Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20

[cosmos]

Well that is your opinion, I have mine. If you ask a question what is mature in my dictionary, what is not mature in yours? I mean, do I have to explain the meaning and feeling behind the basic words (I have not seen that it was required from other posters here explaining their opinions)? To me, her skating is more femminine and sophisticated than Mao's or, to lesser extent, Yuna's.

Joannie has a great presentation skill but I don't think femminine is a right word to describe her skaing. Just my opinion.

 

[623]

IWhat most concerns me about Yuna's chances at an OGM is the possibility of her developing mental hiccups about her 3F. I think we saw the beginnings of such a hiccup at TEB and SA. Her 3F, because it had been subject to edge calls previously, seemed to hang over her head like a stormy cloud, and it manifested in her 1) skipping it altogether in the TEB LP and 2) falling on it in the SA LP. Even worse, her preoccupation with it seemed to bleed over to her 3Lz at SA (most likely because the mechanics are so similar).

Well, Yuna skipped her 3 flip in France because there was something on the ice and she could fel it on her blade. It was a smart move to skip the jump.
How do you know that Yuna's preocupation with 3 flip affected her 3 lutz? Yuna herself said that she was shocked after making a mistake on her 3 lutz 3 toeloop combination and THAT was what affected her proceeding jumping elements. Had she landed her 3 lutz 3 toeloop, she might have landed her 3 flip with no problems.
As you said, she perfomed 3 flip in her both short programmes and they were great. So I think it's too early to jump to the conclusion after just two events and say that she developed some mental problems with her flip. We will see how she will fare at Grand Prix Final. If she makes a mistake on flip there, then I think we may start worrying.

At least we understand the system: if there is no DG on jumps,
all the elements are ok, all skaters can get more than 70 even if they don't do 3-3 combination.
But this case, I feel sorry for Yuna who tries 3Lz-3T which is super difficult, Mao who tries 3A-2T which is also difficult and risky.

Well, it's not like Yuna is not being rewarded for her 3lutz 3toeloop...
And the only time Mao landed 3 axel 2 toeloop in her short programme she got a pretty good score, too. About 5 point higher than Joannie here. You might argue that 5 points difference is too little, but you have to remember that Mao does not put 3 lutz in her short programme which as it turns out for some skaters might be as super difficult as 3 axel for the others.

I think people consider 70+ a WOW score, but many of them don't find Joannie's sp as WOW-ful as the YuNa's two SP's.

Yes, but also there are people who don not like Yuna's short programme and think that Joannie's is great. That' all matter of opinion.

 

[cosmos]

Yes, but also there are people who don not like Yuna's short programme and think that Joannie's is great. That' all matter of opinion.

Sure. I said 'many of them' not 'all of them'
Apparently far more people agreed that YuNa's sp's deserved 70+ score. I just tried to explain why people don't agree with Joannie's score. IMO, 70 is just another score.

 

[janetfan]

Ok, a quick question. Was Joannie's performance as good as:

better than Yuna or Mao....?

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Sports/Figure_Skating/ID=1337428457

Thanks so much for posting Joannies' SP.
For me it is the BEST SP I have seen this year.
Her jumps were simply immaculate from her entry to air position to the exceptionally FINE flow she completed them with.

I would also add that Joannie's skating has a sophistication and refinement that at times I feel is lacking from some of the other top ladies.

Just my opinion and I think her score was fine.

 

[Bennett]

What's going on with PCS in this event?

I have difficulty figuring out why Akiko and Mirai got such low PCS and Lepisto was relatively good. The greatest disparities are found in transition, choreo, and interpretation where Lepisto scored relatively high and Suzuki and Mirai scored relatively low.

Lepisto does also superb skating skills. Her SP also has such an understated beauty, which I truly love, but can typically be underscored.

I thought that Suzuki and Mirai both have a decent program with great choreo, interpretation (esp Suzuki), and transition. Mirai also skates extremely fast and beautifully. Suzuki's skating skills are not bad, either. I just cannot get it.

Do you think that the judges here are a bit different from the ones in the previous events?

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpcan09/SEG003.HTM
PCS= SS TR PE CH IN
1 Joannie ROCHETTE CAN 31.60 = 7.85 7.50 8.05 8.00 8.10
2 Alissa CZISNY USA 26.92= 7.15 6.05 7.05 6.55 6.85
3 Mirai NAGASU USA 24.04 = 6.35 5.50 6.25 6.05 5.90
4 Laura LEPISTÖ FIN 26.60 = 6.95 6.20 6.65 6.75 6.70
5 Cynthia PHANEUF CAN 24.48 = 6.45 5.40 6.40 6.05 6.30
6 Amelie LACOSTE CAN 22.40 = 5.95 5.15 5.85 5.50 5.55
7 Caroline ZHANG USA 23.00 = 6.20 5.20 5.85 5.80 5.70
8 Akiko SUZUKI JPN 23.20 = 6.40 5.00 6.05 5.90 5.65
9 Jenna MCCORKELL GBR 20.56 = 5.55 4.50 5.40 5.20 5.05
10 Sarah HECKEN GER 19.80 = 5.30 4.25 5.35 5.00 4.85
11 Joshi HELGESSON SWE 19.40 = 5.25 4.25 5.10 4.95 4.70

 

[silverlake22]

Ugh, people need to stop comparing scores with those from years ago! Especially those when Mao and Yu Na were 16 and still developing into the skaters they are today.
If you are going to compare scores, compare Joannie's score with Alissa, Mirai, and Laura. I think she deserved to be 6.5 points above Alissa because she is so much faster, her footwork is much better, and her jumps are much higher, bigger, and faster. Alissa 3lz-2t combo is always soo slow, she goes 3lz - PAUSE - 2t. Both girls were great, but Joannie's huge jumps are so much more exciting to watch, plus she is as artistic as Alissa, just in a different way. She's very athletic vs Alissa being artistic.
Mirai was awesome too, but as a 16 year old, her artistry is not quite as developed as the top two skaters, plus she got edge calls and negative GOEs for her jumps. Laura Lepisto messed up most of her jumps and got a 56 so why can't Joannie get a 70? The scores are inflated but I think she deserved to be 6 points ahead of Alissa and 14 ahead of Mirai with jump problems

 

[Bennett]

Ugh, people need to stop comparing scores with those from years ago! Especially those when Mao and Yu Na were 16 and still developing into the skaters they are today.
If you are going to compare scores, compare Joannie's score with Alissa, Mirai, and Laura. I think she deserved to be 6.5 points above Alissa because she is so much faster, her footwork is much better, and her jumps are much higher, bigger, and faster. Alissa 3lz-2t combo is always soo slow, she goes 3lz - PAUSE - 2t. Both girls were great, but Joannie's huge jumps are so much more exciting to watch, plus she is as artistic as Alissa, just in a different way. She's very athletic vs Alissa being artistic.
Mirai was awesome too, but as a 16 year old, her artistry is not quite as developed as the top two skaters, plus she got edge calls and negative GOEs for her jumps. Laura Lepisto messed up most of her jumps and got a 56 so why can't Joannie get a 70? The scores are inflated but I think she deserved to be 6 points ahead of Alissa and 14 ahead of Mirai with jump problems

Mirai didn't make any visible mistakes to bare eyes. She looked clean. The edge call should not affect her PCS.

I do not think that Joannie was the fastest, either, even though she does have great edges. Lepisto may have the both qualities.

 

[katakwan]

Well that is your opinion, I have mine. If you ask a question what is mature in my dictionary, what is not mature in yours? I mean, do I have to explain the meaning and feeling behind the basic words (I have not seen that it was required from other posters here explaining their opinions)? To me, her skating is more femminine and sophisticated than Mao's or, to lesser extent, Yuna's.

OH I am really sorry about my words.

You don't have to explain the meaning of word because I really see that there is another meaning of 'mature','femminine','sophisticated'.

Thank you very much.

 

[Kinga]

OH I am really sorry about my words.

You don't have to explain the meaning of word because I really see that there is another meaning of 'mature','femminine','sophisticated'.

Thank you very much.

I do not see how mature and sophisticated could be mutually exclusive. Her skating can be simply both. I DID not say that sophisticated and mature mean the same. And I do not understand why my post is so funny, and why do you have to be so ironic when we just discuss opinions, but well, nevermind.

 

[Charlotte Elizabeth]

Joannie has a great presentation skill but I don't think femminine is a right word to describe her skaing. Just my opinion.

Exactly, sophisticated, mature, but not feminine in my opinion. No way. This is partly why I don't enjoy Joannie skate that much. Her skating is just noe feminine. Extensions and stretching problems just add to all together athletic image. It's not bad, just not my cup of tea. I much prefer Alyssa's style on the ice with beautiful lay back and all the spins and spirals! Although of course I understand her weaknesses.

 

[prettykeys]

Well that is your opinion, I have mine. If you ask a question what is mature in my dictionary, what is not mature in yours? I mean, do I have to explain the meaning and feeling behind the basic words (I have not seen that it was required from other posters here explaining their opinions)? To me, her skating is more femminine and sophisticated than Mao's or, to lesser extent, Yuna's.

You are saying Joannie's skating is more like a woman, rather than a child or juvenile, correct? (hence "mature" and "feminine")

I also agree that Joannie was sophisticated. Her understated artistry and clean lines were not "chaotic" at all. She skated great, although I agree she wasn't "knock-me-out-of-my-seat". Yes, Tango is a combination of fire and ice. There was a bit too much ice in Joannie's performance, for me; she didn't get into the music as much as I would have liked. I think she was nervous as well. I hope when she gets more confident with the piece, she relaxes and pushes her performance a tad more.

I don't really care about dissecting scores on these Grand Prix's so much anymore. The GPF, Oly's, and World's scores are what matter the most, and inflation during the GP's for ANY skater is more likely to hurt than help.

I am sorry for Mirai.

 

[silverlake22]

Mirai didn't make any visible mistakes to bare eyes. She looked clean. The edge call should not affect her PCS.

I do not think that Joannie was the fastest, either, even though she does have great edges. Lepisto may have the both qualities.

Yeah, I thought Mirai's skate was pretty great too, but then when I heard what they called her out on, then watched her program again, I understood. Plus I feel like the judges are kinda resisting against the teenagers :scowl:. After so many years of teeny teens dominating the sport, I think skaters in their 20s who can still jump and perform are getting a lot of attention (Joannie, Alissa, Akiko, Laura and other European ladies). It's like the ISU doesn't WANT a teenager to be the best. I suppose Mao and Yu Na are still technically teenagers, but they will be 20 in less than a year and are starting to develop that mature polish to their skating. I guess I kinda understand the whole situation...it's so sad to see a skater rise to the top at 15-16 and then struggle for thereon after That's what happened to Kimmie and Emily and seems like it could happen to Caroline Zhang

 

[i love to skate]

Exactly, sophisticated, mature, but not feminine in my opinion. No way. This is partly why I don't enjoy Joannie skate that much. Her skating is just noe feminine. Extensions and stretching problems just add to all together athletic image. It's not bad, just not my cup of tea. I much prefer Alyssa's style on the ice with beautiful lay back and all the spins and spirals! Although of course I understand her weaknesses.

She has very good extensions:
http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/05skatecan/ROCHETTE20545948.jpg

http://academie.csla.nordtic.net/local/cache-vignettes/L300xH417/S020509AU_0j9c6e-4bedc.jpg

She also has an incredible extension on her jump landings. It is the best in the world:
http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w46/img.410333_t.jpg

Just because she doesn't twist her body into a pretzel or hold her leg in a vertical line doesn't mean she has extension problems!

 

[katakwan]

I do not see how mature and sophisticated could be mutually exclusive. Her skating can be simply both. I DID not say that sophisticated and mature mean the same. And I do not understand why my post is so funny, and why do you have to be so ironic when we just discuss opinions, but well, nevermind.

Did I say 'sophisticated' and 'mature' mean the same ?
I don't think so.

I did not say your post is so funny.
If you think so, that is your problem, I don't care.

AM I so ironic?
OH~~~ thanks your opinion.

 

[Phoenix347]

I finally had a chance to watch Rochette's SP on Universal Sport. She had a very clean and well executed program that probably deserved the score that she got. Having said that, I can't say it was my cup of tea. For me her arm movements seem choppy, curt and a bit forced. I found her transitions between elements not particularly cohesive or flowing. As for her artistry being "mature", I don't really know what that means so I won't comment on it. Perhaps it is just that I do not find her aesthetics to my taste. However, I must also say that I did not see the joy of skating in her skating that I've seen in some top skaters, i.e. Michelle Kwan. I will never forget seeing Michelle in almost tears after her performance from the pure joy of it. That kind of joy is missing from her skating... but very very few skaters have that. Nonetheless, it was an excellent performance that is deservedly first place.

 

[i love to skate]

However, I must also say that I did not see the joy of skating in her skating that I've seen in some top skaters, i.e. Michelle Kwan. I will never forget seeing Michelle in almost tears after her performance from the pure joy of it. That kind of joy is missing from her skating... but very very few skaters have that. Nonetheless, it was an excellent performance that is deservedly first place.

Are you supposed to look joyful in a tango? :scratch: Joannie is a very reserved and sometimes shy girl. Just because she has a different personality or appearance on the ice doesn't mean that she isn't full of joy. She loves to skate and she has a personality where she doesn't show much outward emotion.

 

[zartian]

Well that is your opinion, I have mine. If you ask a question what is mature in my dictionary, what is not mature in yours? I mean, do I have to explain the meaning and feeling behind the basic words (I have not seen that it was required from other posters here explaining their opinions)? To me, her skating is more femminine and sophisticated than Mao's or, to lesser extent, Yuna's.

:chorus::chorus::chorus:

Do you "really" see her more feminine than Mao or Yuna? If so, I am now witnessing a real cultural (or personal?) difference! On the internet of some Asian country (I wouldn't tell which), I found she was called as "brother" instead of "sister" in a cute way (no way in a derogatory term). In most of the Oriental eyes, she belongs to less feminine style (maybe because of her muscular body?) than, let say, Alissa, Mirai, Sasha, Caroline, Ashley, Mao, Yuna, Yukari. Miki seems more likely to belong to the category of Joannie, Carolina style. I am talking about general consensus: there are always exceptions.

All this does not mean that I don't like Joannie. To be honest, her style and artistry was just so-so to me until last season, although I liked her power. But I really started to like her after seeing her Tango this season! This seems to bring up more femininity from her and I think It's her best program (at least to me). I wish her all the best this season!

 

[Charlotte Elizabeth]

She has very good extensions:
http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/05skatecan/ROCHETTE20545948.jpg

http://academie.csla.nordtic.net/local/cache-vignettes/L300xH417/S020509AU_0j9c6e-4bedc.jpg

She also has an incredible extension on her jump landings. It is the best in the world:
http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w46/img.410333_t.jpg

Just because she doesn't twist her body into a pretzel or hold her leg in a vertical line doesn't mean she has extension problems!

Ok, agreed. Her extensions on your photos are good. But it's not what I kept in mind when I was posting. For me layback spin, Arabesque and Charlotte spirals positions are extreamely important. Many skaters can do V spiral pretty good but in the same time their Arabesque is quite poor. And I know about beautiful quolity of Joannie's edges and speed. It's just not the first thing I look for in spirals.

 

[i love to skate]

Do you "really" see her more feminine than Mao or Yuna? If so, I am now witnessing a real cultural (or personal?) difference! On the internet of some Asian country (I wouldn't tell which), I found she was called as "brother" instead of "sister" in a cute way (no way in a derogatory term). In most of the Oriental eyes, she belongs to less feminine style (maybe because of her muscular body?) than, let say, Alissa, Mirai, Sasha, Caroline, Ashley, Mao, Yuna, Yukari. Miki seems more likely to belong to the category of Joannie, Carolina style. I am talking about general consensus: there are always exceptions.

To say that she isn't feminine because of her muscular body is absolutely ridiculous. I know it was not supposed to come out this way, but the comment about her being seen more as a "brother" is completely derogatory and offensive, IMO.

In Canada she is definietly seen as feminine, strong, powerful and beautiful: I am glad we don't have such narrow views on what is "feminine"

http://www.thestar.com/sports/figureskating/article/728935--rochette-enhances-sultry-style

 

[demarinis5]

She has very good extensions:
http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/05skatecan/ROCHETTE20545948.jpg

http://academie.csla.nordtic.net/local/cache-vignettes/L300xH417/S020509AU_0j9c6e-4bedc.jpg

She also has an incredible extension on her jump landings. It is the best in the world:
http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w46/img.410333_t.jpg

Just because she doesn't twist her body into a pretzel or hold her leg in a vertical line doesn't mean she has extension problems!

I agree. ^Good examples. I have heard the same criticism of Michelle's extension in the past. Joannie's LP is my favorite of the ladies this season. It has everything that an Olympic program should have and her SP is just frosting on the cake. Joannie has a very legitimate shot at Gold at Vancouver. She is getting very good scores and excellent PC's. JMO