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- Jun 5, 2009
... after VancouverMaybe I go to Tallin and I ll go with a spaghetti menu!
Plushenko will honour us with his presence in 2010!
- Thread starter skatingbc
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- Mar 13, 2005
Well, since I spoke to Tomas about Plushenko personally at TEB and also other occasions, maybe I can add something. I wasn't at the press conference myself and I had this written by someone else, and I was already afraid some small parts would stirr up something...
You know Tomas has a lot, a LOT respect for Plushenko. He is a big fan of Plushenko especially in his earlier days. He said he's still zomg! about his 3A-1/2lp-3F combo at the olympics in 2002 and lurves the programs of Plushenko in 2001/2002/2003 especially. He also says here that he does not find himself the person to really critisize Plushenko. However, when he was watching recent programs of Plushenko he was a bit dissapointed. Of course he said he would love it, if he could jump like Plushenko because that is just amazing...but he missed some choreography and transititions and perhaps some kind of background and he wasn't that impressed with the footwork either. I think it was a bit frustrating for him that eventhough there were a lot of things missing, Plushenko still did get all the points for it, as if everything were there. He himself might really never skate clean (I always do still hope that one day, when it matters, he will...), he does always try to make an interesting program, to have a story and good, new, interesting footwork.
and in Czech press articles there is this quote:
"Viděl jsem jeho jízdy na videu. Po technické stránce je skvěle připraven. Ve skocích byl stoprocentní. Ale v dalších komponentech si myslím, že ještě ztrácí a není to úplně ono. U rozhodčích těží ze svých předešlých úspěchů. Snad se to časem změní,"
"I saw his skates on video. On the technical side he was very well prepared. If you look at his jumps he was at 100%. But if I look at the other parts of the skate, I think he is still losing and it wasn't "all that" yet. but he had a certain advantage by the judges because of his previous success. Maybe things will change with time"
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- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
I think Verner should lodge a formal complaint to ISU about Plushenko's inflated scores at RC instead of grumbling at a press conference. Verner does think Plushenko's past glory always puts him in an advantageous position over other strong competitors at big events? To be frank, I never consider him to be a match with such skaters as Brian, Stephane, Oda and Chan, let alone Plushenko. I guess he might forget how much he was boosted at 2008 Worlds by the judges in terms of PCS when he fell apart in his LP.
BTW, what is the press conference for? In response to Plushenko's opening show?
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- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Thanks for the additional info. I still wish the guys wouldn't complain about each other's marks (it's not just Tomas), but it's good to have a bit more context.
Tomas, if he skates his programs as he's capable of doing, is not only a match for all the current top guys - he is quite possibly better than them. The problem, of course, is that he tends towards Hidden Czech skates. As for 2008 Worlds, this is similar to Caro Kostner in 2009: just because the jumps aren't there doesn't mean the PCS necessarily has to suffer; jumps are reflected in the TES, and it's possible to have great skating skills and do the planned choreo and interpret the music well even without them. Personally, I have erased that skate from my memory so I can't comment further. My thoughts on Verner's comments appear here.
The press conference to me looked like a standard early season event: tell us about your programs/coaching/rivals etc.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2005
No, in this case. He never said always, or at big events., Neither did I and neither does he compare himself with any other skater (because personally, I know he would never daaaarrreee to compare himself to Plushenko!!), or say something about how he has been judged in the past. Maybe he also thinks he was held up in 2008? Do you know?
This press conference was for the Czech press, to re-cap TEB and look forward towards SA. He was in Czech rep. for a few days, so they took advantage of that, since this doesn't happen very often. That way all czech media would be informed at once...you know
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
Well he can compare to Plush now, Tomas if he skates clean could beat all because he is a dancer on ice plus he has all the jumps! His quad is not a problem for him, he loses focus as program goes by which is stupid to land a quad and then double the easy ones. If he does good in SA his confidence will go Up! But I think all top skaters once they reach a medal or *prove* they are among the top get a helping hand (or two) in pcs afterwards. Look Oda's sp in Teb and CoC. Not that he didnt deserve them, he totall did, but judges are more generous once they have seen someone medal and keep consistent. After last year I would never thought of Oda as a possible OC but look how he came back and he is really good!
Plushenko just reached among the top too early and there was a big hype around his name back then and judges are judging him for a decade now. As dick button have said He gives them what they want, he doesnt disappoint them and they reward him for that, whatever that means..
not that I think this time he will be as gifted as in Torino unless he fixes his programs - which I trust Mishin he will analyze his GP results to death. Under this system, programs should gather the maximum points not necessarily being the most beautiful. Isnt it the goal now?
But i watched his practice and you can see all his dedication to his comeback and all his ballet preparation before taking the ice and I saw some different choreo which he didnt do at the competition, although I warn you some moves stay , lol!
Anyway we will never agree about Plush, as Kozuka said he has olympic presence and you need to see him live basically because I truly think live you can appreciate the things he is amazing at (yes and the hip thrusting too, i had a good seat at Rostel)
Plushenko just reached among the top too early and there was a big hype around his name back then and judges are judging him for a decade now. As dick button have said He gives them what they want, he doesnt disappoint them and they reward him for that, whatever that means..
not that I think this time he will be as gifted as in Torino unless he fixes his programs - which I trust Mishin he will analyze his GP results to death. Under this system, programs should gather the maximum points not necessarily being the most beautiful. Isnt it the goal now?
But i watched his practice and you can see all his dedication to his comeback and all his ballet preparation before taking the ice and I saw some different choreo which he didnt do at the competition, although I warn you some moves stay , lol!
Anyway we will never agree about Plush, as Kozuka said he has olympic presence and you need to see him live basically because I truly think live you can appreciate the things he is amazing at (yes and the hip thrusting too, i had a good seat at Rostel)
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
When some skater suddenly burst onto the scene winning a gold medal at some event, the whole world would speak in the same voice:"OMG, a new star was born!'' After that, he just went downhill, and his supporters would excuse him by saying "He is an inconsistent skater, and if he can get over his mental problems, he will be unbeatable at the competitions ahead.'' To my mind, such version is really laughable. If you cannot deliver your progrms under great pressure at big events, it will be pointless to compare you with the real champions. For me, Verner is only a flash in the pan. That's all.
With regard to PCS, "just because the jumps aren't there doesn't mean the PCS necessarily has to suffer", if skating programs are to be rated this way in the near future, it will be the end of this sport, doubtless! You see what sport really means?
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
I'll repeat: jump content is reflected in the TES. It is possible to have crap jumps and still do great choreo and transitions.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
I think you are fully aware that the PCS of any skating program is based on its technical merits, or more precisely, on the execution of the program. In other words, the judges are very much unlikely to hand out the PCS independent of the whole program a skater presented.
IMHO, choreography and transitions are the things too subjective and obscure, which are viewed from different angles by different judges. Nobody knows what they really mean, actually.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
My personal opinion on this is that falls on jumps do disrupt the execution, performance, interpretation and choreography of a programme, i think multiple falls could also affect the skating skills mark as you have to stay on your feet to produce a good programme.
Under-rotated jumps and popped jumps, for me, should not affect the PCS because ultimately benig one or two revolutions less in a jump takes nothing away from the choreography, interpretation etc - in terms of placement and timing of a jump from a PCS perspective i'd say a jump is a jump is a jump. Whether it's a quad toe, or a single toe, most skaters jump more or less the same hieght they just pull in harder and rotate faster for a higher revolution jump.
I'm not entirely sure how the judges look at it though.
Ant
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
I disagree with you on this point. You know, different judges have different tastes when marking skaters' programs. Judging is not a gift-giving but a point-earning process. Plushenko is neither a quad king nor a jumping machine. He just sells his programs in a thrilling and splashing way. Such power, such passion, indescribable, and incomparable. Simply great!
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
lushenko is neither a quad king nor a jumping machine. He just sells his programs in a thrilling and splashing way. Such power, such passion, indescribable, and incomparable. Simply great!
Wow you and Nadine are really taking my crown of best plushy fan
I never said he was the quad king or jumping machine, are you sure you need to explain that to me?
Oh but he is just the King, lol! For many many things but mostly for me for having a little star above his mullet of a great sportsman, I m still in my pink cloud after Rostel, please be patient with me, I will get down at some point
Jntfan being the Plushenko was not always as easy as it sounds.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
Obvious what? Obvious truth? Plushenko's LP PCS at RC are only more than 76 points, in which 6.95 is for the transitions of the program, obviously not a good mark. What do you think is the correct evaluation on his programs, then?
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
Wow you and Nadine are really taking my crown of best plushy fan
I never said he was the quad king or jumping machine, are you sure you need to explain that to me?
Oh but he is just the King, lol! For many many things but mostly for me for having a little star above his mullet of a great sportsman, I m still in my pink cloud after Rostel, please be patient with me, I will get down at some point
Jntfan being the Plushenko was not always as easy as it sounds.
You are the No.1 Plush fan in the world！You even tracked him down in Moscow and watched him performing live at RC.:thumbsup: What an experience for a lifetime！
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- Jun 3, 2008
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- Oct 30, 2009
It's not a good mark for a reigning Olympic Champion, of course. His transition marks should range from 5 to 6, right? If so, the whole skating world will be definitely stirred up a bit.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Please God, dont let Ant answer this question
Actually a reply from ant (whether about Torino or last week's COR) would be interesting.
My remarks were not meant to pick a fight - as I am a Plushy fan and a Mao fan.
I think they are both fabulous skaters - but I still think their respective marks should not be based on reputation - and only hope to see fair and unbiased scoring for them and the skaters they are competing against.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
Don't compare PCS from different competitions. Don't we all remember last season - big PCS for skaters at Skate America and Skate Canada - and suddenly the PCS took a nosedive for everyone. E.g. Weir got 5 or 6 points less PCS on his long program later in the season for basically the same performance.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2009
You are entitled to your opinions. If you think Plushenko's marks are too high at this stage, I will have nothing to add.
