Decline in ladies FS in Europe

[gio]

I want to give an emergency call to all European Federations: wake up!!! The level of ladies FS was never this low in Europe. I don't know how much lower we can get, but it is really depressing. Something has to be done

France won't send any skater to Olympics and even Euros. Come on, this was the country that had Bonaly, Hubert, Leray and Gusmeroli battling for spots and top 10 at Worlds just 10 years ago
Germany the country of Katarina the great, Annett Potzsch, Marina Kiellmann, Tanja Szewczenko has now such a weak field. Hopefully the situation is a little bit better than France, because there is Sarah Hecken.
Hungary, long time ago this country was able to win medals, but we don't need to go this far to see fairly good skaters such as Sebestyen, Czako, Poth, Dorofejev. After Sebestyen retires there will be nothing.
Italy, after Kostner and Marchei there aren't any other skaters able to complete at least 3 different triples.
Switzerland this was the country of the spinning girls Biellmann, Krieg, Ruh. A part from Biellmann it was never a winning country but at least it's girls stayed in the top 24 at Worlds. After Meier there will be a void.
Finland has now Poykio, Korpi and Lepisto, but they aren't that young. What will be after them, now that the promising Vahaama gave away skating?
Austria, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Czech Republic and Slovakia, Ukraine all countries with Olympic and World medalists in the past don't even have skaters able to be in the top 24 at Worlds.
Poland ten years ago had Rechnio and Wojtala.

Only in Russia the situation is improving with new promising skaters coming out.

It's a pity, because it will be great to watch a highly battled competition at Worlds and Olympics.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

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France won't send any skater to Olympics and even Euros. Come on, this was the country that had Bonaly, Hubert, Leray and Gusmeroli battling for spots and top 10 at Worlds just 10 years ago

The thing is that situation is the exception in France, not the rule. ladies has rarely been a competiton in which France ecells in.

 

[gio]

The thing is that situation is the exception in France, not the rule. ladies has rarely been a competiton in which France ecells in.

Well that's true! There were just Jacqueline du Bief (silver W '51, gold W '52) and Nicole Hassler (top10 in the 60s, in '63 even won a bronze).
But at least once there were skaters who were sent to Euros. Now you don't even send skaters.

 

[Bennett]

Do you know why it's declining? Isn't FS from Europe? They also tend to have a cold climate. Wonderful for winter sports. There would be many wealthy families and relatively inexpensive schooling, leaving enough money to skate, no? Classical music and ballet are still very strong in Europe despite the rise of the US. FS seems to be along the line as far as the taste goes. Are there not enough rinks (well, Japan is famous for the shortage of rinks but still very strong though)? Or not enough coaches? What are the problems?

 

[gio]

Do you know why it's declining? Isn't FS from Europe? They also tend to have a cold climate. Wonderful for winter sports. There would be many wealthy families and relatively inexpensive schooling, leaving enough money to skate, no? Classical music and ballet are still very strong in Europe despite the rise of the US. FS seems to be along the line as far as the taste goes. Are there not enough rinks (well, Japan is famous for the shortage of rinks but still very strong though)? Or not enough coaches? What are the problems?

Yes FS comes from Europe. The first Champions were Europeans, Salchow from Sweden, Syers-Cave from Great Britain and Kronberg from Hungary. Then the sport spread to North America and after to Asia. In Europe there are many wealthy families (but even if you are not wealthy you can afford to FS if you live near a rink) and the cold winter climate is certainly favorable. There are many elements in favour of FS.
But IMO what is lacking is interest in this sport. Soccer, volleyball, basket, ballet, gymnastics, athletics are the first choices in Europe for kids certainly not FS. If you add the fact that there aren't many rinks, even children who will want to cannot train in skating. If there was more interest more rinks will be built and be open all the year and not just in winter for recreational skating.
I think ISU is not doing much to promote the sport. More rinks should be built and more coaches should be available. If you want to coach you go to the USA. Mojca Kopac is coaching (or at least she was in Summer 2006) in the USA, Silvia Fontana too. IIRC also Anna Rechnio. Why aren't those former skaters coaching in Europe instead? Maybe because they cannot, there are no FS programs.
We had a Serbian skater on this forum. She told as about all the difficulties to train. No rinks open in the Summer in the whole country, too little coaching hours. So it is clear why Serbian skaters cannot master almost any triple even if they would really like to and put all their effort.
Tugba Karademir certainly didn't learn all those spins and jumps in Turkey, but in Canada.
It's incredible that Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Austria with all their snow and ice cannot develop a champion. They excel in skiing and hockey, because the majority of kids favour those sports rather than skating.

I think the major problems are lack of interest and consequently lack of facilities and programs.

That's a pity, considering how many potential talents and stars we lost. Imagine how cool it will be to watch an Olympics with all the skaters able to complete all the triples, difficult spins, spirals and steps and excelling in choreography. That would be possible if FS were more popular

 

[skatingpunk]

I can't help but wonder Gio if this thread and your other thread about COP/Technique have anything to do with each other... just a thought...

 

[gio]

I can't help but wonder Gio if this thread and your other thread about COP/Technique have anything to do with each other... just a thought...

Do you think that maybe COP with the major emphasis it gives to technique it could have favoured Asian skaters or skaters of Asian descent? As you have said Asians are more prone to repeat the exercices untill they do it correctly and with proper technique.

Maybe in Europe there is also a major lack of expertise?

 

[skatingpunk]

Do you think that maybe COP with the major emphasis it gives to technique it could have favoured Asian skaters or skaters of Asian descent? As you have said Asians are more prone to repeat the exercices untill they do it correctly and with proper technique.

Maybe in Europe there is also a major lack of expertise?

Asian learning cultures emphasize practice, repetition, form and perfection. But any girl willing to submit herself to years of grueling technical practice can master COP, not just Asian girls.

In Japan, figure skaters are treated like rock stars. There's some financial incentive there. In America and Europe, figure skating appears to be a dying sport, with sponsors and television time being lost. Why would any girl want to be part of a dying sport?

 

[Olympia]

Asian learning cultures emphasize practice, repetition, form and perfection. But any girl willing to submit herself to years of grueling technical practice can master COP, not just Asian girls.

In Japan, figure skaters are treated like rock stars. There's some financial incentive there. In America and Europe, figure skating appears to be a dying sport, with sponsors and television time being lost. Why would any girl want to be part of a dying sport?

This has bothered me, too. It's especially distressing because there is a governing body, the ISU, that could put forward more effort to make skating attractive to both participants and audience.

Here's an interesting thought: one art/sport that was totally off the radar was ballroom dancing. Now it's a popular spectator sport in the U.S. Why? Because of [Dancing with the Stars./I] (I think there are variants in other countries, with similar effects on the popularity of ballroom dancing there. Dancers like Derek Hough, Maksim Chmerkovsky, and Edyta Slewinska are objects of affection to fans all over. Gee, TV as a method of publicizing and glamorizing an athletic pursuit. How did anyone come up with an idea like that!

Yes, I know there was a "skating with the stars" show, and it was kind of a drag. Understandably, you can't get a total amateur up to speed on skates the way you can in dancing shoes. But the basic concept of having maybe just the pros compete in some way, while America (or Europe) gets to know and like them, would be one way to use TV to glamorize skating.

 

[TtonyV7]

Europe Decline in Ladies Figure Skating is very sad indeed.

France is the biggest disappointment. Huge rivals to Russia in the 90's, and really brought innovation to skating, pioneered by Bonaly and Gusmeroli.

Remember this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_oBT_2NZ3U

One of the most innovative, competitive Ladies SP to this day. What a shame they hadvn't been able to continue this tradition both on the Ladies & Pairs side.

Germany was a powerhouse as well, though not always the most consistent, they always brought something interesting to the table to every competition. I see no strong contender in Hungary after Sebeysten, and Ukraine has literally fallen to the ranks of "Belarus, Latvia, Post-Soviet Nations..."

Though the Finnish ladies are getting older, BRAVO to the Finnish federation for practically saving Europeans to becoming an utter joke the last 4 years. To have 3-4 top caliber skaters, who all have beautiful presence on ice is to be commended for a nation that does not have a strong skating tradition.

Italian Ladies Figure Skating has come a long way thanks to Fontana and Koster. I'm sure a new star will come from this nation soon.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

Do you know why it's declining? Isn't FS from Europe? They also tend to have a cold climate. Wonderful for winter sports.

The problem is global warming!!!!!!:chorus:

 

[Germanice]

I'd say all in all we prefer our guys, at least during the past decade ...

 

[janetfan]

Europe Decline in Ladies Figure Skating is very sad indeed.


Though the Finnish ladies are getting older, BRAVO to the Finnish federation for practically saving Europeans to becoming an utter joke the last 4 years. To have 3-4 top caliber skaters, who all have beautiful presence on ice is to be commended for a nation that does not have a strong skating tradition.

.

I think skating like any other sport has it's cycles.

I happen to be a big fan of Laura Lepisto and if she is able to manage two clean programs in Vancouver she is capable of placing in the top 5.
Aside from her inconsistent jumps Laura has some wonderful qualities lacking in many of the N.American and Asian skaters.

Caro is another Euro Lady who could do well but it seems less likely as she has struggled all season and may not even make it to Vancouver. But Caro certainly has the talent to compete with the world's best skaters.

I don't know much about the next generation of Euro ladies. I have seen several of the younger Russian girls and they look like they have potential to develope into world class skaters.

Never forget ISU has unusual ways and has never been shy about rewarding Euro skaters. Thinking of all of the dues paying ISU members from Europe it is hard to imagine some very good Lady skaters will not emerge soon.

 

[Mathman]

Here's an interesting thought: one art/sport that was totally off the radar was ballroom dancing. Now it's a popular spectator sport in the U.S. Why? Because of [Dancing with the Stars./I] (I think there are variants in other countries, with similar effects on the popularity of ballroom dancing there. Dancers like Derek Hough, Maksim Chmerkovsky, and Edyta Slewinska are objects of affection to fans all over. Gee, TV as a method of publicizing and glamorizing an athletic pursuit. How did anyone come up with an idea like that!

The Battle of the Blades show in Canada was a huge television ratings success and has been renewed for a second season. This featured famous retired hockey stars paired up with figure skaters. It was successful in large part because the hockey players could already skate really well, so it was just a question of learning some pairs skating moves. Jamie Sale and Craig Simpson won. The hockey players took the competition seriously and got into the dancing/artistry part of the sport with gusto.

Unfortunately, no other country except maybe Russia reveres hockey players, so it might not work in other places. Russia has its own Skating with the Stars shows (two of them in fact), which are also successful, I believe.

 

[gio]

The Battle of the Blades show in Canada was a huge television ratings success and has been renewed for a second season. This featured famous retired hockey stars paired up with figure skaters. It was successful in large part because the hockey players could already skate really well, so it was just a question of learning some pairs skating moves. Jamie Sale and Craig Simpson won. The hockey players took the competition seriously and got into the dancing/artistry part of the sport with gusto.

Unfortunately, no other country except maybe Russia reveres hockey players, so it might not work in other places. Russia has its own Skating with the Stars shows (two of them in fact), which are also successful, I believe.

The Battle of the Blades is a great idea, because boys that are uncertain if to pick skating as a sport, are more stimulated to do it. This is because it becomes acceptable for boys to take figure skating lessons if their manly hockey idols learned to FS.
Netherlands and Norway could try this tactic too, since hockey is popular there. But that will work for boys not girls.
Russia has many hockey fans, but I don't think in this country exists the stigma about FS as a feminine sport.

What IMO could work to stimulate young girls to take FS lessons is a national figure skating star. But what could you do if your country hasn't one? You copy the tactict that Finland implemented 15 years ago. You take a skater from a country where there is a surplus of good skaters and naturalise her. Then you sponsor her trough the media and make her a national star. I'm sure little girls from the country will want to be like her and pick skating and put more effort in doing so.
It worked for Finland. They took Alisa Drei (a Russian), she was fairly good, not exactly a star, but she stayed in the top 24 at Worlds. After her came Kettunnen, Poykio, Korpi, Lepisto, Vahaama. Now Finland is in better shape than 15 years ago. I'm sure that Drei was a factor.

Some Japanese and USA girls that don't have any chance in their respective country could almost certainly be at Worlds representing another country (Bulgaria, Czech Republic or Romania). If they stay in the top 24 at World and with the help of local media I'm sure that will help to stimulate local girls to pick FS.

Sometimes small achievements can mean a lot. Look at Tugba, she is a heroine in her country, and look at how many junior Turkish girls are now competing after her achievements (top 24 at Worlds is already a big achievement for a country without skating culture). I think that with proper financial help Turkish talents could be sent to Canada or USA and become real stars. I think there is a Yu Na Kim in Turkey, we have just to find her and let her train with great coaches. :agree:

 

[life684]

I agree with you that, european ladies have certainly dipped in competiton level against rest of the world. But, on closer examination of other traditional skating super powers, we find that they are not fairing much better.

USA for instance, have not medaled for last three world championships. Last time this happened was after sabena air disaster ( but one would expect that after complete team was killed in air disaster), and so if we go further back before that, it was prior to world war two that we see USA having no medals for more than 3 consecutive worlds. And now US just have two olympic spot at this olympics.

Canada seems to have faired better thanks to Rochette, once she retires there is no one from that country who can take up the mantle.

I think this dip in performance is more due to exceptional standards set by Japanese and Yuna, coupled with very stringent rules by ISU that we see this kind of dip in performance by europeans. Further more during last decade and a half, it was just Russian ladies and Carolina who was able keep up with rest of the world. after Slutskaya and Co. retired, along with caro bad form that is making it over more visible.

 

[gio]

I agree with you that, european ladies have certainly dipped in competiton level against rest of the world. But, on closer examination of other traditional skating super powers, we find that they are not fairing much better.

USA for instance, have not medaled for last three world championships. Last time this happened was after sabena air disaster ( but one would expect that after complete team was killed in air disaster), and so if we go further back before that, it was prior to world war two that we see USA having no medals for more than 3 consecutive worlds. And now US just have two olympic spot at this olympics.

I agree, but at least there are some promising stars such as Nagasu, Zhang, Wagner and other youngsters. I agree though that not medalling for the Usa is a big disappointment considering it is a skating superpower.

I think this dip in performance is more due to exceptional standards set by Japanese and Yuna, coupled with very stringent rules by ISU that we see this kind of dip in performance by europeans. Further more during last decade and a half, it was just Russian ladies and Carolina who was able keep up with rest of the world. after Slutskaya and Co. retired, along with caro bad form that is making it over more visible.

Yes it's true, but once there were more skaters able to complete almost all triple jumps especially lutzes and flips. Liashenko and Maniachenko (Ukraine), Malinina (Uzbekistan), Rechnio and Wojtala (Poland), Drei (Finland), Lautowa (Austria), Fontana (Italy), Poth and Sebestyen (Hungary), Gusmeroli, Hubert and Bonaly (France), Kopac (Slovenia), Hegel (Croatia) and I'm sure others too. Poth, Wojtala, Drei and Bonaly did even constantly land triple/triple combos. And they were all competing in the same period with Bonaly a little bit earlier.

Now the majority of Euro skaters have just three different triples in their programs which are for the majority of the time toe loops and salchows and generally no 3/3 not even 3toe/3toe.

 

[oleada]

I think it's one of those things that comes and goes. Russia has some really good young talents, as does France, Sweden & Germany.

 

[schiele]

Sometimes small achievements can mean a lot. Look at Tugba, she is a heroine in her country, and look at how many junior Turkish girls are now competing after her achievements (top 24 at Worlds is already a big achievement for a country without skating culture). I think that with proper financial help Turkish talents could be sent to Canada or USA and become real stars. I think there is a Yu Na Kim in Turkey, we have just to find her and let her train with great coaches. :agree:

Wow, I have never seen such promotion for my country by a European..
Yes, Tugba has achieved a lot given the absolute lack of coaches and rinks in Turkey but it's all down to personal sacrifice. Unless there are talented people with strong will to risk everyting to get what they want, I see it unlikely that most European countries can bring forward stars. Despite Tugba's success, FS is a complete obscurity in Turkey and she cannot get a single sponsor even when she's going to the olympics. Some cultural habits are very difficult to change. But agreeably a star is probably the only way in a country with no/limited FS culture to get some interest in the sport and ensure future success and skaters..

 

[n_halifax]

Wow, I have never seen such promotion for my country by a European..
Yes, Tugba has achieved a lot given the absolute lack of coaches and rinks in Turkey but it's all down to personal sacrifice. Unless there are talented people with strong will to risk everyting to get what they want, I see it unlikely that most European countries can bring forward stars. Despite Tugba's success, FS is a complete obscurity in Turkey and she cannot get a single sponsor even when she's going to the olympics. Some cultural habits are very difficult to change. But agreeably a star is probably the only way in a country with no/limited FS culture to get some interest in the sport and ensure future success and skaters..

I do agree having a star in a country where there is no/limited figure skating culture is a great way to drum up interest in the sport but sometimes that is not always enough... the right training conditions and a federation who really wants to support and give exposure to athletes with the talent counts for something big too, as does good coaching and training facilities. Denis Ten may have made it out of Kazahkstan, Elene Gedevanishvili out of Georgia (as two examples) but they are in the minority and I think in many of these countries the training conditions and coaches available for homegrown skaters who don't wish to/can't afford to travel abroad to improve their coaching is a challenge in itself.