Asada says "not changing anything"

[inskate]

I agree that Mao should find someone who could help her with her jumps... Maybe Lee Barkell... He worked with Nobu who flutzed and had no 3A, but now has the most beautiful jumps ever. And he also coached Jeff Buttle to Gold medal! And Jeff could choreograph for Mao...

 

[bekalc]

Mao landed more 3Ts, ratified 3Lzs and 3Ss under TAT's tutelage than YuNa's 3Ls under Brian's.

It's not true. Yu-na has landed just as many 3loops in senior competition as Mao has landed 3 salchows. As for 3toes, Mao's were fixed under Rafael. As for Orser, Yu-na not doing a 3loop in competition might not be do to his teaching.

I suspect from the reports I've heard that Yu-na may have a bit of a mental block when it comes to that jump. Because talk is she can land the jump on its own in practice just fine. But once she starts getting to runthroughs problems develop.

As for Orser, I agree we won't know what kind of technical coach he is until after we see him with more students. However Christine Gao has improved a lot under Orser. And I think Adam Rippon's 3axel has improved too. Sure it's still a bit inconsistent, but its better than it was before he went to Orser.

Besides Jeff may have worked with Lee but his jumps were NEVER that consistent. Sometimes a coach can only work with what he has so to speak. And I've heard reports that Orser is actually regarded by skaters as a good technical coach. Something about being good with double axels or something like that. And yes, I think likely the triple axel given how good HE was at it.

"YuNa is unjustly penalized by judges who turned a blind eye to Miki's underrotations" and the whole "Japanese skaters obstructed YuNa in practices" fiasco.

Orser shouldn't have suggested that Miki's 3loop was underrotated but there's a difference between one jump and several. As for the whole incident. I don't recall Orser being there, when Yu-na and the reporters talked, he doesn't speak Korean, so how is he in anyway responsible. Not to mention that Yu-na never said it was the Japanese skaters who were obstructing her practices.. She never pointed anyone out. But even if she did, he shouldn't be blamed for that.

 

[janetfan]

It's not true. Yu-na has landed just as many 3loops in senior competition as Mao has landed 3 salchows. As for 3toes, Mao's were fixed under Rafael. As for Orser, Yu-na not doing a 3loop in competition might not be do to his teaching.

As for Orser, I agree we won't know what kind of technical coach he is until after we see him with more students. However Christine Gao has improved a lot under Orser. And I think Adam Rippon's 3axel has improved too. Sure it's still a bit inconsistent, but its better than it was before he went to Orser.

Besides Jeff may have worked with Lee but his jumps were NEVER that consistent. Sometimes a coach can only work with what he has so to speak. And I've heard reports that Orser is actually regarded by skaters as a good technical coach. Something about being good with double axels or something like that. And yes, I think likely the triple axel given how good HE was at it.

In an interview at TEB Orser said he was pleased with Adam but that they were behind schedule due to Adam missing a month this summer because of an injury. Orser said he was not able to practice 3A's during that time and is just starting to get his rhythm back.
And Rippon looked pretty good to me at TEB for a guy at around 70%.
And Christina also won a medal that week and made her first GPF.

I think Orser is doing OK from the results we see from his skaters.
Sure, the jury can still be out but his coaching career looks to be on a path to rival his skating career.

 

[Gee]

It's not true. Yu-na has landed just as many 3loops in senior competition as Mao has landed 3 salchows. As for 3toes, Mao's were fixed under Rafael. As for Orser, Yu-na not doing a 3loop in competition might not be do to his teaching.

I suspect from the reports I've heard that Yu-na may have a bit of a mental block when it comes to that jump. Because talk is she can land the jump on its own in practice just fine. But once she starts getting to runthroughs problems develop.

As for Orser, I agree we won't know what kind of technical coach he is until after we see him with more students. However Christine Gao has improved a lot under Orser. And I think Adam Rippon's 3axel has improved too. Sure it's still a bit inconsistent, but its better than it was before he went to Orser.

Besides Jeff may have worked with Lee but his jumps were NEVER that consistent. Sometimes a coach can only work with what he has so to speak. And I've heard reports that Orser is actually regarded by skaters as a good technical coach. Something about being good with double axels or something like that. And yes, I think likely the triple axel given how good HE was at it.

Yes but Lee Barkell helped Nobunari with his flutz and gave him a triple axel. Thats a big improvement. Probably the two most vital jumps other than the infamous quad.

As much as I want Yuna to land a 3lo, I don't it'll be happening this season maybe the next season.

 

[Bennett]

At this point Mao could turn out to be carrying enough baggage, with a reputuation for being hard to coach and having an snarling big brother over her shoulder in the form of a Federation that likes to micro manage her career.

I don't think Mao has earned the reputation that she is difficult coach. She seems to have always been loved by her coaches personality and skating-wise (perhaps her preference to live in Japan may be the only (big) issue).

Lee Barkell, Takeshi Honda or Nikolai Morozov would be more likely candidates.
ETA2: Some people mentioned that Mao should move to Russia pemanently until Olympics. This is not possible. Mao is studying in Japan, and she has to attend at least some of the classes. Reportedly Chukyo was unhappy with her and with Miki when they spent too much time in America (back when Mao was with Arutunian).

I don't think Mao and Morozov get along well personality-wise. They have VERY different natures. she also abandoned a program he made for her before.

IMO, Chukyo Univ would never care how much Mao and Miki study. They built fancy rinks for them, not just one, costing them many millions of dollars, instead of using that costs for improving education for other students and research environment and employment and working conditions for fulltime and parttime faculty members. Few researchers, if any in Japan, receive that much of grant money however brilliant they may be. This show what their philosophy is as an educational and research institution. They rely on Mao and Miki as star athletes who bring fame, reputation, and money to the school, instead of focusing on a basic job for a university should be doing. Yes, they may want to make sure that Mao and Miki are connected to them. But it would not have to be in class rooms if it prevent them from getting OGM. Indeed, Mao spent far more time on rink than in class room during her high school period.

 

[Blades of Passion]

It's not true. Yu-na has landed just as many 3loops in senior competition as Mao has landed 3 salchows.

Mao has landed the Triple Salchow 4 times. Yu-Na has landed the 3Loop twice.

 

[mel66]

It seems to me that Mao doesn't know the difference between a GAMBLE and a challenge. What she is doing now...is a gamble.
Her chance of landing 3A is less than 50% at this point. I'm not saying she should entirely give up on 3A. She should keep practicing, but not on the competition.

Mao certainly is a beautiful skater. However, she puts too much of her focus on 3A and its ruinning EVERYTHING. Now, there is almost no jump that she can do without downgrades. Not only that, her spirals and spins are getting worse somehow.

Seriously, I think what Mao should do is focus on basics. I know it is hard to fix one's habit so it will take a lot of time and effort to fix edge problems. BUT rules are rules. If she does not try to follow the rules, then that means she is not professional. Just look what Miki did. I really respect Miki for that.

Before Cup of Russia, I have thought that Mao's sudden fall was all TT's fault. But now? I don't think so. Yes, TT hasn't been a great coach, but Mao is more responsible for this whole situation. She has been ignoring others' advise to practice basics. Also, she did not go to Russia for training because she had homesick (although homesick may not be the only reason, it was one of the main reasons). I feel very sad for what's going on with Mao but she needs to GROW UP. She is not a little girl anymore. Mao should face the problem, not avoid it. And that is a challenge.

 

[hikki]

What happened to Mao's 3-3? She did two 3-3s in her LP when she won Worlds in 2008.
The way for Mao to compete seems so simple to me: cancel the 3A, include a 3-3 and do at least 6 triples. Yu Na is not perfect. She doesn't have a consistent 3-loop and in her last two competitions, including her gold medal skate at Worlds, she only did 5 triples. Mao can match that--or she could at one time--and can likely beat it. Mao definitely beats Yu Na on spirals and I think on spins and footwork, also. Unless Mao wants to hand Yu Na the OGM right now, she needs to make some changes in her jump layout and forget about the 3A, which is a killer unless it can be landed consistently.

I guess the Mao/ Yu-Na comparison is inevitable given they have been the biggest rivals in the past seasons. Anyway I agree with you that Mao has the ability to beat Yu-Na. Right now I see them as:

Mao > Yu-Na
Lines, flexibility, soft knees, more 'raw' and 'authentic' presence, 3 axels when she nails them, spins when she fully rotates them, more intricate step sequence.

Yu-Na > Mao
Stable edges, footworoks into jumps, more 'cath-ey' and 'forward' presence, huge, consistent and correct combos, speed although this season she's slower going into the new 3/3 but doesn't slow down till the end, more efficient step sequence, self awareness, smart supporting team.

The frustrating thing about Mao, like so many of you have mentioned, is that she's got more goods but with lesser quality or not effeciently presented enough. Like her beautifully extended spiral (with unstable edges, insufficiently held), great spins (laid out tightly into the programs often rushed, leaving little opportunity for us to go 'wow'), the wtf step sequence (too long, often making her tired, too many twizzles), etc.

Let's hope she gets her 3/3s and consistency in general back, and modifies the programs a bit so her strentghs shine.

And at the end o the day she doesn't owe me or anybody anything so I'll enjoy the drama of it all!

 

[prettykeys]

I like your post, hikki!:thumbsup:

 

[hikki]

Tarasova giving in?

• The current head of JSF, Ms Seiko Hashimoto, has stepped in and expressed concerns saying, "Mao needs people who guide her to the right direction, not just those who agree with her. I'm willing to speak to her and her team personally, if need be.
• Trasova discussed with Mao at the night of the COR FS for 1 hour. Tarasova 'showed hesitation' (I guess it means she went "It's not working- Do you wanna change some things?")
• Mao insists on not changing the music or the 3 3axel plan
• They plan to 'loosen up' the in-betweens
• Tarasova approached Ms Noriko Shirota, the former head of JSF support team and whom she kept distance from, to seek consultation
• JSF trainer Mr Kato says it was evident in her COR SP where she got all L4 for her spins (in TEB she missed some) that the minor modification of the in-betweens worked and she should continue to do so

On Ms Hashimoto
On Tarasova giving in
On her spins

Noriko Shirota is the infamous power woman behind Shizuka's World title and OGM. She's the main force in ditching Callahan (to whom many people give lots of credit for Shiauka's achievemnt btw) for Tarasova right before '04 Worlds, and assisted her in parting with Tarasova for Morozov right before Torino. While Shirota is known for her accomplishments, she has also been questioned for her rather pushy ways.

Very interesting Tarasova approached someone like Shirota.

 

[Tinymavy15]

This is interesting. I don not know if Mao or Tat is more to blame for this disaster, but I hope that somehow it works out. Mao is too great of a talent for this to happen.

 

[skatingbc]

I'm not sure if someone has posted this already, but Kurt Browning said on the CBC coverage of COR, that Mao almost exclusively works on 3axels during practice. That doesn't seem like good strategy to me. Any comments?

My favourite part of that coverage was when Kurt said, "Mao is skating to 'The Bells of Moscow', a happy little tune."

 

[Tonichelle]

My favourite part of that coverage was when Kurt said, "Mao is skating to 'The Bells of Moscow', a happy little tune."

Why couldn't he be American so he'd be on our commentary team(s)???

Love him.

 

[skatingbc]

Why couldn't he be American so he'd be on our commentary team(s)???

Love him.

David Pelletier's not American, but he's no Kurt!

 

[jaws12345]

Mao > Yu-Na
Lines, flexibility, soft knees, more 'raw' and 'authentic' presence, 3 axels when she nails them, spins when she fully rotates them, more intricate step sequence.

Says who??

more 'raw' and 'authentic' presence --> Huh?

Is this thread going back to the good ol' Mao vs Yu-Na thing?

Please, back to the main subject, guys.

 

[Tonichelle]

David Pelletier's not American, but he's no Kurt!

true, and Kurt was part of teh ABC/ESPN team

and way back when he worked for NBC... until he made a comment about MK's program that they deemed inappropriate... *facepalm*

could you imagine both Kurt and Scott in the booth together??? (maybe that's teh real reason he's not signed to the team and David was.)

 

[skate4ever]

could you imagine both Kurt and Scott in the booth together??? (maybe that's teh real reason he's not signed to the team and David was.)

Hey Toni (or anyone else), just for the fun of it,
do you have a general idea about the personal relationships among Kurt, Scott, Orser and Boitano?

 

[hikki]

I'm not sure if someone has posted this already, but Kurt Browning said on the CBC coverage of COR, that Mao almost exclusively works on 3axels during practice. That doesn't seem like good strategy to me. Any comments?

My favourite part of that coverage was when Kurt said, "Mao is skating to 'The Bells of Moscow', a happy little tune."

Browning and Wilson (especially Browning) have said very nice things about Mao in the past so I don't think they dislike Mao or anything, but I get the impression that sometimes they're just in love with their own voices rather than skating! Alright, they disagree with the Mao camp, I get it. Everyone does! But they don't have to go on and on about it with sarcastic lines. While I agree the Rachmaninoff piece isn't best suited to Mao, his comment makes me think that he only appreciates certain types of music and just can't accept different types? On a side note Wilson is so loud you'd think she's better suited to a quiz show host.

At least when Dick Button went over the top I could tell he was just overwhelmed with his love of the sport so it didn't annoy me.

Ok I feel better now

As for Mao's practice at TEB, you'll be the judge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb8dTY4Xr0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1XLwq6kzog&feature=related

 

[Tonichelle]

personal relationships? All I can go on is interviews, 'backstage moments' at events, and their books.

They all seem pretty friendly with one another. Kurt and Boitano had a friendly rivalry in the pro ranks, but there's a general friendship that seems to not be affected. Kurt and Scott were known as partners in crime on the SOI tours... and Kurt idolised Orser.

Scott wrote in his book with Kurt being one of two to go with him to the hospital to get checked out before he was diagnosed with cancer in 96/97... and he and Orser were the ones who deemed Kurt as "Skate God Jr." bringing him into their "club/game" of giving a title of "skate god for a day" to each other... Boitano was nipping at Scott's heels in 1984 and basically demanded to be part of his welcome back to the ice special after he won his battle with cancer in the 90s...

the only ones I'm not sure of are the two Brians...

*shrugs* but like I said, I have to go by what they've said/done... I don't know any of them personally.

At least when Dick Button went over the top I could tell he was just overwhelmed with his love of the sport so it didn't annoy me.

Right, that's why only his opinion mattered. Kurt's the only commentator that would go toe to toe with him and didn't just let him walk all over him.

and to suggest Kurt (and Tracy) doesn't love their sport is absurd.

 

[cosmos]

I sincerely doubt Mao will go to Orser. He is not the most popular coach in Japan after his "YuNa is unjustly penalized by judges who turned a blind eye to Miki's underrotations" and the whole "Japanese skaters obstructed YuNa in practices" fiasco.

I understand that, but Orser did his job as YuNa's coach. Similarly, TT was criticized by Koreans due to her assertion "It doesn't make sense YuNa won over Mao. She didn't even attempt 3A." (She said in Russian of course). I don't blame her, because she did her job as Mao's coach.

BTW, Orser has nothing to do with the "OBSTRUCTION" thing.