Current Field of US Skaters | Golden Skate

Current Field of US Skaters

christinaskater

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
I think the US has one of the best pool of talent for Figure skating!

My friend asked me, with the amazing depth of figure skating talent in the US, why are we not getting International major success nowadays?
 
In terms of the ladies: Alissa Czisny won the 2011 ISU Grand Prix Final which is one of the major titles of the sport.In terms of the ladies: Alissa Czisny won the 2011 ISU Grand Prix Final which is one of the major titles of the sport.
Mirai Nagasu- won the bronze medal at the Four Continents Championships which is another major competition.

Alissa almost snatched a medal in the worlds-so I guess we are getting there.lissa almost snatched a medal in the worlds-so I guess we are getting there.



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There are so many amazing talents in the ladies areahere are so many amazing talents in the ladies area

Alissa Czisny
Mirai Nagasu
Rachael Flatt
Amber Corwin
Christina Gao
Agnes Zawadzki
Courtney Hicks

All are amazing and all of them are making a name for themselves.
 
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I fear you're right, for the moment at least, Pogue.

After all, if American skaters were so astonishing, they'd be getting more medals. Almost...not quite.
 
Amber Corwin? She was in the mix about 8 years ago.

I thoroughly agree that the US has a broad field other than ice dance of course. If medals were awarded for the top 6 in each discipline, the US would be right in there all the time, but alas, the top 3 is really all that counts. Nobody remembers the lady that placed 5th at worlds or the pair that placed 6th. The US has a lot of inconsistent skaters and a lot of one dimensional skaters that are really artistic but lack the technical goods or vice versa.
 
Assuming this thread is not just about the ladies, an American man won the Grand Prix Final in 2008, Worlds in 2009, and the Four Continents and Olympics in 2010.
 
I think the US has one of the best pool of talent for Figure skating!

My friend asked me, with the amazing depth of figure skating talent in the US, why are we not getting International major success nowadays?

Define "International major success".

1st and 3rd in ice-dance at Worlds, 5th in Ladies at Worlds, 9th in Mens, 6th in Pairs. Two medals, one World Championship and 4 other top 10 finishes is not a shabby result at all.
 
I agree that the US skaters are very good!

What my friend was saying is, after the Olympics sans ice dancing, the US skaters have not been able to replicate the success of the past generations of skaters especially in the female category.

I did tell her that Mirai finished 4th in the Olympics and is one of the ones to look out for in Sochi. I guess she misses the dominance of Michelle and the other US skaters.

I guess she was sad that Mirai has not really risen to the challenge! I told her that Mirai is having her transition to a sophisticated and mature lady in figure skating and she is getting there. She was I guess surprised that the US ladies has taken a backseat compared to Japan, Korea and Russia.
 
An American man has not medaled at the last two worlds. So that is not good and in 2011 10th was the highest placement. Ouch! But if Lyscek comes back then obviously an American man would do at least silver probably right at 2012 worlds. Ladies is inching up because of imrpovement of Czisny. Nagasu needs to start delvering. Flatt doing what she did at 2009 worlds with Czisney at 2011 worlds in France next year would be great. Also Jeremy Abbott has won a GPF but he also has major consistency issues. The talent is there but nothing like Japan where Mao can win ladies one year and Miki the next. That's a deep field. The ability to have one person move down but another move up and win worlds.
 
I think that after the 2010 Olympics only the US ice dancers have had international success which can be described as major. Yes, Czisny won the 2011 GPF, but is that competition a major international competition? In my opinion only Olympics and Worlds are major international competitions.

There are many talented US skaters in men´s and ladies discipline, but the success has not been really impressive, but maybe that will change during the current season?

I have understood that Lysacek is participating only in GP this season?
 
The USFSA shot itself in the foot last season giving the Championship to Ryan Bradley and leaving its most successful international skater off the team. Admittedly, the most experienced guys had a disappointing Nationals, but the outcome at Worlds was not unexpected given their choices. I don’t see Evan’s return as any sort of 2nd place slam dunk either. If Chan, Takahashi and Kozuka skate close to their potential, Evan could be off the podium even with the quad.
 
For the singles skaters, I think the issue is that

1) The international field has gotten stronger. Gone forever are the days when medal contenders might consist of three Americans and maybe three non-Americans.

2) The domestic field has also gotten deeper, so that an individual skater with international medal potential will not necessarily stand out above the rest of the field and therefore will most likely trade or fight for opportunities to compete at Worlds with several other American skaters at a similar level, rather than being able to earn an assignment even with a mediocre performance at Nationals.

For Nagasu specifically, it didn't help that age limits prevented her from competing at Worlds the first time she placed high enough at Nationals, so she was unable to benefit from the opportunity that Kwan, Lipinski, and Hughes had of getting Worlds experience before also dealing with medal hopes.

I.e., the best Americans haven't necessarily gotten any worse than the best Americans of a decade or two or more ago. They just don't stand out as much. And for that reason they might not have as much confidence as their earlier counterparts, so in that sense, yes, they may not have quite as strong a presence on the ice.
 
The above post

Plus

The new scoring system. Gone are the days where one could simply "jump" oneself to the title. The so-called "whole package" is now required. Not to mention increased scrutiny on how jumps are executed.

Maybe with the young generation having competed entirely under NJS, we will rise again (same for Russia).
 
But the problem with the american skaters over the last 4 years or so has been that they aren't consistent jumpers. Mirai has everything else to be a champion and so does Alissa. But they are headcases and don't nail there jumps like the great american ladies of the past.
 
The above post

Plus

The new scoring system. Gone are the days where one could simply "jump" oneself to the title. The so-called "whole package" is now required. Not to mention increased scrutiny on how jumps are executed.

Maybe with the young generation having competed entirely under NJS, we will rise again (same for Russia).

US never pushed jumpers. Kwan over Lipinski and Hughes. Eldredge over Weiss and Goebel. Total package over jumpers was always US number one pirority. But even with jumps there was ur-ing problems a lot. People who could do the toughest jumps were always in the US considered lesser skaters to aritsitc ones.
 
gmyers, of course, the problem is those skaters often were lesser skaters.

gkelly nailed it, as usual. The corrolary to that, of course, is in dance, where we see the decline of the European powers (Russia, mainly) concurrent with the rise of the North Americans.
 
Interesting how the cycles come and go. Right now, I find the depth of "not quite ready for the big moment" MEN's skaters in the US quite impressive. And for this reason, am sure projecting WHO will be on the US world team come the end of the season is going to be a very tall task to guess correctly.

Agree with those who have cited Dance as actually the discipline where the US has been strongest and most impressive. Sad how dance is still treated like such a step-child of the other disciplines when it comes to television coverage in the US. The dancers are actually likely to be the biggest source of success on the international stage for at least the rest of this Olympic cycle in my opinion.
 
US never pushed jumpers. Kwan over Lipinski and Hughes. Eldredge over Weiss and Goebel. Total package over jumpers was always US number one pirority. But even with jumps there was ur-ing problems a lot. People who could do the toughest jumps were always in the US considered lesser skaters to aritsitc ones.

I'm not sure this was on purpose. Goebel, for example, was successful during his tenure--probably the most successful American male skater internationally of that time, if you consider the number of times he made the world or Olympic podium, and he also made the national podium a good number of times, winning once. As for the women, Tonya, the best jumper in American history probably, beat Kristi in 1991 nationally (and it was in Worlds, with international judges, that their positions were reversed). Tonya didn't do well in other years because she was inconsistent and did not always train well. Debi Thomas was both a splendid jumper and an artistic skater. I don't think anyone was a better jumper than she at the time.

Tara was a fine jumper in terms of rotations, but not particularly a high jumper, so why would she be placed ahead of Michelle at her best, who in those days was doing all the jumps plus becoming one of our greatest artistic skaters ever? Remember that Tara had a flutz and was called on it internationally in the 1998 season.

I don't know. Your point is a very interesting one, and I'm just kind of investigating it rather than arguing against you.

But one thing I do feel is that the skaters today are doing less well internationally NOT because they're either jumpers rather than artistic skaters or artistic skaters rather than jumpers. They're pure and simple not as strong as some of the world's other skaters. Miki, YuNa, and Mao are all splendid jumpers (each in a different way). YuNa and Mao are splendid artists, and Miki is working hard to improve in that area. Those three are miles above whatever America has been able to produce (except for Alissa in terms of spins). Mirai seems to reach that upper level sometimes, but then she clutches and throws it away. Rachel is a consistent jumper but nowhere near as polished as the Asians in overall quality.

As for our guys of today, I don't get a "wuzrobbed" feeling from any of them. Our good skaters are only good sometimes, and look who they're competing against: Daisuke Takahashi and the other Japanese guys, plus Patrick Chan. A lot of people grumbled about Evan Lysacek at the Olympics, but thank goodness for his hard work and hard-won consistency--he was our go-to guy for several years.

So I feel that we aren't on the podium right now in singles because we just aren't good enough compared to the rest of the world. Maybe some other time. But it's going to take a lot more work, talent, and luck than we seem to have right now.
 
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US never pushed jumpers. Kwan over Lipinski and Hughes. Eldredge over Weiss and Goebel. Total package over jumpers was always US number one pirority. But even with jumps there was ur-ing problems a lot. People who could do the toughest jumps were always in the US considered lesser skaters to aritsitc ones.

That's not true. It's ridiculous to say that the USFSA always placed Kwan ahead of Lipinski when Tara only skated seniors full time for 2 seasons - 1996/97 and 1997/98. Lipinski won everything she entered in 1996/97 defeating Kwan both at home and internationally and in 1998, Michelle skated her best performances ever at Nationals and Tara had problems, so it's hardly surprising that Kwan won.

As for Kwan over Hughes, that's hardly surprising since international judges placed Hughes ahead of Kwan exactly twice: once at Skate Canada in 2001 and again at the 2002 Olympics which was certainly Hughes best skate ever, and not Kwan's best performance.

Eldredge was a much better skater than Weiss or Goebel when they competed. Goebel had quads but very poor basic stroking and edge control, bad posture, weak spins and programs that consisted of stroking between the elements. Eldredge had one of the best 3A's in skating, excellent spins and strong basic skating, and good speed. And the USFSA did place Goebel over Eldredge in 2002.

Weiss never had the quality of jumps that Eldgredge had. He never landed a clean quad and his 3A was always an adventure, with that skid entry he used. When they competed head to head, Weiss was still an up and coming skater, and Eldredge was the much better experienced skater. I don't know why you included him in this list.
 
But one thing I do feel is that the skaters today are doing less well internationally NOT because they're either jumpers rather than artistic skaters or artistic skaters rather than jumpers. They're pure and simple not as strong as some of the world's other skaters. Miki, YuNa, and Mao are all splendid jumpers (each in a different way). YuNa and Mao are splendid artists, and Miki is working hard to improve in that area. Those three are miles above whatever America has been able to produce (except for Alissa in terms of spins). Mirai seems to reach that upper level sometimes, but then she clutches and throws it away. Rachel is a consistent jumper but nowhere near as polished as the Asians in overall quality.

As for our guys of today, I don't get a "wuzrobbed" feeling from any of them. Our good skaters are only good sometimes, and look who they're competing against: Daisuke Takahashi and the other Japanese guys, plus Patrick Chan. A lot of people grumbled about Evan Lysacek at the Olympics, but thank goodness for his hard work and hard-won consistency--he was our go-to guy for several years.

So I feel that we aren't on the podium right now in singles because we just aren't good enough compared to the rest of the world. Maybe some other time. But it's going to take a lot more work, talent, and luck than we seem to have right now.

I kind of agree with that, but only with the ladies. I think that a Jeremy Abbott in his Olympic season shape has the ability to put significant pressure on the international scene. In terms of skating skills, he is still right up there with Patrick Chan and Takahiko Kozuka (and definitely Daisuke and Nobunari). His footwork sequences and transitions at their highest caliber and technical difficulty are also very comparable to Chan's, IMO.

His recent boot problems are really what has stopped me from writing him off completely because I still think he has it in him. Of course, even with his boot problems solved there's still his issue with consistency... :think:
 
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