Plushenko will honour us with his presence in 2010!

[skatingbc]

He also held up the number 1 sign during his performance. Does Michael Phelps do that when he starts his last lap of the race? Of course not!

Wouldn't it have been funny if after he did that, he fell flat on his face during footwork or a spin or something. I know, I know, I shouldn't wish bad things on people, but I still think it would have been hilarious. When Joubert fell on his double axel at Worlds, even though I don't like his skating too much, I felt bad. If it was Plushenko...I would laugh, just cause he's too darn cocky!

The Problem is that even if he fell, he probably still would have won.

 

[seniorita]

ah home sweet home
Tomas should post this also to the ISU site and make his complaints to judges.
Evgeni uses the advantage???HOW exactly?I really want to know that.
He was judged in different competitions, with different competitors and different judges for years.
Skaters work hard to make their programs, sure, does Tomas implies that Plushenko just walked back to this level in a day?
This is his first skate after 3 years and we wait to see how he goes from now. Were we all so harsh in the first skate appearance of the other top skaters???Or for them there is the excuse of the early season?
Plushenko himself said in press conference that he doesn't have the stamina yet to skate full a clean program with all the necessaries. He commented on his non choreo and no transitions. People are stuck in his number one thing, he talked a lot after his lp , maybe you can watch it. I can understand if someone doesnt like his skating,his programs, his style or whatever but he got his jumps back, he sort of fixed his sitspin, his camel is gorgeous, he tried to introduce the new rules of footwork and he skated decently for his first appearance. Not even close to perfect skate. He has flaws as any other skater I can think of.
Tomas if he goes clean with a quad in his short and long can beat a clean Evgeni now, same applies for Takahashi, Oda and Lambiel and Chan without a quad. Marks so far showed it. So Tomas can work on his Godfather program which was great and answer Plushenko on the ice.
It is the easy way to have a caramel every time and using it of Plushenko sucked and was overmarked, in my opinion it diminishes the effort of an athlete and he does no less effort than Tomas said that the others do.
Judges should do their job as plushenko does his..addressing negative to a skater because judges didnt do their job correct is not right, just my opinion.
If he gets reputation marks, well he earned his reputation and not in an easy way. He skates consistently on podium since before the olys 1998. If judges cant get over his reputation- it is not his business. Maybe there should be a worldwide seminar for judges " how to get over Plushenko', but it is not an athlete's business how they mark him.

 

[Medusa]

It is the easy way to have a caramel every time and using it of Plushenko sucked and was overmarked, in my opinion it diminishes the effort of an athlete and he does no less effort than Tomas said that the others do.
Judges should do their job as plushenko does his..addressing negative to a skater because judges didnt do their job correct is not right, just my opinion.
If he gets reputation marks, well he earned his reputation and not in an easy way. He skates consistently on podium since before the olys 1998. If judges cant get over his reputation- it is not his business. Maybe there should be a worldwide seminar for judges " how to get over Plushenko', but it is not an athlete's business how they mark him.

I agree with most what you say. And Verner, I like him, but perhaps he should try to do a clean competition for like the first time in his career, win a World medal - before he starts talking big. And telling the judges how they should mark the direct competitors is just weird, it's what Chan did at Worlds. It's like they are saying: However this skater skates, he doesn't deserve the marks / medal / win anyway, because the judges overmark them.

And all those antifans will always say the same thing about Plushenko, and you will never get them to change their minds. They will also keep on harping on the same things, even if he manages to change some stuff, like the sitspin. Just like they keep saying about Joubert that he has atrocious spins, he probably could start spinning like Czisny, and people would still say that he has atrocious spins.

What I also find funny is that if the general figure skating fan population hates a skater, they pick on any tiny little thing and never see the good stuff. E.g. Plushenko has a really nice camel position, pure ballet. Joubert also has an excellent camel with a very good line. But most people will never even see it, nevertheless admit it. But if a skater is generally liked, people won't even notice such flaws - e.g. both Rippon and Lambiel have a camel spin with a rather mediocre position, Rippon's especially isn't an attractive camel at all, and even looks shaky.

Could you please put breaks in your posts when you write such long ones? Pretty please?

 

[seniorita]

yes i will do that

sorry, moscow trip and all, too emotional loaded

I like Verner too, alot, but he had whole 4 years to win anything he wants apart from Euros with his difficult *all around* programs, without being bothered by overscored Plush and his *jump programs* in competitions.

any skating fan, i wish them their fav will give them as much joy as evgeni generated this weekend to his fans, oh ...and they are pretty many! I talked about his programs in other thread but I m really proud of Plushy comeback overall! Evgeni thanked his fans and his antifans in his press conference, so if people keep commenting on his weak things, he will maybe fix them all, lol! Along with Joub, he probably could start spinning like Czisny as well!

If i could I would buy a doll house christmas thing and put Plushy inside turning around in the camel position, this is my fav element of his, shows all his russian training ballet.

His exhibition was the highlight for me, and he looked so happy

Another highlight was the standing ovation at the end of his Lp, and also amodio's lp, kozuka 's sp, davis/white program, alissa's sp and pang/tong sp and lp, and before i forget I adore Japanese and Korean skating fans, they are the best
I loved Johny's sp, is it weird?

Moscow highlights along the museum galleries is the colorful church and the cherry blinis

I love your new banner AGAIN! Time to make one myself, King is officially back!Maybe I ll use the image with the finger:think:

I saw this video tonight, happened after competition, I have no idea why Plushenko skates here to requiem for a dream, why he doesnt choose this music for Lp? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2MnfSI_pe4

 

[Tonichelle]

I honestly don't recall what he used to do with sit spins, but I didn't see an amazing sitspin... teh hype had me really hopeful... seemed like the same as always Evgeny... which is good - I guess - for his chances at gold... but kind of disappointing after all the hype about how much better he was.

 

[Buttercup]

I agree with Tomas that there shouldn't be so much variance between judges' scores on the various components; it is strange, and certainly goes against the claim that the new system, in its attempt to quantify everything, is more objective. Of course, that's not news .

Although I also agree that the scoring by some judges was a bit generous, I think it's inappropriate to discuss your opponents' scores, unless you have evidence of misconduct by the judges, and then that should be taken to the appropriate channels. There is no such evidence here; merely some over-excited judges - something I hope will get better as the excitement of Plushenko's comeback wears off. Anyway, I can understand the frustration some skaters feel - as though they're not on a level playing field - but while it is ok to say "I was undermarked" (which I think Verner has been on occasion, e.g. the SPs at Worlds 2009 and TEB 2009 ) everyone should steer clear of "he was overmarked" (I'm looking at you, Mr. Chan and Mr. Ponsero). I guess maybe that's what passes for a mental game among the current lot?

I would be curious to see a transcript of the news conference to get a better idea of the context and Verner's actual comments. In the report, some things are quoted directly and some are paraphrased, so I'm not really sure what he was getting at.

"When the ISU changed the judging system, I was hoping that the judges would follow it and judge what they actually see and not according to name or fame, or in this case according to who Plushenko was when he left the scene. Still, Plushenko is the reigning olympic champion and with that he has a certain advantage over others, which he uses. "

"You could see from the protocols that the judges were not exactly unanimous about it. There were some judges obviously on the side of Plushenko and some not. I think some judges were not exactly objective when watching him skate. One judge would give him a 6.5 and the other would give him an 8, something is not right here, there should not be such a big difference." Tomas believes that skaters these days work hard to make their programs as difficult as possible, focusing on all sides of skating and not just the jumps. Unfortunately he did not register that in the programs of Plushenko.

Seniorita, did you get my message from a couple of days ago?

 

[seniorita]

I honestly don't recall what he used to do with sit spins, but I didn't see an amazing sitspin... teh hype had me really hopeful... seemed like the same as always Evgeny... which is good - I guess - for his chances at gold... but kind of disappointing after all the hype about how much better he was.

It is like Weir starts jumping quads and we comment that they are not as pretty as ponsero's.... It is not an amazing sitspin but it is far better than before..thats the point. He got his butt down and he is faster, especially on his good side. Plushenko was not strong in sitspins so any improvement is good.
I dont think he has reached 2006 level yet, but if Evgeni becomes same as always level, it will be an achievement already.
B i just opened mails, I got back yesterday.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I don't think Plushenko's sit-spin has improved at all.

He gets down lower, but his positions look worse to me (the speed has not improved either). The "cannonball" position he is currently attempting in the sit spin looks absolutely awful and slows the spin down too.

 

[Noondarkly]

Wouldn't it have been funny if after he did that, he fell flat on his face during footwork or a spin or something. I know, I know, I shouldn't wish bad things on people, but I still think it would have been hilarious. When Joubert fell on his double axel at Worlds, even though I don't like his skating too much, I felt bad. If it was Plushenko...I would laugh, just cause he's too darn cocky!

The Problem is that even if he fell, he probably still would have won.

Funny you should mention that... when Joubert fell (almost literally on his face) it was probably one of the nicest things I have ever seen. He deserved the fall for all his past arrogance.

So now Plushy is happy to return, LAND HIS QUAD-TRIPLE COMBO, land his triple Axel, happy to skate clean, and what, after several years he's back and the audience is happy and he is not allowed to be a little arrogant? Excuse me. Double standard. Always hated it.

Double standard also regarding the jumps. Now Plush is talking Joubert-language (aka, focuses on jumps) and the world, lo and behold, doesn't like it. Ha! Interesting.

Anyway. I am thrilled with his return. Thrilled with the LP. Thrilled with his obvious happiness to be able to compete and still be good at it.
I do not think the finger-raising was part of the choreography. He was just so damn happy he landed the jumps.
I remember Joubert's fist-pumping (now that is sometimes part of his choreography, I believe, in other forms) and I wonder why this upheaval at this ONE time show of arrogance with Zhenya.

WE LOVE YOU ZHENYA, let them all talk.

 

[Medusa]

Funny you should mention that... when Joubert fell (almost literally on his face) it was probably one of the nicest things I have ever seen. He deserved the fall for all his past arrogance.

I find both skatingbc's and your post extremely tasteless. If you want to go around and be disgustingly nasty, try youtube or a certain other skating forum.

 

[Noondarkly]

I find both skatingbc's and your post extremely tasteless. If you want to go around and be disgustingly nasty, try youtube or a certain other skating forum.

I have to agree.
I didn't start it!
But I will finish it.
(PS: I hope other people would have also noticed how tasteless skatingbc's post was, without my similarly tasteless reply.)

May the better one of them all win.

 

[seniorita]

I forgot my most important observation of rostel.
The future of Russian men figure skating looks very promising. All-and when i say all I mean ALL-little flower boys have copy-paste the haircut of plushy
It was so obvious it cracked me up!

 

[plushyta]

I'll tell you what I told a fan of another skater who asked why I was being so critical of that skater: because this is not a fan forum. We are all here to discuss skating, not to be 100% positive. Since Plushenko is a frequent subject of discussion - those of us who like his skating will explain why, and those of us who do not will offer their own opinion.

I'm trying to prove, that most of you, no have new arguments against him ... just repeat the old one and the same subjective statements, which only reflect - that you not like his skating, and cheering for someone else.

Now tell me - has Plushenko attracted more criticism than Patrick Chan? Brian Joubert? Evan Lysacek?

Sorry, but I do not understand you best - you ask me why he attracted more criticism than other skaters, or and this skaters have their critics? :scratch:
If you asked me first, my answer is: maybe because this is an American forum?
If you asked me second question - I do not know what is happening on the other topic, since I'm not going to them. I dont like offend other skaters, or their skating - that do not allow me my good behavior.
You know what to say: "If you do not have something nice to say, do not say anything"

I will pretend I didn't read that stuff about Brian and Tomas. To say Tomas has no charisma . My god, what skater are you watching?

Interestingly, I wonder the same thing, when it comes to Plushy

 

[Buttercup]

I'm trying to prove, that most of you, no have new arguments against him ... just repeat the old one and the same subjective statements, which only reflect - that you not like his skating, and cheering for someone else.

Well, if that's how you look at it, you're not adding anything new, either - just how much you like his skating . And that's no less subjective than disliking his skating, so why is only that sort of reaction of value in our discussion? For better or worse, little about Plushenko's skating has changed since he last skated so some of the same points will be reiterated.

If you asked me second question - I do not know what is happening on the other topic, since I'm not going to them. I dont like offend other skaters, or their skating - that do not allow me my good behavior.
You know what to say: "If you do not have something nice to say, do not say anything"

I don't think the percentage of critical vs. uncritical posts is different for Plushenko than for the other skaters I mentioned; it's the volume that's higher. Also, I'm not North American, and neither are many of the posters here.

I have no problem with being critical if it's not just for the sake of being mean. I'm not here to do nothing but gush, and I don't think I should feel bad about it. If you don't read other topics, why do you want to be on GS? I'm not trying to get rid of you, but I'm genuinely curious why you would come to a general skating forum if you are interested in only one skater. Surely if you're a skating fan there are other subjects of interest? More skaters that you like?

 

[plushyta]

I dont want to answer on all bashing comment separtly, against Plushy... this is my comment on alll that

About finger No.1...
He deserves this behavior (because of all his previous medals and achievements), especially in its first competition, and after so malignant comments against him, as in Russia, as and here :yes:
... also, it is primarily intended for local public in Russia... and as encouragement to itself - you think that he is not just a simple man? You think that he does not feel bad vibration around him, because his return? :indiff:

Briefly:
:agree:
- I like how he skate
- I like how he looks
- His charisma on the ice his ARTISTRY.
- His "flying arms" are his style.
- Nobody else not had nor trunk his nerves and consistency, and it proves almost a one decade.
- His "improvisation" in choreography is his advantage, because he can afford due of his geniality on the ice (by me), unlike the other skaters, which skating just as someone "drew" to them.
- His arrogance on the ice is his right... who this like - like, who does not - it is his right

:scowl:
- I do not like because the other skaters start's with pressure on judges, that marks him down.
- I do not like that fans of other skaters now "haranged" around, and spread a bad atmosphere against him - it is not fair play in terms of sport, nor it is cultural.
- I do not like constantly repeating the same criticism, as type: flying arms, lack artistry, bad steps, bad spins, bad ..... everything!
I wonder how he does and stands on the ice?


P.S. I have the impression that you want to all the skaters look the same ... you do not think, that it would be boring?

P.S.S. It is interesting how this topic turned to the critics, the moment when he proved that he still "knows" to skate?

P.S.S. S. for all that this is annoying - my new signature

 

[seniorita]

I think she just said she doesnt comment to others' skaters personal threads if she doesnt like the skaters. Anyway, i for once, was glad to meet plushyta in person. Lovely girl and she helped me a lot with my non russian skills. My greek friends also were happy to meet you Plushyta, even if they are not Plushy fans, lol!
What happened to you Anty, you saw Evgeni's Lp and decided to quit the boards forever?I m worried about you the moment you see it, lol!Drink a beer first

 

[plushyta]

I have no problem with being critical if it's not just for the sake of being mean. I'm not here to do nothing but gush, and I don't think I should feel bad about it. If you don't read other topics, why do you want to be on GS? I'm not trying to get rid of you, but I'm genuinely curious why you would come to a general skating forum if you are interested in only one skater. Surely if you're a skating fan there are other subjects of interest? More skaters that you like?

I do not like to comment bad things, because I would have felt bad if wrote bad things - it's the difference between us ... but I like to be informed about other skaters - I just read another topics.
Why am I here? Perhaps because it was necessary make balance between those who love, and those who do not love Plushy

... Anyway, i for once, was glad to meet plushyta in person. Lovely girl and she helped me a lot with my non russian skills. My greek friends also were happy to meet you Plushyta, even if they are not Plushy fans, lol!

And I enjoyed with you and your friends
... and with bunch of girls from all over the world It was a very exciting experience for me (with my half-know knowledge of russian and english language :sheesh - to be a "official" translator between Russian, Japanese, Korean, Greek, French, American, Swedish, Hungarese, Italian girls.. did I missed some country? :scratch:

 

[jennylovskt]

Why am I here? Perhaps because it was necessary make balance between those who love, and those who do not love Plushy

Sure! Don't leave, Plushyta! This board was a Plushenko bashing heaven. It has just turned into a balanced discussing place in recent months.

As of repeating the ideas, subjects, praise, and critics, if you read them for a while, you will find that they are all repeating. That's a forum. If everyone restrain him/herself to not repeat anything that has been said by him/herself or others, there will be no more forums. People love to repeat and vent in the same way over and over.:yes:

 

[janetfan]

I forgot my most important observation of rostel.
The future of Russian men figure skating looks very promising. All-and when i say all I mean ALL-little flower boys have copy-paste the haircut of plushy
It was so obvious it cracked me up!

I enjoyed seeing "The Return of the King" and to see the "mini Plushenkos" must have been quite a site

I watched it last Sunday on NBC with my dear old mother who did alot of skating when she was growing up.

After watching the men's LP's she said, "there is still no one who compares to the Russian boy." His jumps and the way he commands the ice are in a class of their own."

Not every skater can have the best spins or the most imaginative choreo. It is a matter of presenting your strengths and doing the best you can on the other elements.

While we all may have our favorites it still comes down to who has the best abilty to compete when it matters most. Plushy proved once again, even after such a long layoff that he still excels at competing.

Evan has shown this very important quality - and it explains why he has won some important medals against skaters who might seem to be more talented than he is.

I think some of the anti-Plushy comments are premature at this point. He has been away from competitive skating for such a long time. To think that he won't work on his spins and tweak his choreo is to greatly underestimate him.

I hope Lambiel is doing well - and looking forward to Vancouver it is possible that we will see a great competition from the men.
That could give skating a big boost at a time when it could really use it.

 

[Noondarkly]

Plushyta, I LOVE your signature. Can I use it too, please? Please?

Janetfan, thank you for a very nice post. I am biased enough when it comes to Plush and I, therefore, will not agree with you about who the best one of them all is, because I may be totally wrong. All I know is that he has won more competitions than all the other skaters currently competing, that he is inventive and artistic (not all the time, but he generally is), and that he evokes a multitude of emotions in me no other skater can. For me, he is definitely the best. If I want to be nasty, I will say that numbers and medals kindof prove he IS the King of figure skating, but that is totally irrelevant, because back when Philippe Candeloro was my no. 1 favourite, there was no talk of medals, the best he ever achieved was a bronze at the Worlds. And yet, for me, he was the best. He was an entertainer, an artist on ice, someone who GAVE me so much. Evgeni is, perhaps, a lucky constellation of all things good and beautiful when it comes to figure skating. I would probably love him just as much if he didn't win as many medals. Just as I really love Johnny Weir, I love Yannick Ponsero, I love Stéphane Lambiel. They don't always win. But they offer so much.

Plush is a Scorpio and hence, a maximalist. Passionate, merciless about his achievements. He is not easily deterred from his goal. He does not settle for second best. That is why he can focus in competitions.

I remember him skating in Moscow in 2005. He had horrible pains and he had gotten some incredibly strong painkillers for his knee. He skated the short, fell once. He didn't even do badly. Afterwards, when he withdrew from the free, he stated he "had not felt his legs while skating the short". Yet he skated, he wanted to skate for his Russian friends, in Moscow. He literally skated half dead. I that is not commitment, nothing is. And I don't think he changed much since... he wants to prove a lot... he is experienced.

And Buttercup, I would really be happy if "the old Plushenko" returned. No better than the old, just what he used to be. If he did just that, the field of skaters could kiss their medals goodbye. I don't think he needs to change much. The way I see it, he was pretty much perfect when he left, so... am I biased, a tad?