Michelle Attends U.S. State Dinner for China President Hu Jintao

[Olympia]

That's right, Rain. As I said in an earlier post, I find that idea pleasing. I don't know whether it's overconfidence or faith in the usefulness of the language of Shakespeare and Bill Gates, but we seem to think that people who come to live here will end up fluent in English, whether or not they retain their family language as well. Statistics show that this hope is not misplaced: by the third generation, most immigrants are fluent in English. Many of them are fluent in the first generation, in fact. I'm sure this trend of linguistic assimilation is true in other countries that accept immigrants as well.

I have another question about Chinese languages. Since they are tonal languages, is that an impediment for deaf people to learn to communicate by voice? In our country there are two schools of thought about how the deaf should learn communication: by signing or by vocal speech. Some learn just one by preference, some learn both--but technically, any deaf person who wants to learn spoken English (or French, or Italian, or Greek, and so on) certainly can. What is the situation for Chinese? Is it even possible to learn vocal speech? If so, how is it done?

 

[aftertherain]

Funny how if anything besides MK is great is said people feel like defending her. lol. And the Tribe thing is exactly all that really appears to be presented here. JSYK I do think MK is great and a fine example of an American. I was talking about the perception of her from China. In the eyes of China it is my opinion that China does not concider her a part of there tribe. And tribes are essentuly the problem anyway. One world one tribe. The programme has changed.

Now would you guys stop making good conversation with me so I can get back to reading "From Axels to Zambonis" LOL. I am on the Judging and scoring part and this really is distracting. J/K. Just having some fun with the last comment.

So you can have your opinion and I can't have mine? I respect your opinion, and I'd appreciate it if you respected mine by not going "Funny how if anything besides MK is great is said people feel like defending her". Quite frankly, I find it condescending and dismissive.

 

[aftertherain]

That's right, Rain. As I said in an earlier post, I find that idea pleasing. I don't know whether it's overconfidence or faith in the usefulness of the language of Shakespeare and Bill Gates, but we seem to think that people who come to live here will end up fluent in English, whether or not they retain their family language as well. Statistics show that this hope is not misplaced: by the third generation, most immigrants are fluent in English. Many of them are fluent in the first generation, in fact. I'm sure this trend of linguistic assimilation is true in other countries that accept immigrants as well.

I have another question about Chinese languages. Since they are tonal languages, is that an impediment for deaf people to learn to communicate by voice? In our country there are two schools of thought about how the deaf should learn communication: by signing or by vocal speech. Some learn just one by preference, some learn both--but technically, any deaf person who wants to learn spoken English (or French, or Italian, or Greek, and so on) certainly can. What is the situation for Chinese? Is it even possible to learn vocal speech? If so, how is it done?

As for your first paragraph, I really meant it when I didn't want to get into it, but I think it'd be disrespectful of me not to say something about it after I'd brought it up. Haha. I think it's actually a little more complicated than linguistic (is that the right word?) assimilation. Much argument is devoted also to documents and forms. For example, if you apply to renew your passport, you may see that the form is printed in different languages. Some states have taken action to eliminate foreign-language forms by declaring English as its official state language. It has to do with the amount of money spent on translating and printing non-English documents, cultural identity, and also of your aforementioned argument/opinion.

As for your second paragraph, I'm really not sure. I'm sure they can learn a dialect, much like the deaf can learn English, but if they were to learn a different dialect other than their own, I'd imagine that's where things get complicated. As a person of Asian descent, I have enough trouble with the different dialects of the Chinese language. I speak one dialect at home, learned another one in school and a lot of family and family friends speak like five other dialects (my grandmother can speak three or four, I think) so if I already have enough trouble with two, I'd imagine it'd be a little more difficult for them.

 

[katia]

"But the thing is, the different Chinese dialects originated in China which means even though they're all considered "chinese""
Wrong. The people of Tibet or Xinjiang speak their own language. The Chinese is imperialist language to them. Further, the many china dialects started as different languages and were different from Mandarin.

 

[seniorita]

You say it like she's supposed to be the President or some high-ranking international politician.

What?
I would pleasantly vote her instead of some present politician ladies in high ranking places.

 

[aftertherain]

"But the thing is, the different Chinese dialects originated in China which means even though they're all considered "chinese""
Wrong. The people of Tibet or Xinjiang speak their own language. The Chinese is imperialist language to them. Further, the many china dialects started as different languages and were different from Mandarin.

Forgot to add that bit in. I apologize.

And I did say that the different chinese dialects are different.

 

[aftertherain]

What?
I would pleasantly vote her instead of some present politician ladies in high ranking places.

President of the ISU? Kidding, kidding. Either way, you'd probably vote for Plushenko as ISU Prez.

 

[SeaniBu]

I fully understand all aspect of this prior to my comments. And again MK is great and a fantastic representative who does hold a title in the US government - Diplomat. But I think she has done and will continue to do more for how Americans feel about China than China feels about America. Does her part and I am grateful that there is such a fine representative of the USA when China comes around.

Agreeing and disagreeing at the same time, understood.

And I didn't "say it like" - you interpreted it as such. She is a Diplomat and is doing a great job with what popularity she has - apparently not as much as I would have thought but still a fair amount more than many others. Chinese are generally VERY critical and look for aspects of flaw (just as most do) and I pointed out how THEY MIGHT feel. I am not China so how could I say without just stating my opinion and that of what Chinese people I know?

If anyone thinks it the only a difference is accents in language used under the category of "English"... it think it is not an understanding as much as an assumption without investigation.

I forgot to mention earlier, Jimmy Carter is a WONDERFUL man - presidential aspects aside (can we though, he was the first one China let in to talk) he is a warm wonderful compassionate man. And an Olympic Games fan as well. I have a friend who turns off FS when it is on during the Olys, he knows who she is and he is in his 20s. She is the most glorified FSer of all time. And before you go saying, "you are saying that like you mean..." I DO mean she deserves it" - she is the Kween agreed. SHe changed the way I looked at FS in my life all the way to inadvertently delegated the physical attributes I wanted in a girlfriend.

Oh back on the dialect thing. Go back and read some of my posts, particularly when I first came on. As much time as I spent "rewording" my post so some could understand I would say supports I have a different dialect than some. You can't hear me talk so what did it have to do with accent and why were they clear to some and not to others? well ...

 

[aftertherain]

And I didn't "say it like" - you interpreted it as such. She is a Diplolmat and is doing a great job with what popularity she has - apparently not as much as I would have thought but still a fair amount more than many others.

Fair enough.

CHinese are generally VERY critical and look for aspects of flaw (just as most do) and I pointed out how THEY MIGHT feel.

Uh, no comment.

If anyone thinks it the only a difference is accents in language used under the category of "English"... it think it is not an understanding as much as an assumption without investigation.

With this statement, I'd assume you've done your investigation. Would you please kindly explain before going back to your lovely book?

 

[seniorita]

President of the ISU? Kidding, kidding. Either way, you'd probably vote for Plushenko as ISU Prez.

Well it is fiction plus the kingdom needs a King and the Kween so I m pretty sure I d manage to elect both as Presidents

 

[SeaniBu]

I added an example or two my last post.

 

[aftertherain]

Oh back on the dialect thing. Go back and read some of my posts, particularly when I first came on. As much time as I spent "rewording" my post so some could understand I would say supports I have a different dialect than some. You can't hear me talk so what did it have to do with accent and why were they clear to some and not to others? well ...

Because half the time you were using too many unnecessary words and had some improper grammar. It wasn't about dialects or accents. For me, it was about clarification.

SHe changed the way I looked at FS in my life all the way to inadvertently delegated the physical attributes I wanted in a girlfriend.

Um. Again, no comment. TMI, dude. Ahaha.

 

[aftertherain]

@Seanibu: I can't respond to your PM because you don't accept PMs.:think:

 

[Mathman]

About education, President Hu has an undergraduate degree in hydraulic engineering from a prestigious university in China. (He was also known as an enthusiastic and accomplished singer and ballroom dancer as a student.) As far as I can tell, though, he does not have a master's degree, preferring active politics to academia.

He very likely picked up an honorary doctorate somewhere along the line -- just like Michelle.

 

[SeaniBu]

I don't think you understand what "dialect" is than. Sorry if that sounds rude, but clearly ... 方言. Specific to my region and people who were raised in my region, have no issue understanding me. The extra words and opinion of "bad grammar" is specific to my regional area in which I was raised. Hence this is a perception factor of grammar due to the fact I feel as thought there is horrible grammar posted in this forum - and who cares this is not grammar skater forum. The point is understanding. Bad thing about this is how it brings to light the preconceived nature of understanding. People love to think they know what is being said and why before it is read and reflected. iow, no refection just reading words to try and support ideas that were made before reading.

And watch swamp people or something like that - or should I say "similar" to that. These people read the same word anyone else does and will pronounce it completely different. - Like is an accepted form of a different dialect so widely accepted that it is not understood how it came about in the first place.

I America we accept different words as English yet there are people who don't understand that is dialect just being widely accepted and learned. Other cultures do not do this as often and are "stanch" in the use of a different word for the same definition.

MM, ? Ah price of tea in ... ? Education comments had to do with perception of time it takes to complete an education and the predetermined time it was understood it should take. Everyone has educations - just some more narrow than others and more advanced in some areas and lacking in others ... yadda yadda.

I think the real issue here is that people really believe MK is much more important than she really has demonstrated on a world level to the world. She means so much to us, but ...

So when I try to bring some of you down to earth you get upset.

I will fix that PM thing. No wonder I never get PMs LOL, I do just not for a long time.

 

[aftertherain]

I don't think you understand what "dialect" is than. Sorry if that sounds rude, but clearly ...

The last time I checked, using improper grammar or using strange wording (like I mentioned before) was not in the definition of "dialect", though it discerns between different types of grammar of different regional languages.

You don't have to apologize.

 

[SeaniBu]

Strange wording is a relative term, and judging by prior post of yours it appears so is grammar. You obviously DID NOT check last time. Skate your own skate and be influenced not vicariously live thru... MK

14 - 25?

Here is "checking" -difine: dialect > usage or vocabulary that is characteristic of a specific group of people; "the immigrants spoke an odd dialect of English"; "he has a strong German accent"; "it has been said that a language is a dialect with an army and navy"

 

[Olympia]

That's interesting about President Hu's degree, Math. I always am curious about what well-known and accomplished people studied. Sometimes it really surprises one. (There's one actor, for instance, who went to MIT.) I often find, by the way, that politicians in other countries have degrees in much more substantive fields of study than American politicians do. (I say this with sadness.) A lot of overseas leaders have undergraduate and even graduate degrees in engineering or economics. I don't know why that is, though I have some ideas. It's also interesting to see which world leaders speak another language in addition to their own. Again, the U.S. doesn't come out well in this, though I gather in this case President Hu doesn't exceed us. But a lot of European and Asian leaders speak at least one more language. In our recent history, it's been several secretaries of state who spoke more than one language. Condoleezza Rice is fluent in Russian, I think. Madeline Albright speaks at least three languages--I'm fairly sure she speaks French, and she also speaks Czech because her family came from there.

 

[Mathman]

I think the real issue here is that people really believe MK is much more important than she really has demonstrated on a world level to the world.

Michelle has just begun preparing for a possible career in public service. Let's see what happens. Thirty years from now will be a better time to judge whether she was able to contribute something of substance.

 

[SeaniBu]

Funny the only "leaders" I can think of that did not have "good" educations were either in their place of power due to family blood, default via the death of someone "above" them or Ronald Regan. LOL