That was when she started fixing her flutz.
Starting from the 2007-2008 season, they started to dock off points for flutz. She used to do 2 lutzes per long program, and then switched to 1. Before the rule changed, she almost never missed her flutz.
Adelina Sotnikova - flutz or not?
- Thread starter koheikun90
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That was when she started fixing her flutz.
Starting from the 2007-2008 season, they started to dock off points for flutz. She used to do 2 lutzes per long program, and then switched to 1. Before the rule changed, she almost never missed her flutz.
Are we seeing the same thing. Pause that video at 0:28, right when her toe jammed down, she switch to a deep inside edge. It's an obvious flutz.
I think Adelina will be fine as long as her other jumps are good. She can replace her lutz combo with another 3-3 if the calls get stricter. But they got rid of the "!", so I am thinking edge calls have somewhat loosened. I agree with Flattfan that when Mao started fixing her flutz, the jump became inconsistent. She would have earned more points just by doing that jump even with the incorrect edge rather than leaving it out completely. But I think Mao had a lot of pressure to correct that jump since she received much criticism for it (which was kinda unfair since she wasn't the only one who had this problem).
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Yes, I agree that Mao was a little 'pushed' to correct the jump. I even remember seeing a short clip from ESPN solely about Mao's flutz on youtube. I think they picked her as an example because she was considered the most promising young lady skater - probably more so than Yuna at that time. However, I also would like to point out that she didn't have too many choices since her 3T and 3S were not really good enough back then. She needed to fix the flutz to keep her TES base value on the high level. That didn't work out very well but her 3A more than made up for it and got her the OSM. I don't think she has ever been completely a non-factor.
About Adelina's f/lutz, we can't clearly tell from the JGP video but it seems that many agree that it's on borderline. I hope she can improve it and make it as perfect as possible before she enters the senior circuit since we all know details/strictness of the rules are somewhat precarious and I don't want her to get hit by surprise when she's developed a stronger habit. (I feel sorry for Mao because this is what happened to her.)
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Yes, as obvious as it gets. I still can't believe she got full credit for THREE.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I agree with you on that. I had heard of Adelina but hadn't seen her skate until the Austrian JGP event. Since then I also had a chance to see some earlier clips of her skating.
I think she is a fabulous young skater and her jumps look very good to me. She has other qualities that standout and perhaps it is a testament to Adelina's talent that a few want to focus in on one split second of her performance while overlooking the rest which was good enough to post a great score and win a JGP gold medal.
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- Joined
- Nov 22, 2009
To me, it looks like: SP--flutz. LP--first one in combo I honestly can't tell from angle and video quality. Second one looks like a flutz. In general, if you have a flutzer, it's usually not occasional but habitual. that makes the first one in the LP suspect as well.
I think the main principle should be: Call consistently across all competitors. If you are calling flutzes, call them on all the perpetrators, or don't call them at all on anybody. Selectively picking and choosing who to be tough on doesn't seem very fair.
I think the main principle should be: Call consistently across all competitors. If you are calling flutzes, call them on all the perpetrators, or don't call them at all on anybody. Selectively picking and choosing who to be tough on doesn't seem very fair.
and then she will be Olympic Champion
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- May 15, 2009
Why didn't you ask this:
Is it fair that Mao gets penalized for her flutz when Adelina seems to be getting a pass on hers :think:
Isn't it possible that if the tech panel thinks Adelina flutzes they will penalize her just the way they do when they think Mao flutzes? Or URs a 3A?
The original post suggested the judges might be cheating for Adelina. If we think about that we can consider a federation trying to influence judges to protect a favored skater.
In the case of the Russian federation they have way too many emerging young girls to start playing that game right now. Even if they could - why would they use influence to protect Adelina as opposed to Elizaveta? What about all of the Polina's and Ana?
Is it possible the Russian federation has figured out a way to make all of these young skaters the favorite in the judges eyes?
Or is it possible the young Russian girls are on there way to becoming a force in junior skating and are outskating their young rivals so far this season.
Geez - it was one JGP event and already fans are calling for the judges scalps.
And based on a fuzzy clip at that. :sheesh:
I just know that calls are made inconsistently and not all offenders are penalized equally. Well personally, I am okay if skaters are not penalized if these issues aren't obvious but I agree with the poster who said that if they are going to make strict calls, they should do it consistently or not at all.
Why didn't you ask this:
Is it fair that Mao gets penalized for her flutz when Adelina seems to be getting a pass on hers :think:
Isn't it possible that if the tech panel thinks Adelina flutzes they will penalize her just the way they do when they think Mao flutzes? Or URs a 3A?
The original post suggested the judges might be cheating for Adelina. If we think about that we can consider a federation trying to influence judges to protect a favored skater.
In the case of the Russian federation they have way too many emerging young girls to start playing that game right now. Even if they could - why would they use influence to protect Adelina as opposed to Elizaveta? What about all of the Polina's and Ana?
Is it possible the Russian federation has figured out a way to make all of these young skaters the favorite in the judges eyes?
Or is it possible the young Russian girls are on there way to becoming a force in junior skating and are outskating their young rivals so far this season.
Geez - it was one JGP event and already fans are calling for the judges scalps.
And based on a fuzzy clip at that. :sheesh:
While the Russians have a lot of young juniors and well you never know, I think that the Russian federation knows that Adelina and Elizaveta are right now the best two juniors they have. In terms of overall ability the others all have some issues. But they are hardly going to start playing favorites at this point. This being said I'm not sure how Adelina and Gao's flutzes can be compared. One is very obvious the other's less obvious and Adelina is a new skater. Lets wait and see.
I do think people are going after her because they see her as a major threat.
As for the battle between Liza and Adelina it could be very interesting. I can't shake the feeling that while Adelina is better now, Liza will someone close the gap. (The 3axel will help)
I adore Adelina though its like her coaches decided to create a baby ballerina but give her Russian stroking, basics and jumping technique. Fabulous! She's exquisite now (the way she holds her arms/head etc) I can't imagine how exquisite she'll be in a couple of years. I really love what her coaches are doing with her. I know that the judges were going to go nuts over this girl when they finally got to see her.
It would be interesting if both Liza and Adelina survive puberty because one has St Petersburg coaches (Liza) and Adelina is from Moscow. There's been a long rivalry between the skating schools of those cities and there very well could be a blood bath. One thing that may unfortunately work against Adelina is that Moscow has their most promising dance tea ms, and the most promising pair (V/T). However I can see right now Adelina getting more support from outsiders. I think one way Tarasova won the battle in Yagudin/Plushenko was giving Yagudin programs/choregraphy that would appeal more to N. Americans etc.
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I just want to clarify that I am not really going after Adelina. My issues have more to do with the CoP system itself. 
I really like Adelina as a skater and I am excited to see the rivalry between her and Liza in the near future. From what I see now, Adelina has better packaging while Liza has better quality in her jumps. If Liza gets better packaging in the future, then it will get really interesting.
I really like Adelina as a skater and I am excited to see the rivalry between her and Liza in the near future. From what I see now, Adelina has better packaging while Liza has better quality in her jumps. If Liza gets better packaging in the future, then it will get really interesting.
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- Jun 3, 2008
Adelina is way more polished and has more beautiful lines than Liza, but i like a ittle more Liza's jumping, when she is on. She looks more powerful. Did she have edge problems in brasov? I dont remember. She needs more personality and more ballet there, cause Adelina is more accurate in her moves. And more fast. Why you say that about outside coaches?Its because Liza skates more russian?
Have you seen Lipnitskaya? She gets eligible next year but she has an amazing flexibility!
Have you seen Lipnitskaya? She gets eligible next year but she has an amazing flexibility!
Thanks for all of this context. Now, I'm really intrigued. Cool, the next four years could be even more interesting than I thought. Pass the poporn, order the pizza, pop open the beers! Or shake up those mojitos, for seniorita...
I agree, Adelina's strengths is her polish and lines which is not so easy to achieve. No sure if better packaging is really the issue, although I'm sure her coaches concentrate on that, too. I'm not as familiar with Liza. And I've never seen Lipnitskaya.
I don't think Bekalc meant outside coaches, I think he meant outside audience or judges or something like that. Of course, Adelina did just win an event so there's bound to be hype, even if temporary.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I second that
The comparison about packaging with Tat/Yags and Mishin/Plushy makes me think Adelina will have an advantage over Liza for now.
I see great potential in Liza but not a very distinctive skating style yet. I know she is young - but at the moment I prefer Adelina. And that could change - even as early as the end of this season.
ETA: Did someone mention "baby ballerinas"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZE4Hemcrg&feature=related
Sasha at 14 was already so polished it boggles the mind.
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- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
i posted a bunch of videos in the international ladies thread
There really is no other way to say it - it boggles the mind. And when I see these new ballerinas I can't help but compare them to Sasha. I think the more years pass by the more Sasha will be appreciated. She was unique.
And still unmatched in some respects. (I might add that's great and a little poignant to see her doing a perfect long program here, knowing what we do about the future. )Thanks, I just watched them and replied. :thumbsup:
