers and adults, then that's a different story.

 

[R.D.]

I feel exactly the opposite. If she's really unhappy with her scores, I appreciate that she doesn't plaster on a shite-eating grin pretending to be happy with them when she really isn't. I detest phoniness, which is a vibe I sometimes pick up from Mirai, although that is probably totally unfounded.

I agree, but I'm surprised you'd pick up phoniness from nagasu. She's another one that seems rather candid in her interviews and I like that. Sick of "pretty princess skate my best" type of sound bytes- we hear those every day. Now, that said, there is a fine line, IMO, between candor and bad sportsmanship.

 

[DarkestMoon]

Well, IMO Caroline being disgusted with her scores gives an impression that she doesn't realize how severe her poor jumping technique is effecting her scores. If the judges had their way, they would have been more harsh because I don't think there has ever been an elite skater with her technique before.

Unfortunately, Caroline's faulty technique was not addressed when she was in the lower ranks because a lot of people were admiring her flexibility in spirals and spins. The longer Caroline waits to fix her jumps the harder it will be to fix them. She should consider looking for a technical coach.

 

[janetfan]

Oh, she sure did. I might've been imagining things, but she looked like she was holding back tears when she neared the judges during the spiral sequence. It seems she told Carruthers later that she had had coffee on an empty stomach just before her LP, so maybe that's why she looked like she was going to throw up during the LP, and skated that way, too.

Someone posted a link to the full press conference with Alissa, Ashley, Rachael, Caroline and Mirai at the recent Olympic media summit, and a journalist asked Caroline point blank what was up with her leaving Charlene so suddenly. Caroline replied that she left because she realized that she just didn't have enough time to fix her problems. This would seem to indicate that she went to Charlene looking for an overhaul, but then thought better of it since this is an Olympic season. Perhaps we'll see Caroline dump Ms. Li again to really address her issues once this season is over.

Thanks for your insights Andalusia.
I seriously doubt that Caroline will make it to Vancouver because even in a very mediocre US Ladies field I don't see how Caroline will be able to beat an improved Rachel, Mira, or Ashley. Or Alissa if she lands enough jumps. Sasha on a bad day, missing jumps will beat Caroline because she brings such charisma to the ice.

I still think Caroline has the talent and drive to become a senior champion but only if she leaves her comfort zone and is willing to sacrifice a year or TWO re-working her jump technique. In fact, as was mentioned by ILovetoskate, Caroline could consider thinking of Joannie as her new role model.

And don't forget, US Skating always has new Ladies on the horizon. By 2014 there are sure to be several new wonder kids on the scene.

I hate to sound so negative because I find Caroline to be such an enchanting skater. But until she accepts that she needs a major overhaul I reluctantly find myself agreeing with other posters who think she has gone as far as she can go.

I hope I am wrong and that TEB was an apparition and Caroline wins Natls - but speaking realistically and as her fan - I would rather see Caroline splatting all over the ice for the next season and half and then re-emerging as a mature senior skater with a proper jump techique.