Lysacek out of Grand Prix; at odds with USFS

[Bluebonnet]

At least I think he'd regret the reason he gave for withdrawing.

 

[Tinymavy15]

At least I think he'd regret the reason he gave for withdrawing.

yes. Just withdraw and give no reason. let people speculate about injuries and then prove them wrong when you skate lights out at Nationals.

 

[Tonichelle]

yes. Just withdraw and give no reason. let people speculate about injuries and then prove them wrong when you skate lights out at Nationals.

Agreed. But Evan has always been okay with "withdrawing due to injury" and he's always kissed USFSA butt.. he did neither here which makes me think that the USFSA is being truthful that Evan took his toys and went home when he / his people didn't like whatever contractual stuff was needed.

 

[JEve3]

That's what seems odd to me. Evan has always been the poster child for USFSA, and it's served him well. Why would he want more money when skating is on the decline in the US? I'm not so sure USFSA has the extra money to give him. Plus it makes him look like he just skates for monetary reward. Pro skaters do that. And that's fine. But eligible skaters should be working thier programs to perfection now. For the competition. Hopefully they get some help with expenses, but monetary reward is not he overall objective.

Plus, this just makes him look bad. Why degrade your image?

 

[sorcerer]

Though Evan is still ranked 18th ISU as of today, he was assigned, before withdrawing, by being a "comeback" skater, not by being an "invited" skater or by any of the other criteria. This you can confirm by the clauses in the GP Announcement 2011-12.
Has he lost his "comeback" status now? As I read, he still hasn't "participated" yet after his absence, so he still hasn't used up this status.
Also, I read that a "comeback" skater must do 2 GPs, so Evan couldn't withdraw from just one GP, meaning doing TEB only wasn't allowed because of his "comeback" status.

BTW has he intentionally saved his "comeback" status for next season by withdrawing?
Though an unlikely reason for the withdrawal, if so, he won't be doing ISU competition this season.
Because if he participates in the coming 4CC/Worlds, he won't be a "comeback" skater anymore next year.

c) “Come-Back” Skaters/Couples: Skaters/Couples who were previously seeded (placed 1 to 6 at any previous ISU World Figure Skating Championships) and subsequently did not participate in one or more competitive seasons are allowed to re-enter the Grand Prix if they commit to participating in 2 Grand Prix events. A come-back under this clause is allowed only once for any skater. Subsequent to the come-back season, the skater will be considered only by his /her placement on the official lists (seeded or World Standing points, etc.). If the skater is no longer on the list, he/she will not be considered for a Grand Prix event. Such so called “come back skaters/couples” will not substitute any of the seeded skaters/couples, mentioned under a). “Come Back Skaters/Couples” must not fulfil the requirements of the minimum score.

 

[dorispulaski]

That's a good point.

 

[KKonas]

Unofficially I heard the dollar amount initially was $200K and then $100K. Lysacek switched agencies in the middle of negotiations from IMG to CAA and by that time the event was so close to happening that USFS only offerred him the prize money, no appearance fee. Phil Hersh has an article today that goes into what previous top US athletes earned during the 90s. It's in his usual Globetrotting blog. Hersh digs into how much $$$ some of the top skaters were paid by USFS.

 

[sorcerer]

... in his usual Globetrotting blog...

Quote:"The federation confirmed it pays neither prize money nor appearance money for the U.S. Championships."

Well that's good and very normal.
And as to ISU games, nothing else than prize money should be how it is.
To add, prize money wil not be given if the skater(s) do not give gala peformance, that's what I read in rules.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Unofficially I heard the dollar amount initially was $200K and then $100K. Lysacek switched agencies in the middle of negotiations from IMG to CAA and by that time the event was so close to happening that USFS only offerred him the prize money, no appearance fee. Phil Hersh has an article today that goes into what previous top US athletes earned during the 90s. It's in his usual Globetrotting blog. Hersh digs into how much $$$ some of the top skaters were paid by USFS.

By that time the USFSA could see they couldn't afford to give him anything. Empty seats don't pay.

 

[Mathman]

Quote:"The federation confirmed it pays neither prize money nor appearance money for the U.S. Championships."

Well that's good and very normal.

The USFSA is not trying to be either good or normal. They don't pay appearance fees any more because they do not have any money to do so.

...the business has changed so much that it would be hard for the U.S. federation to pay Lysacek anything near what it did Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Kimmie Meissner, Sasha Cohen, Timothy Goebel and Michael Weiss from 1997 through 2005.

Each of the skaters in the previous paragraph (other than Lysacek) made in excess of $100,000 from appearance fees (the totals also include prize money funneled through USFS) during one of those years, as the federation reported in its tax filings under the category of the top five independent contractors making $100,000 or more in a year.

Kwan, the most decorated U.S. figure skater in history, earned $6.3 million [from the USFSA] from 1997 through 2005 (best year: $899,000 on the 1998 tax filing).

Cohen made from $315,000 to $473,000 from 2002 through 2005; Weiss pulled in $505,000 in 2003, Hughes $518,000 in 2002, Goebel $353,000 in 2002, Lipinski $433,000 in 1997.

Part of this money was for appearances in cheesefests. Sometimes the sponsors paid the skaters to appear, filtering the money through USFA.

For the big earners, the bulk of the money was appearance fees to guarantee they skated on ABC shows like Skate America and the pro-ams U.S. Figure Skating once ran. Those fees came out of the TV revenues, which reached $12 million annually in the final eight years of ABC's contract with USFS.

Here is the whole article.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ispute-between-them-20111028,0,4970070.column

 

[Mathman]

And as to ISU games, nothing else than prize money should be how it is.

This is a position that I do not understand. Why is it admirable to compete for prize money but reprehensible to receive a participation fee? If figure skating were truly an amateur sport there would be no cash prize, only a trophy.[/QUOTE]

 

[Violet Bliss]

Prize money is merited by the performance on ice. It's about the sport and the competition, awarding the best athletes for their winning performances and compensating them for their efforts and expenses incurred for the sport.

Appearance fees are about business and star power off ice. It's also an inequality at competition. Some are valued more, much more, even before the competition.

 

[Mathman]

Well, it is certainly true that love of money is the root of all evil. On the other hand, the only thing worse than money is no money.

The USFSA is not staking out the moral high ground here. They are doing what they must in response to a decline in financial fortunes.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Back in the days when Michelle Kwan was making $900,000 a year everyone connected with the sport benefited.

 

[KKonas]

Avery Brundage, the 5th president of the IOC was famous (or infamous) for his opposition to professionalism in sports. There are numerous instances of his iron hand over this aspect of amateur sports. In figure skating the most well known action was when he contacted the Canadian Figure Skating Association when Barbara Ann Scott received a car as a gift after her win at 1947 Worlds, threatening to lose her amateur status if she did not give back the car. At the time Brundage was named, "The Most Hated American."

 

[Violet Bliss]

If finances allow, skating prize money should be greatly increased and also awarded to even the lower placements. Appearance fees benefit only a vey few stars in a profitable market. I'm not exactly sure how much, but in lucrative sports like golf and tennis, the winning prizes are huge. In team sports, the pros negotiate multi million dollars per year contracts. Unfortunately, skating is just not that popular and commercial and the superb athletes struggle financially for the love of the sport. I wish it were different because I find them more deserving than many high earning athletes.

Skate training costs are so high partly because of the individual attention the athletes require. In team sports, 2 or 3 coaches train the whole team and they share other personnel, wear mass produced uniforms and practice as a group on the same ice or fields. In skating, a skater needs a main coach plus various other professionals with very personal attention, they need substantial valuable ice space for training, and their competition costumes are individually designed and made, sometimes costing in the thousands of $, doubling for Pairs and Dance teams. It is indeed one of the costliest sports, outside of those with equine partners. It's a shame that skating athletes can't even earn enough in the sport itself to fully support their training.

 

[Jammers]

Avery Brundage was a anti-semite racist ******* to be nice about it.

 

[sorcerer]

Hello Mathman. You know very well that I already stated earning money is not at all immoral.
Like SkateFiguring says, it's about the equal ground of each competition once the skaters are in it.

I believe that in this matter, things are not "all or nothing".
My view of the reality is that measures are taken, as they should be, to save some essence of amateurism in this international sport, though the management as a whole must adapt to contemporary commercialism that support the existence of the sport. You can do it without completely destroying its universality of the sports spirit.

 

[ladybug]

The stands are empty. COP is very difficult for the average person to understand. NBC is not paying much to USFS for covering ice skating. Television coverage is at a minimum. How many people get Universal Sports. Comcast in my area doesn't have it on their line up. If you don't make money it is pretty hard to pay it out, in spite of what you might Want to do. I doubt that Michelle Kwan would be getting the big $$ if she were competing now unless she could fill the stands and get people interested again.

 

[gmyers]

COP does require more knowledge of jumps and their different point values and spin and step sequences are probably hard to level but jumps would seem to be the easiest. I find it so hard to believe that when skating was so popular and watched by millions more people no one learned anything! Maybe too much easy professional competitions where jumps didn't matter so much.

 

[sorcerer]

My country had this figure skating craze after the adoption of COP, so TVs and magazines explain the rules and the technical aspects rather often. Not only by the commentaters in actual games but in promotion/fluff programs as well.
Such technicalities are indeed sort of "enjoyed" here in general, but as I see, not so much the PCS.

So I'm not sure if it helps the popularity of figure skating to ditch COP ... well maybe the PCS should be overhauled.