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- Jun 27, 2003
Bradley wants to 'bring home some hardware'
- Thread starter Violet Bliss
- Start date
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- Jun 21, 2003
Well, it was my fault for calling people paranoid. That was wrong.
As for misunderstanding, I think all you can do is say what you mean and hope for the best.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I love sarcasm. It's what the sports reporters use (not entirely) in print journalism. Of course, it makes me angry when they put down the NY Mets, but so what? Let it be. They'll come a day when they'll regret it.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
1. Generally, stating "of course he's gonna win he's a judge's pet, he scores well no matter what he does, he can fall six times and win, why didn't he fall six times to win instead of skating clean" posts are insulting, imo. They're snide and it's disingenuous to state that they're somehow complementary. Personally, I love this men's field
3. Tonichelle, perhaps that's the case. I'm not sure I agree that's the case here, but... RIP Horse.
This season, Joubert's completed two long programs and three short programs internationally. His PCS were
CHN SP: 37.01
TEB SP: 36.11
EC SP: 36.54
CHN LP: 72.50
EC LP: 73.54
Not much fluctuation, but varying degrees of jump success.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
indeed, very well said. You have to skate to win. If you don't, there is no way you ever win. That's what Ryan did at Nationals adding the 3 axel/ 3 toe combo later in the program, pulling every last point out even if he thought he had lost the gold. He still skated to win.
As I skated myself I try to do what I think it takes to win. Maybe I know I won't win that particular event, but if I stick to plan, I leave open the possibility.
Nothing wrong with setting high goals. It is a must in every part of life. You have to aim for a 4.0 GPA to get a 3.8. You have to ask for a $10,000 in order to get a $6,000.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
We can all agree Joubert's career includes a heck of alot more than one season. I recall remarks a noted Russian skater made about Joubert's PCS, and a Jenny Kirk column about it (where is Jenny?).
Joesitz, your post made me think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtfNE4z6a8
This guy raised sarcasm to an artform and had a very successful career.
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- Jun 27, 2003
IIRC she's currently in Idaho. She posted on FB recently that she's refound her love for skating.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
I think Ryan can medal, but highly doubt he will.
He wants it too badly. At Nationals he never said he was there to win. He wanted to give skating one more year, and redeem himself. Of course he wanted to win, but I think he was also about performing for the fans and just skating well.
I think he really wants a medal and like the goal of making the olympic team last year, it might cause him to overthink stuff and falter. If he is clean clean he can medal but i just don't see that happening. But I wish him the best. It would be awesome if he could prove me wrong.
He wants it too badly. At Nationals he never said he was there to win. He wanted to give skating one more year, and redeem himself. Of course he wanted to win, but I think he was also about performing for the fans and just skating well.
I think he really wants a medal and like the goal of making the olympic team last year, it might cause him to overthink stuff and falter. If he is clean clean he can medal but i just don't see that happening. But I wish him the best. It would be awesome if he could prove me wrong.
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- Jun 27, 2003
he proved us all wrong at nationals by winning... so it's possible he can do it again.
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- Jan 23, 2004
I will take that as a compliment Toni. I suspect KW will reappear during Worlds.
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- May 15, 2009
In either case, I think this is as much about the journey for Ryan.
mathman noted yesterday that many of Alissa's fans hope she does well, not for USA but for Alissa herself.
I think many of Ryan's fans are pulling for him to skate well as much for himself as for USA and spots involved for next season.
I just admire some of these skaters who when given up for dead career wise find it in themselves to surprise and even delight us.
We have seen Miki do this and Sarah winning Euros in her farewell competition went beyond the color of her medal. It just had to be a sweet moment for her and although she has been a favorite of mine for years I did not expect her to win Euros this season.
Regardless of how Ryan skates and where he places he has many fans earned over a long career and there is something to be said for that.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
well, the movie script called for sarcasm and he acted well, and the waitress also acted well. Sarcasm plays in masculine lives. Figure Skating as we know it, is a girly sport, despite the quads which are below the level of Skateboard Sport.
Joubert has become an 'oldtimer' and men appreciate that. It's not a question of a medal; it's endurance.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Totally agree, Tiny - and like Joubert, Bradley is showing endurance. Plushenko, too if he skates the Olys.
Sondheim wrote the lyrics: "I got through all of last year, and I'm here, yes I'm here."
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
And when someone does not say that, you should not pretend that he did.
You should not nurse in your mind the fiction that you heard those words when someone says nothing of the kind, but rather says in the most straighforward way possible that he thinks Chan is far ahead of the field and is the man to beat at Worlds.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Mathman, your apology is sincerely accepted. I appreciate you offering it and thank you.
Just for discussion, I can surely appreciate and enjoy sarcasm as an art. I find one of the best way to serve it is to take what the target gives you and go with it, sometimes by carrying the logic to an extreme to expose its folly. However, there is nothing intellectual or artistic about arbitarily assigning a characteristic to someone and then mocking them on that artificial premise. I don't know if it is a form of sarcasm by a dictionary defination, but I am probably not alone in perceiving feigned exaggerated enthusiasm as sarcastic and mocking.
Yes Mathman you can quote yourself verbatim to prove your utter sincerity and you might be but I will give you explanations why it was perceived otherwise. Basically your zealous praise and estimation of Chan's scoring were 1) uncharacteristic of yourself, especially when such praise came with and after the direct derision of his fans. You don't normally express admiration for Chan and you don't exalt your real idol in the same manner; and 2) uncharacteristic of Chan fans on this board and more akin to his detractors.
Like all skaters, Chan must have all kinds of fans, but on this board, we are a civilized bunch, albeit maybe a bit nerdy. Yes we often explain and examine skaters' results by poring over protocols, estimate potential scores and calculate chances based on the COP, the official measuring system. We don't try to build up our guy by tearing down others. Personally I am also a fan of Chan's chief rivals whereas skaters I am critical of are no challenge to Chan in my mind. It is oversensitivity and a sudjective projection to ascribe a Chan-centric motive to my discussions of other skaters and totally amiss to call me and othe fans of Chan paranoid when we are being our analytical selves. When making predictions or figuring Chan's winning chances, his GS fans don't make blanket statements that he will surely win under all circusmstances. We always make qualifying statements such as if they all skate their best or if Patrick skates like he did at Canadian Nationals. Frequent OTT unconditional declarations of Chan's assured wins, OTOH, come from mocking haters who often make personal attacks, ridiculing Chan and his fans and the official scoring system. Not saying all criticism of COP is based on contemp for Chan, just that some resort to that and politics as arsenals when they can't present enough facts and logic to justify their unacceptance of official competition results.
I hope you understand why some of us take your statements within the context and general ambience on this board to be sarcastic. We take it especially seriously because it comes from you, the esteemed Mathman.
Just for discussion, I can surely appreciate and enjoy sarcasm as an art. I find one of the best way to serve it is to take what the target gives you and go with it, sometimes by carrying the logic to an extreme to expose its folly. However, there is nothing intellectual or artistic about arbitarily assigning a characteristic to someone and then mocking them on that artificial premise. I don't know if it is a form of sarcasm by a dictionary defination, but I am probably not alone in perceiving feigned exaggerated enthusiasm as sarcastic and mocking.
Yes Mathman you can quote yourself verbatim to prove your utter sincerity and you might be but I will give you explanations why it was perceived otherwise. Basically your zealous praise and estimation of Chan's scoring were 1) uncharacteristic of yourself, especially when such praise came with and after the direct derision of his fans. You don't normally express admiration for Chan and you don't exalt your real idol in the same manner; and 2) uncharacteristic of Chan fans on this board and more akin to his detractors.
Like all skaters, Chan must have all kinds of fans, but on this board, we are a civilized bunch, albeit maybe a bit nerdy
. Yes we often explain and examine skaters' results by poring over protocols, estimate potential scores and calculate chances based on the COP, the official measuring system. We don't try to build up our guy by tearing down others. Personally I am also a fan of Chan's chief rivals whereas skaters I am critical of are no challenge to Chan in my mind. It is oversensitivity and a sudjective projection to ascribe a Chan-centric motive to my discussions of other skaters and totally amiss to call me and othe fans of Chan paranoid when we are being our analytical selves. When making predictions or figuring Chan's winning chances, his GS fans don't make blanket statements that he will surely win under all circusmstances. We always make qualifying statements such as if they all skate their best or if Patrick skates like he did at Canadian Nationals. Frequent OTT unconditional declarations of Chan's assured wins, OTOH, come from mocking haters who often make personal attacks, ridiculing Chan and his fans and the official scoring system. Not saying all criticism of COP is based on contemp for Chan, just that some resort to that and politics as arsenals when they can't present enough facts and logic to justify their unacceptance of official competition results.I hope you understand why some of us take your statements within the context and general ambience on this board to be sarcastic. We take it especially seriously because it comes from you, the esteemed Mathman.
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
you should totally take it as such. I hope she returns soon. I miss her when she doesn't post, even if she does pick on me!
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- Jun 16, 2010
I guess he plans to shop at a Home Depot centre then.
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- Sep 14, 2008
Bradley will score about 75 in PCS if he skates his best. His technical score will be in the high 80's.
I actually thought he said in a couple of interviews that he WAS going to nationals to win. He said at first he was just telling himself he was going for the crowd but as he started getting his jumps back he started thinking, who am I kidding? I want to win. And he said that he started to think that with two quads in his FS, it wasn't impossible.
He also said that in the past he never honestly believe he could win nationals but just hoped for a medal and that his time he was going with the mentality of trying to take it all. Maybe that's his mentality going into worlds: I don't care what anyone says, I'm going for the podium.
I like that he had that mentality although it's hard to say if it made a difference at nationals. He did very well in the SP but when then faltered in the FS. He won, but Jeremy, Brandon and Adam all did pretty badly.
At worlds, I'm sure he wants desperately to prove he can hold it together and not do as badly as the other two times he has gone. Whether that means, aiming for a medal or aiming for top 10, I'm sure he feels considerable pressure. I would love to seem him do well and land his two quads. Hopefully, he'll have a bit more speed than at nationals, too. Who knows how he'll finish but I just really hope he does well.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
How do you come up with these numbers? Bradley's international LP PB is a total of 145.97 (75.17 TES + 70.80 PCS) whereas his Nationals is 151.51 total (78.17 TES + 73.34 PCS). Your estimate of his best will put his total over 160. I constructed an Extremely Good Case Scenario for him on Shawn Sawyer thread that gave him another extra 5 points for well executed quads while keeping his PCS. You are allowing the possibility of his Worlds PCS to be higher than at Nationals while adding another 10 TES points. WOW.
There is not much to go on statiscally for Bradley 2010-11 since he competed just once, domistically. There are no international scores, no average and no trajectory. So all the hope is placed on his presumed vast improvement between the Nationals and Worlds, or judges sudden generosity. Bradley doing absolute best of his life still needs others' falters to get him a piece of the hoped for hardware.
I am all for him aiming high and, with some divine intervention, a medal might be his. Nobody know what will happen exactly. That's why there are actual competitions. No matter, with his TES BV, he could place reasonably high if he brings his best.
eta. Seeing my numbers didn't add up right in BOP's quote, I came back to correct the TES number here though the error was very minor. Just being a nerd.
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