Fedor Andreev and Jana Khokhlova | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Fedor Andreev and Jana Khokhlova

Has anybody seen them skating together?
I thought that Oxana Domnina would look better in pair with Andreev because she is taller than Yana. A dance pair with big difference in height looks not that harmonic, in my opinion. Not sure if anyone suggested that Oxana try to skate with Andreev. In her interviews she said that it was difficult for her to live in the US long, so anyway now she does not want to move to US again.
Yana really wanted to move to the US to practice in Zueva and Shpilband's group. Although after the Olympics I thought that she with Novitsky would change coach, and in my opinion Evgeny Platov would be the best for them. Then I did not know that Novitsky would retire.
 
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I'd love to see them succeed. He's been nipping around the edges of skating for too many years, and I'd be thrilled if he finally found something to commit to in this field. The first time I saw him was in the televised Grinkov memorial program. I've had hopes for him ever since, and so far--I still have hopes.
 
Ellen said:
Has anybody seen them skating together?
I thought that Oxana Domnina would look better in pair with Andreev because she is taller than Yana. A dance pair with big difference in height looks not that harmonic, in my opinion. Not sure if anyone suggested that Oxana try to skate with Andreev. In her interviews she said that it was difficult for her to live in the US long, so anyway now she does not want to move to US again.
Yana really wanted to move to the US to practice in Zueva and Shpilband's group. Although after the Olympics I thought that she with Novitsky would change coach, and in my opinion Evgeny Platov would be the best for them. Then I did not know that Novitsky would retire.
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My understanding was that Domnina was actually asked if she would skate with a new partner (Shabalin obviously would retire after the Olympics), but she said no. Domnina is so tall and statuesque that it is hard for me to imagine her skating with anyone other than Shabalin and still pull of level four lifts, etc
 
To tell the truth I'm afraid of seeing the "flea & gorilla" look when it comes to these two, shades of Irina Rodnina & her pair partners. (8^/
 
Nadine said:
To tell the truth I'm afraid of seeing the "flea & gorilla" look when it comes to these two, shades of Irina Rodnina & her pair partners. (8^/
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I don´t think that Rodnina is such a good example, since she was rather robust looking. Short, but not tiny at all, I would say, LOL. I seem to remember though that there were one or two Russian (or East German) pairs in past, which brought a big gorilla and a tiny rag doll into my mind, LOL.
 
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Jaana said:
I don´t think that Rodnina is such a good example, since she was rather robust looking. Short, but not tiny at all, I would say, LOL. I seem to remember though that there were one or two Russian (or East German) pairs in past, which brought a big gorilla and a tiny rag doll into my mind, LOL.
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Well, Katya Gordeeva hardly reached Sergey's shoulder in the beginning, but they still looked very nice. I think in pairs it is ok when the partner is much taller, but in dancing - not really.
 
I think we're just used to seeing dance pairs of similar heights because there's no need for the lady to be so unusually tiny in a dance team, so taller ladies don't get eliminated by the process of survival of the fittest that occurs in pairs. Of course a taller lady looks very elegant in ice dance. But there's no reason not to have a tiny lady, if the two dancers can make it look graceful.

Interestingly, I remember that the first year I really loved Denkova/Staviskiy, the year of their lovely Baroque compulsory dance (2003, I think?), the commentator (either Tracy Wilson or Susie Wynne) said that their similarity in height actually made it harder for them to look elegant...so the opposite situation can also be true, though it certainly didn't make me love them any less.

The fact is that a great pair can go against all the assumptions. What remains to be seen is whether this is a great pair in the making. If they are, no height difference will stop them. If they aren't (alas), no amount of beauty will help them.
 
Olympia said:
The fact is that a great pair can go against all the assumptions. What remains to be seen is whether this is a great pair in the making. If they are, no height difference will stop them. If they aren't (alas), no amount of beauty will help them.
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Do not 100% agree. Ice-dancing is not only for judges but for the spectators. I prefer to watch a dance when dancers fit each other. For example, how graceful, stately Oxana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin were. They would not look so nice if there was bigger difference in height.
Now ice-dancing moved away of the classical dancing, and pairs that do not look that good can win. For example, I watched Davis/White FD live on Moscow Rostelecom Cup last November and did not like them at all. Their music was too aggressive and heavy, skaters ran around the skating-rink too fast. I saw no beauty, no grace, mostly acrobatics. They were good technically, but not that nice to watch.
So now even with much height difference Yana&Fedor can reach something if they are good technically and meet the latest rules.
 
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Ellen said:
Do not 100% agree. Ice-dancing is not only for judges but for the spectators. I prefer to watch a dance when dancers fit each other. For example, how graceful, stately Oxana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin were. They would not look so nice if there was bigger difference in height.
Now ice-dancing moved away of the classical dancing, and pairs that do not look that good can win. For example, I watched Davis/White FD live on Moscow Rostelecom Cup last November and did not like them at all. Their music was too aggressive and heavy, skaters ran around the skating-rink too fast. I saw no beauty, no grace, mostly acrobatics. They were good technically, but not that nice to watch.
So now even with much height difference Yana&Fedor can reach something if they are good technically and meet the latest rules.
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Ellen, your post raises up a number of competing thoughts that I hope others address, but my thoughts.

1. I think there's a difference between "height mismatch" and "not fitting." For example, I think Dubrueil and Lauzon fit each other quite well. The flaws they had didn't come from not fitting each other, anyway. Whereas a team like the Kerrs don't have a major height difference, but that serves to emphasize their flaws (lack of harmony/unison, extension.) Of course, each team had ways of working around/distracting from their flaws.

2. Domnina/Shabalin, at their best, were stunningly elegant. But it wasn't dance trends that pushed them away from that, and this needs to be reiterated. It was the fact that Shabalin's knees were giving out and this actually hurt their elegance. They tried to cover that up with outre programs that were "oo aggressive and heavy, skaters ran around the skating-rink too fast. I saw no beauty, no grace, mostly acrobatics," and it worked to the tune of a World Championship and Olympic bronze medal, but I don't see how you can criticize Davis/White's FD this season and not comment at all about D/S' efforts in that department.

But they did fit and fit extraordinarily well with each other. Biology had different ideas, however.

3. Conversely, I don't think Davis/White's flaws are because they don't fit, through and of itself, anyway. The criticism you have of them (mostly acrobatics) is reductive but not entirely unfair. I find they're so concerned with hitting the difficult positions in their movements that they forget the beauty of the movements. Indeed, when picking at nits between them and Virtue/Moir, that will be a pretty fundamental difference for me. I did think they started in the right direction with "Samson and Delilah" though.

4. Virtue/Moir have been consistently praised for the way they combine pure/classical dancing with the difficult stuff. I find it telling that they tend to fall a little behind D/W when it comes to the base values because they don't always hit the level fours in terms, but consistently outstrip them in terms of GOE and PCS. Hell, I can watch Mahler (and have) for the beauty of Virtue's arm placements alone (I'm in love with this team, of course. What Kwan is to Mathman, V/M are to me). They hit so many beautiful, expressive positions throughout their program and do so with a harmony of movement and body that can reduce me to tears.
 
ImaginaryPogue said:
but I don't see how you can criticize Davis/White's FD this season and not comment at all about D/S' efforts in that department.
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I did not like the FD of Davis/White. I did not like neither music (too heavy and aggressve for me) nor their dance. I could not understand for what they were given such high marks, but then I realized that they were strong technically, high speed and hard acrobatic tricks. So far I do not like this pair. It is my personal view.
Vise versa I've always loved Oxana/Maxim. Their FD at 2009 Worlds was so nice - could not compare them with anybody else. Maybe my perception of them the past year was subjective.

ImaginaryPogue said:
4. Virtue/Moir have been consistently praised for the way they combine pure/classical dancing with the difficult stuff. I find it telling that they tend to fall a little behind D/W when it comes to the base values because they don't always hit the level fours in terms, but consistently outstrip them in terms of GOE and PCS. Hell, I can watch Mahler (and have) for the beauty of Virtue's arm placements alone (I'm in love with this team, of course. What Kwan is to Mathman, V/M are to me). They hit so many beautiful, expressive positions throughout their program and do so with a harmony of movement and body that can reduce me to tears.
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I agree that V/M were really best dance-pair last year. They are beautiful, they had that elegancy and grace that D/W lacks.
 
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ImaginaryPogue said:
Ellen, your post raises up a number of competing thoughts that I hope others address, but my thoughts.

1. I think there's a difference between "height mismatch" and "not fitting." For example, I think Dubrueil and Lauzon fit each other quite well. The flaws they had didn't come from not fitting each other, anyway. Whereas a team like the Kerrs don't have a major height difference, but that serves to emphasize their flaws (lack of harmony/unison, extension.) Of course, each team had ways of working around/distracting from their flaws.
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Pogue, you articulated very well what I was getting at: height mismatch might not necessarily get in the way of the overall beauty of an ice dance couple. We're used to long, elegant lines in both the man and the lady (for example Klimova/Ponomarenko, one of my all-time favorite couples), and that's wonderful. But there may be other height combinations that can achieve the harmony of a glorious couple. While it's a bit unfair to compare a pair to an ice-dance couple because of the difference in moves, many of us have always found Underhill and Martini to be a supremely beautiful pair, with both physical flow and chemistry. They did indeed "skate as one," yet Paul is quite tall, and Barbara is petite. They often spoke of the efforts Paul made to match his stroking to Barbara's. That's what I was thinking of when I made my earlier point.

Whether K. and A. will be exemplars of this harmonious beauty remains to be seen, but one day, some petite-with-tall couple will be, of that I am sure.

Ellen, I have to laugh at myself, though--I've been wracking my brains trying to think of a movie dance team that proves my point, and I can't come up with a single one. This is possibly because the two premier male dancers of the golden age of Hollywood musicals were rather small. So no one looked petite next to Fred Astaire or Gene Kelly! In fact, the long-legged Cyd Charisse famously wore flats when dancing with both these men. What can I say? I may be proved completely wrong about the height difference.
 
:) I don't know if news of a new pairing has ever inspired the amount of speculation that we're seeing over K/A. I keep reminding myself that by the time Russian nationals roll around they will only have been together, what..5 or 6 months?..and I should be looking to see potential and not a totally finished product..( I know Marina said there was a possibility that we could see them sooner if they're ready, but I think that would be a long shot.)

ellen , I agree with much of what you say about height differences in the ideal , but the ideal isn't always possible and it's interesting to me to see how a team has compensated for whatever is against them physically, and whether they can make me forget it.
IP gives a good example in Dubreuil and Lauzon ..and what was the height difference between Torvill and Dean ?

I'm also intrigued to see Meryl and Charlie this year ( since ellen mentions them ) I really like them a lot ( though not as much as V/M and for different reasons ), but ellen's critique is not without some merit, and looking at their music choices for this year on paper, it looks to me like Z/S are probably addressing those very points.
 
Seeing is believing, I hope somebody could upload the video of their premier FD :biggrin:

But in the back of my mind, I sort of agree with i love to skate...will this partnership last long?:think:
 
I saw these pictures the other day and was absolutely shocked! Seriously, I thought they were going to look like the "flea & gorilla", but surprisingly not, rather they do make an attractive couple on the ice, leastways in pictures. It will be interesting to see what they actually look like out on the ice, in competition, that's the real test...
 
Aha ! It was hinted that they might compete before Russian nationals , but only if ready...and it means we might see some video a little sooner...:biggrin:
 
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