Now I do think that it should be worth more, but I don't think male skating should be so obessesed with it.
Chan, Stojko & other Canadians discuss the men's event
- Thread starter LisaS
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Now I do think that it should be worth more, but I don't think male skating should be so obessesed with it.
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Chan sucks!
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- Jun 3, 2009
My biggest issues when discussing the quad is it's often confused for a penis in terms of how vital it is for men's figure skating.
Interesting comments from everyone.
1) 1 quad does not a champion make. In this new system, there are many ways to earn points. GOEs play a BIG role with as many as 8-10 points extra per program. It pays to pay attention to details. Aim for the bullet points in the GOE listing. Don't dismiss it.
2) Bad planning on their part. I was SURE he would throw 2 quads in the program. He did ONE. Had he done 2 he would have indeed taken hom the gold and the quad would be the reason why. This jump can make a winner but you need more than one.
3) The point value for a quad is ONLY 1.6 points greater than a 3A. That is not very much difference considering those pesky GOE's and level values. Pay attention to the system and learn math.
4) Elvis' comments were disappointing. I read somewhere where he commented that he knew how many hours and how much training it took to be able to have a consistent quad since he had one. He failed to mention that he knew how many hours go into making a good spin combination and a truly difficult(not flashy) footwork sequence........ oh wait, that's because he never put the effort into those elements so of course he doesn't know. I think he would be surprised. I don't even think his back sit spin would count today!
5) Scoring systems are what they are. In the past with the 6.0 system it was a bit of a mystery as far as how important certain elements were relative to others. At least now there is a list of points where one can see and compare what one can get, base, for certain elements. There were always suspect results for the 6.0 system, and there will be the same for this system. In addition this current system has been evolving and changing through the last 8 years. What was good 3 years ago may not make it now.
6) Let's also look at the history of skating since about 1988 onward. It seems like skating is going backward right now and maybe it is. But like any system that is "restarting", things need to get sorted out and new generations need to come forward. We will be seeing those generations soon. Look at kids like the novice men's champ nathan chen. 10 years old and 3 triples I think in his long program as well as the spins and great footwork sequences. This is the type of skater that grew up with this new system. quads were done while school figures were in place because they fostered body control and discipline. When they went away, the next set of skaters grew in the shadow of that discipline but didnt have that extra pressure and had more time to devote to the jumps. quad fever. Now with this new system, all the spinning and footwork reqiurements (if you want to be a contender) are like adding figures back. So there needs to be an adjustment made and it will happen over time, I'm sure of that.
Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug. Plushenko benefitted from the same things he criticizes. He simply wanted to win and didnt like the results. Boo hoo. Be a good sportsman and leave off criticizing someone who hasn't done anything wrong but win.
1) 1 quad does not a champion make. In this new system, there are many ways to earn points. GOEs play a BIG role with as many as 8-10 points extra per program. It pays to pay attention to details. Aim for the bullet points in the GOE listing. Don't dismiss it.
2) Bad planning on their part. I was SURE he would throw 2 quads in the program. He did ONE. Had he done 2 he would have indeed taken hom the gold and the quad would be the reason why. This jump can make a winner but you need more than one.
3) The point value for a quad is ONLY 1.6 points greater than a 3A. That is not very much difference considering those pesky GOE's and level values. Pay attention to the system and learn math.
4) Elvis' comments were disappointing. I read somewhere where he commented that he knew how many hours and how much training it took to be able to have a consistent quad since he had one. He failed to mention that he knew how many hours go into making a good spin combination and a truly difficult(not flashy) footwork sequence........ oh wait, that's because he never put the effort into those elements so of course he doesn't know. I think he would be surprised. I don't even think his back sit spin would count today!
5) Scoring systems are what they are. In the past with the 6.0 system it was a bit of a mystery as far as how important certain elements were relative to others. At least now there is a list of points where one can see and compare what one can get, base, for certain elements. There were always suspect results for the 6.0 system, and there will be the same for this system. In addition this current system has been evolving and changing through the last 8 years. What was good 3 years ago may not make it now.
6) Let's also look at the history of skating since about 1988 onward. It seems like skating is going backward right now and maybe it is. But like any system that is "restarting", things need to get sorted out and new generations need to come forward. We will be seeing those generations soon. Look at kids like the novice men's champ nathan chen. 10 years old and 3 triples I think in his long program as well as the spins and great footwork sequences. This is the type of skater that grew up with this new system. quads were done while school figures were in place because they fostered body control and discipline. When they went away, the next set of skaters grew in the shadow of that discipline but didnt have that extra pressure and had more time to devote to the jumps. quad fever. Now with this new system, all the spinning and footwork reqiurements (if you want to be a contender) are like adding figures back. So there needs to be an adjustment made and it will happen over time, I'm sure of that.
Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug. Plushenko benefitted from the same things he criticizes. He simply wanted to win and didnt like the results. Boo hoo. Be a good sportsman and leave off criticizing someone who hasn't done anything wrong but win.
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- Jun 21, 2003
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- Dec 4, 2009
Quad should be worth more than what it should, I agree.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
I am reluctant to say this, but in the grand scheme of things Chan is a nobody whose opinion carries no weight whatsoever.
When the dust is settled, in the distant future (if FS would survive as a so-called "sport" at all) Plushenko will be remembered as a legend among all legends. Who else in modern era ever competed in three olympics and had the legitimate claim of being the true winner of all three, judges' decisions notwithstanding? (Yes, Plushenko would have won gold against Yagudin under the new system. He could not win at SLT because he finished 4th in the short program, which would have been of little consequence under the new system.)
When the dust is settled, in the distant future (if FS would survive as a so-called "sport" at all) Plushenko will be remembered as a legend among all legends. Who else in modern era ever competed in three olympics and had the legitimate claim of being the true winner of all three, judges' decisions notwithstanding? (Yes, Plushenko would have won gold against Yagudin under the new system. He could not win at SLT because he finished 4th in the short program, which would have been of little consequence under the new system.)
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- Jun 3, 2009
Heh. You must have a different definition of legitimate than I. Plushenko will be remembered as a legend in the sport, no doubt. His competitive vigour, his athleticism, the 4-3-3, the Torino rout. All these things contribute to his luster the way that Torvill/Dean's perfect 6.0s do theirs. But people will look at his 2010 program in a hundred years and wonder where all the skating is, and why is he flirting with the judges.
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- Oct 31, 2005
So you believe you're entitled to issue a death threat to a skater, but a skater isn't entitled to say a colorful word describing the most delightful of human activities. That's some wacky standards you got there.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
Completely agree with you. Chan is pretty much just another journeyman. He would not have received the attention had he not been a skater from the host country of the Olympics.
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- Mar 4, 2004
I don't care for the quad; it seems to have caused nothing but a host of injuries for those who land it including Plushenko and Yagudin. Remember Elvis's groin injury? I would rather have healthy skaters who can actually skate after their amateur careers.. Honestly, it is an amazing accomplishment that Plushenko was able to come back at the level he did. Full kudos to him for that. But, he wasn't artistic in the past and he still isn't. He could have beaten everyone on the technical mark probably, but he chose not to do this. I think his physical issues might have prevented him from spacing jumps throughout the long program and that may have been the smartest decision from his POV. He doesn't want to risk injury- but it factored into the scoring. Maybe the triple axel is retograde, but it is a much prettier jump. ( Yes, I know Evan's triple axel isn't particularly pretty! 
)
Evan's not my favorite skater either by a long margin. I think his 2006 LP was more "inspiring"- but I don't think it is emotional or nationalistic to feel that he won this fairly. C'mon guys, if Evan had jumped on the gold podium if he won the silver- everyone-including me- would think that was jerky behavior. It is jerky behavior- if you are Russian or American or anything else. Plushenko said he 'forgot" he didn't win the gold. I know that is sardonic humor- but it isn't sportsmanlike. I won't say that it is.
Also, I wish all of these skaters who have been to two or more Olympics would retire ... Let the new ones come. Plushenko's legacy is solid as he said himself. But, I'm sorry. He wouldn't be Dick Button if he had won two gold medals. Button landed the first double axel and triple jump in competition in his Olympics. Plushenko is a great champion, but he isn't an innovator in that rank. ( and neither is Evan- of course or Scott or most of the others).
)Evan's not my favorite skater either by a long margin. I think his 2006 LP was more "inspiring"- but I don't think it is emotional or nationalistic to feel that he won this fairly. C'mon guys, if Evan had jumped on the gold podium if he won the silver- everyone-including me- would think that was jerky behavior. It is jerky behavior- if you are Russian or American or anything else. Plushenko said he 'forgot" he didn't win the gold. I know that is sardonic humor- but it isn't sportsmanlike. I won't say that it is.
Also, I wish all of these skaters who have been to two or more Olympics would retire ... Let the new ones come. Plushenko's legacy is solid as he said himself. But, I'm sorry. He wouldn't be Dick Button if he had won two gold medals. Button landed the first double axel and triple jump in competition in his Olympics. Plushenko is a great champion, but he isn't an innovator in that rank. ( and neither is Evan- of course or Scott or most of the others).
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- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Hey, I like Chan quite a bit, but I can see where you're coming from. I think he'll be more once he gets (if he gets?) a solid triple axel. I remember his 3A from 4CC 2009 and it was a beauty. But at this stage, he's more potential than fulfillment, and the biggest mistake the Canadian Media made was calling him the latter instead of the former. I'll root for him though - he's a talent.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
I love Plushenko, but it was justifiably close between him and Evan despite the quad because Evan's jumps were cleaner. Now, I do agree that difficulty of elements (especially jumps) is important in the SPORT we call Figure Skating, but quality is also important.
If Plushenko and Evan had the same quality of jumps, then there would have been no question that Plushenko would have gotten that second Gold. But this was not so. Evan had better quality, and Plushenko had more difficulty. Evan squeaked by. My Mom/casual viewer thought Evan skated the best and she did enjoy his performance.
I agree with figuristka, I liked Johnny Weir's FS the most. Kozuka also landed a beauty of a quad. That was thrilling.
Currently, the quad is not essential for Men's Figure Skating, but I do think it should be worth more. It shows exceptional athleticism and requires years of training to be able to do. And, it's fading fast. The only reason we saw any quads or quad attempts at this year's Olympics is probably because of Plushenko.
If Plushenko and Evan had the same quality of jumps, then there would have been no question that Plushenko would have gotten that second Gold. But this was not so. Evan had better quality, and Plushenko had more difficulty. Evan squeaked by. My Mom/casual viewer thought Evan skated the best and she did enjoy his performance.
I agree with figuristka, I liked Johnny Weir's FS the most. Kozuka also landed a beauty of a quad. That was thrilling.
Currently, the quad is not essential for Men's Figure Skating, but I do think it should be worth more. It shows exceptional athleticism and requires years of training to be able to do. And, it's fading fast. The only reason we saw any quads or quad attempts at this year's Olympics is probably because of Plushenko.
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- Jun 27, 2003
Patrick Chan isn't far from greatness
http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/newsmakers/story/2010/02/19/spo-channewsmaker.html?ref=rss
http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/newsmakers/story/2010/02/19/spo-channewsmaker.html?ref=rss
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- Jan 15, 2010
Then please do clarify what you prefer, because from what I have seen in your previous comments, they have pointed towards, "Do the quad and you will win. Don't do the quad, and you deserve to lose."
So all Chan needs is to "skate clean", and the OGM is his? Perhaps. But he's never skated two clean programs in an international competition, let alone the Olympics. In Vancouver, neither the SP nor the FS was clean. I notice this article made no mention of Chan's elusive 3A, which he's struggled with for the past 3 years. It also carefully didn't mention the quad.
Chan's marks in Vancouver were quite inflated due to the home ice factor. So the comparison between Chan's scores and Lysacek's scores doesn't hold much water, because in Sochi, the home ice advantage will belong to another skater, not Chan.
I can't believe a 16 year old would use profanity. Gosh darn it, this golly jeepers gee wiz world is going to heck!
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
You were being sarcastic, right? 'cause growing up, all my friends started swearing at about eleven.
Chan should just shut his mouth and focus on what he can do. If you don't have a quad nor reliable triple axel, don't say things like "quad doesn't make you a man" (I was LMAO when I saw this on CTV lol) or things like that. How embarrassing. Plushenko gets to say what he says because he earned that status. Chan? His best achievement is that silver medal at 2009 worlds (who cares about canadian nationals). Canadians should stop overrating their athletes. Chan wouldn't be so full of himself if it werent for Canadians making him feel like he is one of the best which is far from truth.
