Senior Men's LP (starts at 4pm EST)

[Tonichelle]

Joshua Farris broke his ankle DURING his skate today!? http://www.flutzingaround.com/2011/01/joshua-farris-broken-ankle-during-skate.html

 

[seniorita]

in what way does he make KVDP look like Chan? Kevin's cute, but dull... (I do like watching him skate when his jumps are on though). Oh, well, wait... I think Chan is dull too, so yeah next to Ryan everyone's dull!

in the way he is too slow and his feet are rather clumsy. I only say that because you talked about SS. Dont make me speak negatively!I said I love him, didnt you see all the goats I sacrifsed all day?
Everyone looks dull in front of his joy, I agree!

 

[ana]

poor Joshua Farris!

 

[ivy]

Okay, I want to toss this out there again.

Ryan Bradley tacked on a double toe to his second quad to ensure that he got credit for a combo.

He didn't - the protocols list it as a 4T+Seq.

If so, that double toe should be considered another jumping pass, right?

If that's true, then his final jumping pass doesn't count.

His final jumping pass is a 3F that got him 6.83 points

He won by 6.44 points.

Can someone explain where I'm wrong? Maybe the protocols I'm looking at are wrong?

... giving him credit for the 4t2t would give him an extra 3.4 points, fwiw.

I'm confused around this area too - but not quite the same questions. My understanding (I could be wrong ) is that the men can do 8 passes, with 3 combos or seq.. I can see the 4T 2T being listed as a SEQ - the jumps were connected, by a bad loopy landing. But where does the base mark come from? And that 1st 4t should have been downgraded to a 3T.

Don't mean to sound like sour grapes - Ryan is super nice - just like understanding.

 

[Serious Business]

Ryan's win is more controversial because he won over a new skater that the judges may have underscored in the PCS in the SP (which is where Ryan won the competition). In the FS, Dornbush beat Ryan on every PCS and very soundly in the TES. Even with a downgrade on the quad and a bigger gulf in the Skating Skills mark between Bradley and Dornbush, that's still only about a 4-5 point adjustment in Dornbush's favor (i.e. not enough for him to win). I'd need to see Dornbush's SP before I can cry foul. But it certainly is possible.

 

[emma]

Joshua Farris broke his ankle DURING his skate today!? http://www.flutzingaround.com/2011/01/joshua-farris-broken-ankle-during-skate.html

whaaaaaaaaaaat???? I didn't hear that. I'm so, so sorry! Hoping for a very speedy recovery!

About world team/4cc - I think they should follow tradition, send the top three to worlds. I think it would be nice if the 4cc team could be different (like the next three).

 

[ivy]

Send both Miner (sp) and Abbott to 4CC. whoever ranks higher there gets to go to worlds. that's what the Russians did with I/K and R/T, right--let Europeans decide? I like Miner and Dornbush, but why should Bradley's win be more controversial than Alissa's US title #1?

If all USFSA cares about is #spots for next year, Abbott not at his best will likely still score better than Dornbush at his best. ETA Oops I mean Miner. ^_^ But that's true for Dornbush as well.

I like this idea! Doesn't quite fit into the stated selection process though

 

[yunafan1860]

Funny that Ross Miner resembles Jeremy very much.

 

[Mathman]

If that's the case, then he had an illegal jumping pass that should have received zero credit.

It seems like they must have changed the rule about this. (?) As SKateStates points out, Adam Rippon's opening jump was scored the same way -- as a "sequence" with no second jump, and the second jump does not fill a jumping box. (?)

 

[wallylutz]

Ryan had the worst skating skills by far of all of the men tonight. As well his levels for the spins were not there. Where did he get the points? Sympathy votes for sure.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2011/68096/results.html

Looking at the protocol, I thought the judges were very fair with him on the GOE of his TES, I would have scored him very similarly on the GOE of his elements. The Tech Panel appears to be doing a fair job as well, I see no evidence of sympathy points on the 1st mark. Level 2 on the Step Sequence, Level 2, 3 and 4 on each of the three spins. The Tech Panel also refused to count his 2nd Quad as a combo even though he had a double toe there as his stumble disrupted the flow and they think he added an extra step for it to be called a jump combo, which is another -20% on the base value. Though they did give him the 1st Quad at full value, which was borderline of being under-rotated so Bradley got a little break there.

So why did Bradley got such good TES score? His planned content was very challenging and had high base value. Although he didn't execute them well, he didn't downgrade or UR his jumps - he executed 2 Quads and 2 Triple Axels, plus one of every other kind of Triple from Lutz down to Toe Loop. So he has the full repertoire of the Triple jumps covered. In short, my quick analysis of the his TES score indicate the panel did a very fair and thorough job, something I would be personally willing to vouch for their integrity, without a doubt. \

That said, my criticism of the 2nd marks remain the same. Although looking more carefully at the individual judges, a few definitely dinged Bradley as I would, with some 5s in for Transitions but by & large, the PCS he got here is not justified, not even in the context of a national competition. Like I said though, tonight is a tough night to be a judge in this competition, it's just way to whacky and awfully hard to remain cool headed.

 

[gold12345]

Send both Miner (sp) and Abbott to 4CC. whoever ranks higher there gets to go to worlds. that's what the Russians did with I/K and R/T, right--let Europeans decide? I like Miner and Dornbush, but why should Bradley's win be more controversial than Alissa's US title #1?

If all USFSA cares about is #spots for next year, Abbott not at his best will likely still score better than Dornbush at his best. ETA Oops I mean Miner. ^_^ But that's true for Dornbush as well.

That is a great idea. The current selection process (go by Nationals results, ignore actual International results) is weak. How do we know Ross Miner didn't just get lucky today? His previous best Sr result is 7th in a GP event.

 

[Tonichelle]

in the way he is too slow and his feet are rather clumsy.

hmmm I don't think of them as clumsy, just not pointed...

I will agree, though, that his SP's footwork made me wish it were more like Kurt Browning's. Now HE would have lit a fire on the ice with his feet to that music.

 

[oleada]

I think Dornbush, Abbott & Bradley should be the world team. Tough on Miner, yes, but the point difference between him & Jeremy was only .16 points, and I don't think that it should invalidate the entire international fall season. At his worst, Abbott can be top 10 in the world; at his best, it's questionable for Miner. Jeremy's a headcase, but he will no doubt get the PCS. Bradley won't and shouldn't. I think Dornbush will do well if he skates like he did in here and at the JGPF. Miner can go to 4CC.

Aside from the last three men, what a great afternoon of skating it was. Dornbush was my favorite - loved him at the JGPF, love him even more now. This is a great program for him, and he really sold it. Plus those jumps! I also really enjoyed Mahbanoozadeh, Messing & Cassar. I can't wait to see Brown's FS - seems like he had a great one and I normally love his skating.

 

[blue_idealist]

Wow, the results were interesting. Who would have thought Rippon and Mroz wouldn't be near the podium? I'm glad Bradley finally won. I think his 151 was alright because it was the same score as Shawn Sawyer got at Canadians and although Ryan doesn't have the skating skills and artistry of Shawn, he had better technical content. I'll be happy to see both those guys at Worlds. I feel really bad for Abbott but it wasn't his day. I think he will not be named to the world team since the USFSA quickly announced the world team for ladies based on results and didn't seem to consider sending Mirai.

 

[wallylutz]

I'm more surprised that they didn't give him the 2 toe at the end of the second quad. That makes no sense to me. If it's not part of the quad, isn't it another jumping pass? If so, Dornbush should be the National champion.

No, if a jump is not repeated as a combo, so long as it doesn't violate the various rules of being an extra element, it will be credited as a SEQUENCE and receive 20% less in base value for the element, which is not a small penalty. Even if Bradley fall on that jump, he would still get credit for the Quad attempt no matter what.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Congratulations to Bradley! Even though I'm not crazy about this skate, I do want him to win and have the title so he could perform and entertain people in SOI and other organizations.

Yuk, that was the ugliest LP I've ever seen in two years from Jeremy! Jeremy has tried too hard for not peaking at the Nationals which has taken him over the board. I've never thought that he could be left off the podium. What is all that about earring and new hair-dos? Plain ugly!

This is where the committee decision is needed. Will he go to the worlds? The worlds is Jeremy's number one goal this year. If he couldn't go to the worlds, that'll be totally bombed for him. Please USFSA, please! Any officials reading this forum?

Impressive performances from Dornbush and Miner!

 

[ivy]

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2011/68096/results.html

Looking at the protocol, I thought the judges were very fair with him on the GOE of his TES, I would have scored him very similarly on the GOE of his elements. The Tech Panel appears to be doing a fair job as well, I see no evidence of sympathy points on the 1st mark. Level 2 on the Step Sequence, Level 2, 3 and 4 on each of the three spins. The Tech Panel also refused to count his 2nd Quad as a combo even though he had a double toe there as his stumble disrupted the flow and they think he added an extra step for it to be called a jump combo, which is another -20% on the base value. Though they did give him the 1st Quad at full value, which was borderline of being under-rotated so Bradley got a little break there.

So why did Bradley got such good TES score? His planned content was very challenging and had high base value. Although he didn't execute them well, he didn't downgrade or UR his jumps - he executed 2 Quads and 2 Triple Axels, plus one of every other kind of Triple from Lutz down to Toe Loop. So he has the full repertoire of the Triple jumps covered. In short, my quick analysis of the his TES score indicate the panel did a very fair and thorough job, something I would be personally willing to vouch for their integrity, without a doubt. \

Thanks - that helps me see were the 8.24 came from - 20% off the 4T base mark and no points for the 2T

 

[Serious Business]

What the tech callers at this competition did with a combo where a skater stumbles or turns in between jumps is highly unorthodox (they don't count the second jump and call the whole thing as a sequence). As far as I can remember I haven't seen that done at any other competition. Doing that at the SP would be especially harsh, since a combo is a required element and a failure to do it is a mandatory -3 on the GOE. Add to that the second half of the combo not counting, it would be a huger point deduction than if the skater fell on his face. It would be grossly unfair and awful, like the old style way of jump downgrades.

So no, this is not done at other competitions. It's unfair to do it at this one. And as for people suggesting that Adam and Ryan should have their last jumping passes discounted because of the tech specialist's nasty new rule? That's even worse.

There are already enough horrible rules in the COP that prevents skaters from being credited with what they actually did (like skaters who do an extra combo would have the entire combo invalidated, when they used to at least count the first jump). Even the nasty ol' ISU doesn't go that far. For the US championships to do so is ludicrous.

 

[seniorita]

hmmm I don't think of them as clumsy, just not pointed...

I will agree, though, that his SP's footwork made me wish it were more like Kurt Browning's. Now HE would have lit a fire on the ice with his feet to that music.

in his defence , nobody would be fair to have a comparison with Browning!
But i wonder , was mr Inman with the Johnny Weir Trois Points judging tonight?
But Bradley compensates with his great jumps, such flair, great body and the fact that he will be my future husband

 

[Layfan]

It was disappointing night in skating. Yes, great for the news guys who did well - especially Dornbush. But it didn't make up for Jeremy's meltdown and Rippon's disappointing over all competition.