International Challenge Cup - The Hague, Mar 8-11

[Mao88]

Videos - Mens Short Program (Updated)

1. Florent AMODIO (FRA) and 2nd Copy
2. Brian JOUBERT (FRA) and 2nd Copy)
3. Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) and 2nd Copy
4. Samuel CONTESTI (ITA)
5. Jorik HENDRICKX (BEL)
6. Ivan BARIEV (RUS) and 2nd Copy
7. Peter LIEBERS (GER)
8. Laurent ALVAREZ (SUI)
10. Kim LUCINE (MON)
11. Paul FENTZ (GER)
12. Stéphane WALKER (SUI)
13. Julian LAGUS (FIN)
14. David RICHARDSON (GBR)
15. Taras RAJEC (SVK)
16. Viktor ZUBIK (FIN)

 

[Mao88]

Videos - Ladies Short Program

1. Carolina KOSTNER (ITA)
2. Alissa CZISNY (USA)
3. Valentina MARCHEI (ITA)
4. Myriam LEUENBERGER (SUI)
5. Lena MARROCCO (FRA)
6. Kerstin FRANK (AUT)
7. Haruna SUZUKI (JPN)
8. Viktoria HELGESSON (SWE)
10. Fleur MAXWELL (LUX)
11. Romy BÜHLER (SUI)
12. Cecillia TÖRN (FIN)
13. Anne Line GJERSEM (NOR)
14. Henriikka HIETANIEMI (FIN)
15. Rosaliina KUPARINEN (FIN)
16. Belinda SCHÖNBERGER (AUT)
17. Kana MURAMOTO (JPN)
18. Isabel DRESCHER (GER)
19. Eva LIM (NED)
20. Jennifer URBAN (GER)
21. Sandy HOFFMANN (GER)
22. Michelle COUWENBERG (NED)
23. Dasa GRM (SLO)
24. Ami PAREKH (IND)

 

[gkelly]

The distinction about "medallists" in the 1980's is a false one, since the reasons the free skate experts were not getting medals was their school figures, not their lack of jumps:

And "maturity" in their freeskating, whatever that meant to the judges at the time. For the most part the younger girls who could do more jumps weren't winning senior freeskates either.

As to jumps in the 1980's, Midori Ito, Kristi Yamaguchi & Tonya Harding were often landing more content than Kostner does today, as well as Liz Manley. Ito had all her triples, landing her first 3A in 1988, Harding had all the triples less the axel, and Kristi was lacking the axel, and never could do a decent 3S.

Still, you're talking about exceptions, not what was the norm for the 1980s. Manley didn't have a triple loop or a 3-3 combo, so I don't think we can say she was doing "more" jump content than Kostner is doing now. Same for Bortz as far as I can tell.

Ito's 1988 LP at the Olympics is still one of the finest ladies' technical skates ever.

Yes, and it was a complete exception to what was typical 1980s jump content. It makes more sense to say that Ito was doing 1990s or 2000s jump content than that someone who is doing more than 95% of what 1980s women were doing has "1980s jump content."

 

[bellafurr]

Liz Manley did have a triple loop. Check 88 Olympics

 

[loveskating]

Karyn Cadavy had a gorgeous triple loop!

 

[Mao88]

Karyn Cadavy had a gorgeous triple loop!

You got the 'C' and the 'K' the wrong way around. You were probably typing too fast (I sometimes do the same thing)!

Here's the triple loop in all its glory:-

Caryn Kadavy - 1993 Pro-Am Figure Skating Challenge

Caryn Kadavy - 1986 U.S. Nationals

Caryn Kadavy - 1987 Worlds

I've always thought it was a real pity she never stayed on after the 1987/88 season. I always rated her much higher than Jill Trenary and she could have easily won the World title during the 2 years that compulsories remained in place (i.e. with Midori Ito being held back by the school figures).

Caryn was one of the most graceful and artistic skaters I've ever seen. She stood 6th after the SP at the 1988 Olympics, and then caught the flu and had to withdraw. Must have been absolutely heartbreaking for her.

 

[Tanja90]

Pathetic! I can't stand Carolina for her being overscored repeatedly with a novice level jump layout. She has been quite 'consistent' and 'successful' for the past 2 years by massively scaling down the jump difficulty. It's beyond pathetic.

No it's not pathetic! Top three ladies were way overscored at this event! Valentina's got almost 58 points with a clean skate when she never reached 55 AFAIR even with clean skates...Alyssa's got almost 60 points without a required jump element and Carolina did 3t2t instead of 3t3t and still got her second season best...but the result was fair...carolina had the third technical score but her components held her up (rightly so since she skated clean and has much more quality than anyone else in that competition)
Seeing the video I think she aborted the 2nd toe because of the size of the rink..she's so fast and maybe she thought it wasn't big enough...
She doesn't have a novice jump layout at all...she has all triples but the lutz (few skaters can say they have all consistent jump...so I canno't understand why we have to complain always about her) and has 3t3t..not the most difficult 3-3 but its value is higher than a 3lz2t...Plus she has maturity, quality in her skating, gorgeous program which help a lot...Honestly between a jumping machine without anything else and a mature woman skating even with less jump content I prefer the later one...That's senior ladies!

 

[centerpt1]

Top three ladies were way overscored at this event! Valentina's got almost 58 points with a clean skate when she never reached 55 AFAIR even with clean skates

I thought Valentina looked much improved here, though it's hard to tell on a video. She needs better choreography, but she skated what she had very well.

 

[cjuarez]

Denise Biellmann was also landing a clean triple lutz in 1981 as well as nice triple toe and salchow, and Carolina has won not 2 but 3 world medals (2005, 2008 and 2011).

 

[Tanja90]

I thought Valentina looked much improved here, though it's hard to tell on a video. She needs better choreography, but she skated what she had very well.

I know...I have to say, I'm not a fan of her programs this year...but she skated well her short in a few competition including Europeans if I'm not wrong but she never reached that score, not even close..that's way I am saying that judges were quite generous yesterday! not only with carolina...

 

[centerpt1]

judges were quite generous yesterday

Agree- but the placement order seems correct

 

[demarinis5]

No, whining about it on a skating forum is pathetic. Kostner started 2010-11 injured and scaled down her jump content because she wasn't allowed to train 3F and 3Lz. She did eventually bring back the flip, but the lutz remains an issue. That's one jump. How many ladies are doing all the jumps and doing them right? How many ladies are as strong across the board as Carolina is? It used to be that people complained that Kostner was winning with messy skates. Now that she's winning with clean but simpler skates people are still complaining. Are the other ladies skating well enough that her results should be questioned? No, they aren't. Go read gkelly's post; that's a very good explanation of Kostner's scores.

Let's see if the juniors so many seem excited about can have anywhere near the career Kostner has had.

And I must say, the most mystifying scoring from yesterday is Contesti's PCS. He has a very limited range as a performer and nowhere near the skating skills Kostner does, yet he got the third highest men's PCS - higher than Joubert and almost as good as Amodio's! Where the judges even paying attention?

^Thank you BC and great post gkelly!

 

[Violet Bliss]

Men's FS order and results

Group 2 is warming up.

 

[snowflake]

Many skaters trying difficult things before worlds. What a great event to attend!

Brian, 2 quads in short, wow. He WANTS a medal at Nice :thumbsup:

It just doesn't look right when a skater falls on two of his three jumping passes and still scores that high. That's the kind of performance where the commentators say, "not the skate he was hoping for."

Agree, but when the rules are like they are I'm glad Jeremy benefits from them as well

Sorry for Viktoria falling on her first 3toe trying to do a 3/3. Anyone knows why she got zero points on her last spin?

As for Fleur Maxwell it's like she has competed at every competition this season; except for 4CC At Europeans she was just out of Free Skate. Think this is her best SP in a long time, 45.14. She is also listed for worlds.

GO Jeremy… Viktoria… Fleur and everybody

 

[demarinis5]

Unofficial top five-Men


Joubert 227.28
Abbott 223.78
Contesti 221.97
Hendrickx 213.39
Lieber 209.52

 

[Buttercup]

^ It's official, and protocols are up. It's Joubert's first international win in more than two years; he'd medalled several times, but hadn't won anything since 2009 NHK. Obviously this is not a major competition, but I guess he achieved his goals for the event. Has he been working on his flip? There was no edge call this time.

I really hope Jeremy's health is okay and that Florent's injury won't prove too serious...

I still maintain Contesti's PCS are ludicrous.

 

[sky_fly20]

I'm late
how did Amodio got injured ?
Amodio's SP looked fine without injury

 

[snowflake]

Jeremy best PCS score(nearly ten more than Joubert) and eigth best TECS :think:

What's about jeremy's health?

Brian Didn't I recently read something like he's done

 

[sky_fly20]

^

yes, I am surprised Joubert won
because he seems to be heading to the Fumie Suguri route.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Both Joubert's and Abbott's scores are not great if they wish to contend for top 5 at Worlds. Abbott's jumps are problematic and his TES is really low whereas Joubert's PCS is 10 points behind Abbott's. Contesti looks relatively good lagging Abbott by 1 point in the LP.

Jeremy can do a lot better than this and I hope he hasn't peaked at the Nationals, again. Even if he did, he must improve on his jumps at Worlds.