People got upset with Rachael camp because she skated with injury and did not let USFS know, she should have withdrawn and let alternate go to Worlds. Alissa got 22nd because of something else, she did not declare any injury, people assumed that she did not do well because of her mental game, etc.... It could be the same scenario as Rachael but her camp did not disclose any injury....I guess USFS should ASK lots of questions,...what went wrong...and..how could it be this bad...
The state of U.S. Figure Skating
- Thread starter Mrs. P
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People got upset with Rachael camp because she skated with injury and did not let USFS know, she should have withdrawn and let alternate go to Worlds. Alissa got 22nd because of something else, she did not declare any injury, people assumed that she did not do well because of her mental game, etc.... It could be the same scenario as Rachael but her camp did not disclose any injury....I guess USFS should ASK lots of questions,...what went wrong...and..how could it be this bad...
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- Jan 15, 2010
But people forget that the whole thing (Rachael's situation) really blew up about a month or two after Worlds.
It's only been like, a day.
Either way, I feel bad for both of them.
hwell:
Whoa. My argument for KEEPING Zhang off the world team??
Or my argument that if she did go, she wouldn't have been the shoo-in for 3 spots like some seem to think she would have been? <-- hint: this is my actual point
Suppose Zhang went to worlds and placed 10th to Wagner's 4th. Sure top 10 would be a good result (IMHO) for her, but we'd still have two spots. And this thread would have been created and we'd be discussing this topic anyway, but from a different angle perhaps. Then again, Zhang may have done really well and placed 5th or whatever and we'd have our 3 spots. (hint: there's no way to know how she would have done!)
But prior to challenge cup, Czisny could have easily done top 10 as well and we'd have our three spots, and we wouldn't have this thread. Remember me saying that Zhang should have been made first alternate after 4CC? If that happened, and Czisny went to Challenge Cup, bombed, and USFS did what they were supposed to do as a federation (check her readiness and pull her out if she wasn't ready), then 1st alternate would have gone. However, USFS made Zhang the 2nd alternate after Zawadzki, who was 1st, based on Nationals results. So Zawadzki would have been the one to replace Czisny...and with all due respect to Zawadzki...not sure I see a significantly better result with her- certainly not top 10 (then again, you never know).
You know, there are just too many unknowns here...X-Factor galore. Instead of bemoaning that Zhang should have gone, etc., we should look to the future and evaluate what USFS needs to do differently to ensure this never happens again. I really don't want Czisny on yet another world team...because while several US ladies share the blame for our predicament, Czisny is the only one to have failed to deliver on MULTIPLE occasions. If USFS gets serious, she's done with Worlds...if she gets 2nd at Nationals next year, skip her and send #3 instead. I'm serious...this is it.
Czisny was a complete disaster at Worlds and negated anything Wagner did (even a win wouldn't have been sufficient) to help.
[As much as I love MK, people tend to forget that Sasha Cohen delivered most of the time as well]
Sorry, I'm not sure how to do the quote thing, but to the point, you're kidding right? In terms of not skating 2 clean programs, Sasha was one of the most egregious offenders (for a world class skater) I've ever seen. Did she ever do it? I truly can't remember that she did. She could have won a ton of Worlds and at least 1 if not 2 Oly titles if she wasn't always making critical technical errors in either the short or the long.
Sorry, I'm not sure how to do the quote thing, but to the point, you're kidding right? In terms of not skating 2 clean programs, Sasha was one of the most egregious offenders (for a world class skater) I've ever seen. Did she ever do it? I truly can't remember that she did. She could have won a ton of Worlds and at least 1 if not 2 Oly titles if she wasn't always making critical technical errors in either the short or the long.
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- Jan 23, 2009
Are we going to take Yuka & Jason's word on Alissa's injury situation? Or is there going to be an investigation? Something is fishy. I don't trust those two.
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- Jan 15, 2010
Just click "reply with quote".
Of course she was an egregious offender. My meaning for "delivered" was "got a medal" (not necessarily the gold medal). Did you not read the rest of my post?
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- Jan 15, 2010
According to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Qualifying
Yes, because despite Alissa finishing 22nd, Ashley placed in the Top 10. (Same principle applied when Yuna was on the podium for South Korea).
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- Jun 21, 2003
It seems to me that people on his very thread are plenty angry.
For me personally, I didn't blame Rachael then and I don't blame Alissa now. You do your best. Sometimes your best is pretty awful. It's not like Alissa deliberately fell just to tick people off.
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- Jan 23, 2012
Yes, the the total placements have to be equal or less than 28 when two skaters from a nation are selected compete in a discipline. The USAFA should be thankful that Ashley did as well she did to meet the requirements. She really pulled herself up from 8th place. Or may be they should be happy Alissa did not bomb any worse than she did and make Ashley's job more difficult.
The top ten placement requirement only applies if only one skater from a nation competes in a discipline. This is why Javier Fernandez's top ten finish back in 2011 was so remarkable. It gave Spain two spots in the men's event for this year.
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- Jan 23, 2009
Who cares about the third spot. The world's berth should go to the most deserving skater, the one who can perform best, not one who can meet some arbitrary goal that you set. If Zhang can score better than Czisny, Zhang goes. Period.
Secondly, if Zhang did get 10th place, we wouldn't be harping on her. No one harped on Mirai for screwing up 2010 World's because she was the most deserving athlete to send. Zhang was the deserving athlete to send to 2012 Worlds, and if she could manage 10th, that would also be fine.
Haha.
so you also believe she doesn't have any responsibility to anyone else? any responsibility to follow rules? cuz she's special, right?
yes, she's special, but no more than any other u.s. lady is, and i don't think it would set a good precedent if there isn't at least an inquiry. but whatever. i am sure the investigation (if it occurs) will simply reveal that she's even more special than previously thought, and rules don't apply to her to the same extent it would to someone like rachael flatt. we already know under-rotation calls and PCS don't, so why not some niggling rule, too?
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Not to change topics, but for real?? I only recall ONE world title that was within reach for Cohen- and that was 2006. With all due respect to Meissner, she shouldn't have been anywhere near title contention if the favorites skated at least competently.
In 2004- yes, Cohen was leading after the short, but no one was beating Arakawa in the FS. Yes, Cohen messed up but I don't think she would have won even if she was clean. The program had almost no life to it. (This was during 6.0 days, remember)
In 2005- no one was beating Slutskaya on home ice.
As for Torino, yes, I concede that that OGM was within reach for her and she let it slip away. However, there's no knowing if Arakawa would have done a 3/3 or blew the roof off the arena if Cohen laid it down. Arakawa knew Cohen left the door wide open so she could afford to be more conservative.
___________
MM- yes, of course Czisny didn't DELIBERATELY screw up, but she still needs to be held accountable. I don't understand the tendency of some fans to coddle her and/or treat her like a baby.
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Perhaps, but should Zhang place 3rd at Nationals next year...
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- Jan 23, 2009
Nationals is a pre-judged event anyway.
it's not fine if they take another's skater's hopes and dreams with them. whatever my situation, i doubt the people at my work will tolerate me screwing up in a way that affects their aspirations. wasn't it czisny's own words, 'for us skaters, skating is our jobs'--she used those words to insist that worlds be held, because other people were still going about their jobs, and she wanted to go about hers even in the aftermath of the disaster in japan, if i recall. it is a privilege to appear at worlds, and it has impact on other people's ability to appear at worlds. she cared enough to protect _her_ opportunity to skate at worlds last year.
if all of those things are just trivalities when czisny is the one that squanders them, then the usfsa needs to offer rachael flatt a FORMAL apology, a check for whatever amount they fined her, and an explanation posted on ice network for why her PCS for this year's nationals was about 10 below what she would typically score in previous years for the same performance.
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- Jan 23, 2009
Oh, but you're wrong. Making the world team is a privilege doled out whimsically by the USFSA.
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