she never used those words, she used "SELFISH"
Senior OD
- Thread starter colleen o'neill
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she never used those words, she used "SELFISH"
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
You're correct. I elected to use context to elucidate a meaning. Given that she was talking about mentors and being examples, that's how I felt she meant it. You clearly disagree.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
I agree that it may be a misuse of words, English isn't Marina's first language after all... and shoot most of us who do have it as a first language can't speak it!
I wish they win overall as well. 
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2006
Woman? Limp rag ? Harsh, indeed. Begins to sound like the old "Only we understand real passion.." refrain. Talk about meh..
I've always liked tanith & Ben, just think their choice was poor. They have improved , but so have both teams they moved away from. i think they could have improved where they were..( and I would have enjoyed their programs more...
poor me. )
I've always liked tanith & Ben, just think their choice was poor. They have improved , but so have both teams they moved away from. i think they could have improved where they were..( and I would have enjoyed their programs more... poor me. )
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yes that was indeed harsh i apologize it's just when i watch old tapes of B/A i get quite furious (not them, the judges) who overmark them over better couples and yes i still stand by my opinion that belbin was quite a limp rag back then, not now, she is a WOMAN ice dancer now, vastly improved skating and edges, and definitely deserved their silver from Worlds last year.........
Talking about who's going to be dumped in Vancouver or Turin, sadly, it will be Virtue/Moir.
Talking about who's going to be dumped in Vancouver or Turin, sadly, it will be Virtue/Moir.
I'm not sure what people (not you IP) expect B&A to have done. Shpilband & Zoueva had a full house and they are known for choosing favorites. In all honestly even B&A may have benefitted at one point from being the favored top team because of all the on and off ice issues L&T had. The same thing happened to Stiegler/Magerovski. Igor had been chomping at the bit to train Tiffany Stiegler but as soon as Jamie Silverstein returned S&M were pushed to the back of the line.
Professonally the move to Linichuk was needed and the smart thing to do. If either V&M or D&W had been in the same position they would have done the same. If you are a top team and want to stay there why stay with coaches who openly tell the press that your training mates are better? If D&W win the gold (I hope not; they are medal contenders but despite what the judges marks are they aren't gold material yet IMHO) let's see what V&M do since Tessa and Scott (well Scott) have been vocal about wanting the gold and feeling they are the best team in the world.
Also piano isn't the only one who has commented on Tanith's need for improvement in her skating skills. Just browse through any message board for the past few years and the comments are numerous and sometimes beyond harsh. It's a shame that B&A have worked hard and done as they were told only to be pushed aside in favor of a team who has some of the same issues B&A used to. And that team is being applauded and rewarded for the qualities that Tanith has been criticized for and told to change.
From what I read on the ISU board (I hope this isn't a bad case of board dragging), USFS wanted B&A to train with Linichuk and I read in the past that Linichuk had wanted B&A to train under her and Karponosov a few years before B&A actually made the move. From what I read at the time B&A didn't immediately leave the Shpilband camp because of their loyalty to Igor. I can see where that got them and now both Igor and Marina at times have come across as bitter over B&A leaving them. This isn't the first time one of them has made deragatory statements about Tanith and Ben in the press. I think D&W's success is due to their own talent and hard work but also to Igor trying to stick it to B&A and it's working. He must be beside himself.
I read a Johnny Weir interview pre-nationals and he made a comment about not liking CoP becase he feels as if all of a sudden everything that once was right is now wrong. Not an exact quote but I wonder if Tanith and Ben are feeling the same way. They may not win another title Saturday night but I am glad they showed up to compete (some felt they wouldn't) and are at least on ice putting up a good fight.
I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for NavBoms to pull up in the FD.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2006
sorry ,piano18, not biting........
Talking about who's going to be dumped in Vancouver or Turin, sadly, it will be Virtue/Moir.
To be honest, V&M being pushed aside bothers me more than B&A. Despite Scott coming across as cocky at times, he isn't off base in having so much confidence in his and Tessa's skating abilities. I watch what is done on the ice then see the judges place D&W above them in practically all of the components scores? TES I get but PCS? Wow.
M
mylastduchess
Guest
Talking about who's going to be dumped in Vancouver or Turin, sadly, it will be Virtue/Moir.
What makes you say that? V/M still has the highest scoring Free Skate this season, and the Olympics bieng in Canada I could not imagine them finishing off the podium
Haven't posted here quite a while
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJFzxwCVoGs Tanith and Ben's original program
Really wanted to see Tanith & Ben take the lead in the od.
hwell: They too have a lot of detail & expression in their dance, beautiful edging, but better line than D/W. Ben's reaction after Tanith kicks him in the behind is great - I just love their playfulness here.
Still wondering how D/W get positive GOE marks from the judges for their twizzle section. Just out of sync on that second portion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJFzxwCVoGs Tanith and Ben's original program
Really wanted to see Tanith & Ben take the lead in the od.
hwell: They too have a lot of detail & expression in their dance, beautiful edging, but better line than D/W. Ben's reaction after Tanith kicks him in the behind is great - I just love their playfulness here. Still wondering how D/W get positive GOE marks from the judges for their twizzle section. Just out of sync on that second portion.
And I am not even a fan.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Here are the protocols. P&O received a deduction for extended lift (which is by far the most frequent deduction these days)
http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/64740/results.html
For those interested in ferreting out this stuff, Tanith and Ben did get better PCS than Meryl and Charlie in the component that actually contains the extension/toe point part, Performance. The component also contains plus points for projecting the dance to the watchers (which D&W are very good at, and that somewhat offsets the extension, carriage stuff)
And here's the link to the summary
http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2010/64740/results.html
D&W made the biggest gain over B&A in Choreography, second biggest gain in Interpretation.
Meryl and Charlie just edged Tanith and Ben in skating skills (speed, edging, etc) and in linking elements/footwork
On the 4 elements:
D&W gained 0.4 over B&A on the lift (I agree with this strongly)
lost 0.5 to B&A on the twizzle (B&A's were better but not wonderful)
gained over 0.5 on the straight line step
tied on the circular step (and indeed, IMO, the closing circular step was the best part of B&A's program)
I'm going to weigh in because I haven't watched ice dance in a long time and this is the first time that I've actually liked B&A. She has improved greatly under Linichuk's guidance- having active feet and looking more animated. That said, I don't agree with an earlier assertion that D&W are doing the same things as B&A and getting rewarded for it. They are a very different couple in that they are meticulous and detail oriented. It definitely comes through in their skating and programs. I am by no means a D&W fan but B&A were pretty sloppy under Shpilband's guidance whereas my initial impression of D&W was that they made a lot of effort to do everything right and with proper form.
That's just my 2 cents. And for all the b!tching about the DomShab's "offensive" aborigine program, I'm surprised people aren't getting on Brent Bommentre's Jar Jar Binks dreadlock costume. Now that was tacky.
That's just my 2 cents. And for all the b!tching about the DomShab's "offensive" aborigine program, I'm surprised people aren't getting on Brent Bommentre's Jar Jar Binks dreadlock costume. Now that was tacky.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
1. It's interesting how people view this. In a previous discussion, jcoates mentioned that he felt because D/W trained with V/M and B/A, that their skills were generally underrated from the get-go.
2. Positive marks on D/W's twizzles is disappointing, but definitely a national thing.
3. Interesting that D/W weren't able to get the levels on the steps. Zoueva mentioned they focused a lot on the compulsories post-GPF, so that probably brought them back a little. Their PCS are huge despite that (again, the complex choreography and connection to the audience they have really works).
4. Dyan, I understand why they made the move, and I think most people do as well. My vacuum comment has more to do with the fact that while it helped them improve their basic skating skills (they had their best result at Worlds since the Olympics under Linichuk), it didn't work out as well as they'd hoped. V/M and D/W, who had been outpointing them on TES as soon as they became seniors saw their PCS catch up these past couple seasons. Concurrently, DomShabs were forced (for all intents and purposes) to go to Linichuk at the same time, and given that these two were N/K's heir apparents in Russia, B/A still got overshadowed. While their work ethic and improvements are commendable, the fact that they WD from two GPFs and a Nationals within just over a year has haunted them as D/W were winning with commanding scores. Did D/W benefit from WDs? Absolutely.
5. It ain't over til it's over. B/A are showing vigour and fight. While I think their OGM hopes are all but gone if they don't win Nationals, I wouldn't corronate anyone just yet.
2. Positive marks on D/W's twizzles is disappointing, but definitely a national thing.
3. Interesting that D/W weren't able to get the levels on the steps. Zoueva mentioned they focused a lot on the compulsories post-GPF, so that probably brought them back a little. Their PCS are huge despite that (again, the complex choreography and connection to the audience they have really works).
4. Dyan, I understand why they made the move, and I think most people do as well. My vacuum comment has more to do with the fact that while it helped them improve their basic skating skills (they had their best result at Worlds since the Olympics under Linichuk), it didn't work out as well as they'd hoped. V/M and D/W, who had been outpointing them on TES as soon as they became seniors saw their PCS catch up these past couple seasons. Concurrently, DomShabs were forced (for all intents and purposes) to go to Linichuk at the same time, and given that these two were N/K's heir apparents in Russia, B/A still got overshadowed. While their work ethic and improvements are commendable, the fact that they WD from two GPFs and a Nationals within just over a year has haunted them as D/W were winning with commanding scores. Did D/W benefit from WDs? Absolutely.
5. It ain't over til it's over. B/A are showing vigour and fight. While I think their OGM hopes are all but gone if they don't win Nationals, I wouldn't corronate anyone just yet.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
Okay. First of all, I hate this OD theme. Period. Too many people get away with not doing true folk dance, it's ridiculous.
I don't DomShab's OD. I don't blame the aborigine people for being upset if it's not like their dance at all. But I agree with you, soogar. I LOVE Kim and Brent, but when Afro-Brazil and Afro-Cuba are countries, call me. This is the part of this theme that baffles me. It is a COUNTRY-FOLK OD, not country blend. I KNOW that Brazilian and Cuban folk dances have African inspiration within them, but that doesn't make their folk dances a two-country blend. Either pick African, or Brazilian, or Cuban. What's so hard about that? I appreciate trying to be different, but Kim and Brent did African the last go around, and this OD seems similar to that last one. Just say it's African and get it over with. The same goes for Madison and Greg: it seems more Cuban than African (to Kodo Japanese drums in the beginning; I'm not going to even get into that...); get it over with and say it's Cuban folk. Geez.
Again. Nothing against these teams, I just hate this OD theme. The end.
Go Meryl Go Charlie!
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- Mar 14, 2006
I'm a very casual ice dance watcher so excuse me if I'm being obvious (or rude): does anyone else think B/A have bad programs? That OD makes me cringe. The first words that came to mind were "so yesterday" - when all the other teams seemed so much more hip. Even the subsequent team whose dance was similar to B/A's - Pratt and Obzowsky? - was adorable. I don't think I've ever liked one of their programs. They all seem trite!
Sorry for the rant - what would top the B/A greatest hits list? I'll go watch and really try to like it!
Sorry for the rant - what would top the B/A greatest hits list? I'll go watch and really try to like it!
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
Well, I think I already left my 2 cents worth of though on NavBoms OD on FSU, and I really don't think it's worth dragging the issue (just like DomShabs): it's bad and it's horribly inaccurate. Move on. But people decided to dig further. It's not worth it.
Of course there is the whole social thing of how those people (aboriginal and africans eg) were (wrongly) treated in the past and how that still echoes on those communities these days. But also think it's ice dancing, making a whole fuss about it it's not going to solve problems or bring awarness to the causes IMO.
The press is simply feasting on such an easy story and "perpetrators" that almost nobody likes, but the story will die out after the olys and what real improvement to the undestanding of such a cause will remain. I say close to none.
And on NavBoms dance: Afro-Brazilian is such a wide term. Sure, there are plenty of folk dances in Brazil that have african origins, but Brazil is such a mix of people, that I can hardly think of one that is afro-brazilian per-se. Perhaps more to the northeast of the country. They said they did their research, but it sure looks like a poor one. His costume is specially dreadful, and I'm pretty sure no dance in Brazil has costumes that come close to resemble that (may be some extreme carnival costumes...). Not to mention that the name of the group that perfoms the song is spelled wrong on their ISU bio (may be they went for phonetics, but it's still wrong).
Of course there is the whole social thing of how those people (aboriginal and africans eg) were (wrongly) treated in the past and how that still echoes on those communities these days. But also think it's ice dancing, making a whole fuss about it it's not going to solve problems or bring awarness to the causes IMO.
The press is simply feasting on such an easy story and "perpetrators" that almost nobody likes, but the story will die out after the olys and what real improvement to the undestanding of such a cause will remain. I say close to none.
And on NavBoms dance: Afro-Brazilian is such a wide term. Sure, there are plenty of folk dances in Brazil that have african origins, but Brazil is such a mix of people, that I can hardly think of one that is afro-brazilian per-se. Perhaps more to the northeast of the country. They said they did their research, but it sure looks like a poor one. His costume is specially dreadful, and I'm pretty sure no dance in Brazil has costumes that come close to resemble that (may be some extreme carnival costumes...). Not to mention that the name of the group that perfoms the song is spelled wrong on their ISU bio (may be they went for phonetics, but it's still wrong).
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