Lysacek out of Grand Prix; at odds with USFS

[prettykeys]

^ But I heard that when Alissa Czisny won the 2010 GPF, it drew a record number of American viewers in quite a few years (and they're not known to be huge fans of the GPF, are they? ). I still think that the biggest contributor to the decline of interest by the American audience is a lack of consistent American female podium-makers. It may be true that this is further driven by the IJS being scapegoated by commentators or vocal troupes of fans in sour-grapes style. To be clear, I am not saying that all objections to any/all versions of the IJS is only sour-grapes, but I feel that some of it is, in that if there really were an outstanding American star, she would hush at least a few dissenters.

 

[Tonichelle]

I think, also, that skating is an elitest/rich sport... and right now we're all about the other 99% (see me rolling my eyes sky high)... people can better relate to a rags to riches football star than they can a poor little rich girl who can't get her jumps to work. (even if the skater is blue collar, skating just comes off as a sport for the rich, especially with the way fans talk).

 

[Violet Bliss]

But the glitz and elegance of figure skating can be escapist entertainment much like the Hollywood glamour in the '30s.

 

[jcoates]

The problem is that US is lack of such person. So sometimes they have to borrow from Canada.

We have Judy Blumberg, an ISU tech specialist and 3 time world bronze medalist. She's excellent at doing the same things Kurt does, calling elements in real time and explaining them to boot. Sadly, she's only ever been used sporadically on TV during the last 25 years. Paul Wylie was also pretty good, although he and Kurt and Button all screwed up on ESPN in 2008 when they miscalculated the quality of Buttle's performance vs Joubert's more difficult jumping passes. Many of the US skaters who've been trained in IJS have gone into coaching or other fields altogether rather than commentary (Dungjen, Sand, Krall, Goebel, etc.) , largely because those opportunites have been monopolized by Hamilton and previously Button. To my knowledge, Scott does no formal coaching. Sandra, though a Canadian, has worked almost exclusively on US TV as far as commentary goes for some time. She no longer choreographs eligible programs due to her issues with IJS. She acts as a consultant for skaters on non IJS issues like emoting, posture, choice of music. Whereas, the top Canadian commentators are involved in either coaching (Tracy, PJ) or choreography (Kurt). That may greatly impact their ability to accurately call skating under the current system.

 

[gkelly]

I think, also, that skating is an elitest/rich sport... and right now we're all about the other 99% (see me rolling my eyes sky high)... people can better relate to a rags to riches football star than they can a poor little rich girl who can't get her jumps to work. (even if the skater is blue collar, skating just comes off as a sport for the rich, especially with the way fans talk).

Yes, I think that is true.

Also, few viewers have ever tried figure skating themselves -- many have never even tried ice skating at all -- whereas most have at least shot some hoops or run the bases in gym class or on the playground.

Canadians are more likely to have been on the ice themselves in skates of some sort, so there's a different level of connection, proportional to the population.

 

[prettykeys]

Yes, I think that is true.

Also, few viewers have ever tried figure skating themselves -- many have never even tried ice skating at all -- whereas most have at least shot some hoops or run the bases in gym class or on the playground.

This is huge. It is harder to be more appreciative of something if you haven't tried it yourself, because some things look easier than they may actually be.

This goes both ways, as far as I can tell. "Figure skating is not a real sport" most likely comes from someone who has never tried it. On the other hand, if baseball statistics and batting averages aren't too impressive to you, well...how does your own batting average compare?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Commentators like Weir and Lapinski who are often too personal in their comments, especially when it's about skaters they actually competed against, may be entertaining but hardly professional or educational. Not sure about Lapinski, but Weir is definitely anti-COP.

The selection of commentators shows the producers' mindset.

eta. I don't think commentators have to be accurate in predicting placements, nor should they be expected to or be held to any such guessing, but pointing out the not so obvious, like very difficult moves or cheating of jumps, goes a long way to educate the viewers.

 

[museksk8r]

Yes, I think that is true.

Also, few viewers have ever tried figure skating themselves -- many have never even tried ice skating at all -- whereas most have at least shot some hoops or run the bases in gym class or on the playground.

Canadians are more likely to have been on the ice themselves in skates of some sort, so there's a different level of connection, proportional to the population.

I agree with you both, Tonichelle and gkelly. Excellent points! :yes:

 

[Bluebonnet]

Commentators like Weir and Lapinski who are often too personal in their comments, especially when it's about skaters they actually competed against, may be entertaining but hardly professional or educational. Not sure about Lapinski, but Weir is definitely anti-COP.

The selection of commentators shows the producers' mindset.

eta. I don't think commentators have to be accurate in predicting placements, nor should they be expected to or be held to any such guessing, but pointing out the not so obvious, like very difficult moves or cheating of jumps, goes a long way to educate the viewers.

I totally agree. They can say less or none on the possible outcome of a skating. Just pointout places to help viewers understand skating will be very helpful.

Well, I'm just wondering how did Lysacek manage to hide and nowhere to be found even in his own thread?

 

[pangtongfan]

The fields are just too weak and uninteresting now to draw viewers, that is why figure skating is dieing in popularity, along with the not really viewer friendly judging system.

Lets break down what we currently have and have had the last few years:

Men- Really weak field with Chan about 5 falls better than the 2nd best (whoever that is). All the old guard retired or washed up, hardly any promising new stars. American men really weak with the always underachieving Abbott, moderately talented up and comer Dornbush, overhyped Rippon, and fake comebacking Lysacek as their principal selling points. Before Chan's dominance began it was even worse, with a skater like Lysacek with no quads and average artistry becoming World and Olympic Champion.

Ladies- Weakest field in history by far, shocking only a year and half after the greatest ever Olympic womens competition ever. Last year Miki Ando winning Worlds with an average performance which wouldnt have won any Worlds since about 1982, and would have placed her only 5th (just as she was) at the Olympics last year. This year likely to see the World title go to a women who can land 4 or 5 triples with some level 3 elements and decent but not great PCS. American ladies hopes really in the hands of career journeywomen and headcase Czisny, who might well be the one to capatilize on the abysmal field to win Worlds gold or silver with only 4 or 5 triples (most she would likely ever land ratified) at Worlds this year. For the record I am hoping one of Koster or Czisny does win Worlds this year.

Dance- Again overall really weak field. Outstanding top 2 teams, and the rest are mediocre, about 5 falls behind the top 2 just as the men behind Chan are. Russian greatness has totally died in dance, the top Russian team of today would be about the #7 Russian team back in the 70s, 80s, 90s, or even early 2000s. Overall Europe has completely fallen off too. Stifling rules most affecting dance which was never about a series of elements like it is now, and holding back even the brilliant top 2 teams from showing all they can do.

Pairs- The only event with a somewhat decent field. Still the current top 2 look in a league of their own, and the field is filled with numerous outdated many years past their best veteran, and lacks up and comers as well.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I don't think men's field is weak at all. There are nearly a dozen interesting skaters in the world. If you say US men's field is really weak, I'd agree. It might not be strong enough till Nathan Chen grows up.

Assume Yu Na Kim is left, it does look weak for ladies.

In Dance, isn't this supposed to be the best era ever in North America? Still it can't prevent the decline.

Pairs was never strong discipline for US.

 

[gmyers]

We have Judy Blumberg, an ISU tech specialist and 3 time world bronze medalist. She's excellent at doing the same things Kurt does, calling elements in real time and explaining them to boot. Sadly, she's only ever been used sporadically on TV during the last 25 years. Paul Wylie was also pretty good, although he and Kurt and Button all screwed up on ESPN in 2008 when they miscalculated the quality of Buttle's performance vs Joubert's more difficult jumping passes. Many of the US skaters who've been trained in IJS have gone into coaching or other fields altogether rather than commentary (Dungjen, Sand, Krall, Goebel, etc.) , largely because those opportunites have been monopolized by Hamilton and previously Button. To my knowledge, Scott does no formal coaching. Sandra, though a Canadian, has worked almost exclusively on US TV as far as commentary goes for some time. She no longer choreographs eligible programs due to her issues with IJS. She acts as a consultant for skaters on non IJS issues like emoting, posture, choice of music. Whereas, the top Canadian commentators are involved in either coaching (Tracy, PJ) or choreography (Kurt). That may greatly impact their ability to accurately call skating under the current system.

It would be good if more of the commentators knew more about it from an experience standpoint. In 2008 the commentators did also underestimate the value of triple jumps againts quads. Wylie was doing agiain in 2009. The instances of people thinking quads mattered in winning an event was so overdone.

 

[gkelly]

And the ISU has changed the value of quads (in response to lobbying from coaches and skaters who do them, as I understand) several times in the last few years. So commentators working with last year's rules can be especially off in their estimates.

When we start getting commentators who did most of their competing under IJS, we'll get a different perspective.

Speaking of which, maybe the guy whose name is in this thread title will be ready to try some commentary in a few years.

 

[Kitt]

When we start getting commentators who did most of their competing under IJS, we'll get a different perspective.

Speaking of which, maybe the guy whose name is in this thread title will be ready to try some commentary in a few years.

Doubtful; as I recall Evan on DWTS, he was wooden in his comments, almost inanimate. I just don't think he is sharp enough!

 

[CARA]

And the ISU has changed the value of quads (in response to lobbying from coaches and skaters who do them, as I understand) several times in the last few years. So commentators working with last year's rules can be especially off in their estimates.

When we start getting commentators who did most of their competing under IJS, we'll get a different perspective.

Speaking of which, maybe the guy whose name is in this thread title will be ready to try some commentary in a few years.

Wooden, you say, Kitt. Maybe he could learn. After all, I hear "they pay decent money" for commentating.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Speaking of which, maybe the guy whose name is in this thread title will be ready to try some commentary in a few years.

Ah, I hope not. His flat tones and unexpressive, unenthusiastic voice is not good for commentary.

 

[Violet Bliss]

What commentators like Kurt and Tracy do is also showing viewers the perspectives of the experts including the judges. Whatever they notice and comment on leaves an impression that it is important and likely matters in the scoring. When commentators watch and comment much like the fans do, they reinforce the superficial impressions while ignoring the technical aspects of skating which of course are big factors in the scoring. Viewers don't need someone to point out the pretty or the dramatic including the falls. Commentators should show different eyes in looking at the performances.

 

[Kitt]

He'd probably spend all his time justifying his OGM!

 

[Bluebonnet]

He'd probably spend all his time justifying his OGM!

 

[CARA]

He'd probably spend all his time justifying his OGM!

I see you think really highly of Evan.