The state of U.S. Figure Skating

[Violet Bliss]

In this autopsy thread, we work with the dead body we have. Who knows how dead or alive a substitute would have been? Someone else might have came in 9th or 13th and be crucified without the 22nd place finish to make her look relatively good and a better selected delegate.

Woulda, coulda, and shoulda don't do any good. It's about how to go forward, considering not just the past but also the future. Luckily, it's not my job.

 

[Dragonlady]

But I don't agree that making the world team is a privilege doled out whimsically by the USFSA. I think it is something that the skater earns in open competition.

I don't think that the Worlds team spots should be given out whimsically either, but I also don't think that Nationals should be the ONLY competition which determines spots on the team. It forces skaters to peak at Nationals, in order to ensure a place on the team instead which is why so many Americans have their BEST performances at home and not at Worlds. The season logically should peak at Worlds. Evan Lysachek won the OGM after losing Nationals to Jeremy Abbott. His season peaked in Vancouver.

The Japanese team awards a spot on the Worlds team to skaters medalling at the GPF, as well as their Nationals Champions. That's not whimsical and it's criteria that skaters can understand. This year Canada had a skate-off at 4CC for the our spot in the Ladies. Again, criteria that the athletes can understand.

I am appalled that people blame Alissa here. The USFSA should NEVER has sent her and Jeremy to the Challenge Cup two weeks before Worlds. Skaters lose two weeks in training going to a competition, the week of the event spent travelling and only being allowed to skate at official practices for 30 minutes a day, and the week after to jetlag. There's also a decompression period after a comp. Czzisny and Abbott barely had time to recover from jet lag before they had to turn around and fly again.

For whatever reason, Alissa had a bad skate. She rightfully earned her spot at Worlds and the USFSA, by its own rules, had no right to take it away from her. So stop acting like she murders kittens. And stop blaming Alissa. She didn't set out to skate badly.

 

[sweetskates1]

1. Davis/White were ROBBED! I have given up really, it is so blatantly obvious and so dishearteningly likely to happen every single time until they retire.
2. Jeremy Abbott did not implode during the FS, landed a clean quad, and deserved better PCS marks.
3. We have a great weapon in Ms. Wagner. Zhang, Gold, Nagasu (assuming she still wants to acquire gold medals and prove us all wrong!) are still waiting on the sidelines. I believe in the American skaters' beauty, power and artistry. Alissa has never been a competitor or a good jumper. She is and will always be a beautiful icellerina. The quintessential icellerina. Watching her fall made me angry, teary-eyed, disappointed, and disheartened yet out of all the ladies there her soft beautiful grace still stood out. I wish she had done well, but I have maintained and still believe it is time for her to retire.
4. American pairs are on the rise.

Objectivity will never accompany this sport, ever. I want the USFSA to get better at playing the game and increase our chance at medalling by choosing the right people. If they feel the need to politicize, great do it, but be ruthless and back up the real talent. Zawadski will be one of our great aces in the next few seasons.. politicize hard in her behalf... she is worth it.

 

[skfan]

I don't think that the Worlds team spots should be given out whimsically either, but I also don't think that Nationals should be the ONLY competition which determines spots on the team. It forces skaters to peak at Nationals, in order to ensure a place on the team instead which is why so many Americans have their BEST performances at home and not at Worlds. The season logically should peak at Worlds. Evan Lysachek won the OGM after losing Nationals to Jeremy Abbott. His season peaked in Vancouver.

The Japanese team awards a spot on the Worlds team to skaters medalling at the GPF, as well as their Nationals Champions. That's not whimsical and it's criteria that skaters can understand. This year Canada had a skate-off at 4CC for the our spot in the Ladies. Again, criteria that the athletes can understand.

I am appalled that people blame Alissa here. The USFSA should NEVER has sent her and Jeremy to the Challenge Cup two weeks before Worlds. Skaters lose two weeks in training going to a competition, the week of the event spent travelling and only being allowed to skate at official practices for 30 minutes a day, and the week after to jetlag. There's also a decompression period after a comp. Czzisny and Abbott barely had time to recover from jet lag before they had to turn around and fly again.

For whatever reason, Alissa had a bad skate. She rightfully earned her spot at Worlds and the USFSA, by its own rules, had no right to take it away from her. So stop acting like she murders kittens. And stop blaming Alissa. She didn't set out to skate badly.

she didn't rightfully earn the right at nationals. and even if she did, last year's tibia-gate made clear that could be taken away if there are changes in circumstances.

nobody held a gun to her head, or her coaches' head, to make them go to the hague.

she deserves no blame at all? because she didn't intend to tank and was terribly upset, that should be enough for everybody?

thanks for confirming my impressions that some czisny fans have no limits to their delusions.

ETA
not directed at you, because i wouldn't expect you to understand, but if tim tebows fumbles the ball in the 4th quarter and the other team grabs it and scores a touchdown and wins, and he cries as he walks off the field, is that enough for all the jets fans? he didn't MEAN to fumble. he CRIED! can't you see how upset he is? how dare you pile on. what kind of animal are you.

to czisny's fans like the poster who says he's a professor of women's studies, is czisny an athlete who sweats, exerts herself, suffer pains, tries to achieve greater speed, greater heights on her jumps, is she worthy of a nike commercial, or is she a pampered princess who cannot be asked the usual questions asked of any athlete who performs below what is par for them? is it not sexist to insist she needs coddling, that no one should ever ask her a tough question that might make her cry?

 

[RemyRose]

I am appalled that people blame Alissa here. The USFSA should NEVER has sent her and Jeremy to the Challenge Cup two weeks before Worlds. Skaters lose two weeks in training going to a competition, the week of the event spent travelling and only being allowed to skate at official practices for 30 minutes a day, and the week after to jetlag. There's also a decompression period after a comp. Czzisny and Abbott barely had time to recover from jet lag before they had to turn around and fly again.

USFS isn't to blame for this disaster outing. Alissa and her team is. They wanted her to compete at 4CC and when USFS didn't select her, in order to give her more training time, her team insisted that USFS send her and Abbott to the Challenge Cup. Both Alissa and Jeremy are two grown consenting adults. If they didn't want to go, they could have said no. But instead, they used the opportunity to test out new jump layouts, which is their prerogative. Alissa even said that it wouldn't have any affect on her training time since they were only flying to Europe. I wish people will stop making excuses for grown a*s adults when it is THEY who need to start taking responsibility for their own actions. Stop coddling them.

 

[sweetskates1]

I feel that Alyssa has beautiful qualities that Rachael Flatt NEVER had. I am not defending Alyssa but I feel she failed miserably due to her lack of mental toughness. I do not think this disaster is the result of injury. Alyssa is not a good jumper, period. Alyssa needs to retire. She imploded, this is what she does, and it should not have come as a surprise. At this point, we are all so jaded that nothing comes a surprise and no one was to dream/hope about any new ice princesses but we will continue to root for the USA.

Rachael is just so unappealing and her skating so banal that it angered me greatly when she went to worlds even before the injury debacle. The reason that she was so criticized is that 1) she has never had a great following 2) some did not believe she deserved a spot in the first place 3) Mirai is adored by too many and she was next in line.

 

[RemyRose]

I feel that Alyssa has beautiful qualities that Rachael Flatt NEVER had. I am not defending Alyssa but I feel she failed miserably due to her lack of mental toughness. I do not think this disaster is the result of injury. Alyssa is not a good jumper, period. Alyssa needs to retire. She imploded, this is what she does, and it should not have come as a surprise. At this point, we are all so jaded that nothing comes a surprise and no one was to dream/hope about any new ice princesses but we will continue to root for the USA.

Rachael is just so unappealing and her skating so banal that it angered me greatly when she went to worlds even before the injury debacle. The reason that she was so criticized is that 1) she has never had a great following 2) some did not believe she deserved a spot in the first place 3) Mirai is adored by too many and she was next in line.

 

[sweetskates1]

Sorry, it is just my opinion...

 

[Mrs. P]

I feel that Alyssa has beautiful qualities that Rachael Flatt NEVER had. I am not defending Alyssa but I feel she failed miserably due to her lack of mental toughness. I do not think this disaster is the result of injury. Alyssa is not a good jumper, period. Alyssa needs to retire. She imploded, this is what she does, and it should not have come as a surprise. At this point, we are all so jaded that nothing comes a surprise and no one was to dream/hope about any new ice princesses but we will continue to root for the USA.

Rachael is just so unappealing and her skating so banal that it angered me greatly when she went to worlds even before the injury debacle. The reason that she was so criticized is that 1) she has never had a great following 2) some did not believe she deserved a spot in the first place 3) Mirai is adored by too many and she was next in line.

Luckily for Rachael, she is more liked and admired outside of these figure skating boards. (Judging from the awesome crowd of her Stanford classmates who cheered for her, I would think so).

She may not have the inane talent of Mirai or the "beauty" (as you say) of Alissa, but there's a reason she has managed to be on the Worlds team for three straight years and for me it's that competitive spirit. She commits herself 100 percent to every competition and every skate and fights for every jump. And that's why DESPITE the injury, we did not see a meltdown of the same epic proportions.

And seriously, Rachael's skating ANGERS you? Gosh...if that's what you get angry about, you sure live a good life.

ETA: Number of years on World team was wrong...(she did junior worlds in '08).

 

[FlattFan]

luckily for rachael, she is more liked and admired outside of these figure skating boards. (judging from the awesome crowd of her stanford classmates who cheered for her, i would think so).

She may not have the inane talent of mirai or the "beauty" (as you say) of alissa, but there's a reason she has managed to be on the worlds team for four straight years and for me it's that competitive spirit. She commits herself 100 percent to every competition and every skate and fights for every jump. And that's why despite the injury, we did not see a meltdown of the same epic proportions.

And seriously, rachael's skating angers you? Gosh...if that's what you get angry about, you sure live a good life.

lol.

 

[pangtongfan]

the point is, if czisny is completely in the right, then so was flatt. and all the punishment they doled out ought to be taken back. i never said anything about whether i agreed with her PCS pre or post tibia-gate.

and i am against giving any skater, ever, the benefit of the doubt. judge what is on the ice. i don't care if it is the holy patrick chan himself. if you're injured, apply for a bye and prepare to skate at test-skate. otherwise, no gimmes for anybody, not even wagner, the brightest light in US ladies in half a decade.

Czisny though is NOT completely in the right. Hardly anyone is saying that. So I dont know what you are getting at. She was in fact totally in the wrong, just as Flatt was late year, and next year I predict Flatt-like dumpage by the USFSA and come Nationals. So really it will be nothing but a rewriting of the Flatt script, despite that Czisny has/once had far more potential as a skater than Flatt ever did.

 

[Ina Bauer]

I think the USFSA should make it a requirement for the single skaters to do 1 or 2 summer competitions. I think everyone needs to compete more. Remember when they use to have the Olympic festival. We saw a lot of stars come out of that competition. They should either compete at the competitions we have or come up with some new ones. These single skaters just look scared to compete. They all need more competition. There is just no fight out on the ice, no competitive edge, nothing but fear.

 

[skfan]

I think the USFSA should make it a requirement for the single skaters to do 1 or 2 summer competitions. I think everyone needs to compete more. Remember when they use to have the Olympic festival. We saw a lot of stars come out of that competition. They should either compete at the competitions we have or come up with some new ones. These single skaters just look scared to compete. They all need more competition. There is just no fight out on the ice, no competitive edge, nothing but fear.

they need to train with ashley wagner more often, LOL. she'll set them on fire with her competitive drive.

seriously, if they start monitoring summer competitions more in order to more successfully dole out JGP's, perhaps what you're talking about will happen even without 'requirements.'

 

[mhu714]

I feel that Alyssa has beautiful qualities that Rachael Flatt NEVER had. I am not defending Alyssa but I feel she failed miserably due to her lack of mental toughness. I do not think this disaster is the result of injury. Alyssa is not a good jumper, period. Alyssa needs to retire. She imploded, this is what she does, and it should not have come as a surprise. At this point, we are all so jaded that nothing comes a surprise and no one was to dream/hope about any new ice princesses but we will continue to root for the USA.

Rachael is just so unappealing and her skating so banal that it angered me greatly when she went to worlds even before the injury debacle. The reason that she was so criticized is that 1) she has never had a great following 2) some did not believe she deserved a spot in the first place 3) Mirai is adored by too many and she was next in line.

Rachel was good enough to finish 5th at worlds when she was 16 or 17 (I'm sure someone here will know). I disagree with those who say her PCS were inflated. To be honest, on those relatively few occasions when Alissa was clean I thought her PCS were fine too. Rachel got hurt, and is apparently more concerned w/a college education than remaining in tip top skating shape. to that I say good for her. Alissa has always battled nerves and always will. She remonds me a little of Angela Nikodinov another beautiful skater whose nerves usually got to her. History is replete with women like this, but we always also had at least one or 2 women in the US who had nerves of steel and competed for gold at all the top comps. Those days seem to be gone. I have some hopes for Ashley who I love watching but the jury's still out on her. Nagasu reminds me of Sasha in many ways. I liked Zawadski last year but she severely regressed this season for who knows what reason. I'd love to see her get it together. I haven't seen Gracie Gold skate--perhaps she'll be the one to assume the mantle of THAT Americn contender.

 

[R.D.]

is czisny an athlete who sweats, exerts herself, suffer pains, tries to achieve greater speed, greater heights on her jumps, is she worthy of a nike commercial, or is she a pampered princess who cannot be asked the usual questions asked of any athlete who performs below what is par for them? is it not sexist to insist she needs coddling, that no one should ever ask her a tough question that might make her cry?

EXACTLY.

I just don't get the need to coddle her- not after an epic failure like this. We're talking about someone who found the strength to pick herself up after the disappointment that was the Olympics, change her environment, re-invent herself temporarily, and fight her way back to the top in the US. She's not this delicate flower. She can take it, guys. This was not a show performance- this is a world-class competition with berths on the line for next year. There were expectations for her and she fell WAY short of them. She needs to be held accountable for that. If she was unable to perform for physical or personal reasons, perhaps she should have not been there in the first place.

It was questionable judgment to go to a competition in Europe just two weeks before Worlds in the same location. In retrospect, it turned out to be a rather poor decision on part of the coaches to send her and Abbott over there and not remain there until Worlds due to the short turnaround time. Very poor thinking from team Czisny, but having said that, I don't even think it would have made a big difference in her performance if she didn't go. She was on the way down from the very beginning. Again- why wasn't USFS on top of things? They're not completely off the hook either.

 

[R.D.]

I liked Zawadski last year but she severely regressed this season for who knows what reason. I'd love to see her get it together.

Probably the coaching situation. I feel she could be made into a real contender with the right team behind her. Not sure if the status quo will do it....

 

[mskater93]

I agree with you- I'm not fighting you on this point.

But the way USFS had it arranged, Zawadzki would have been picked first (due to 3rd at Natls) before Zhang (4th at Natls). For some reason they skipped over Flatt (6th) and named Nagasu (7th) alternate #3.

Actually, by strict results, it should have been Gao as the third alternate...

 

[mskater93]

I don't expect any coach to be able to fix a head case... even Jamie Sale moving to a different coach couldn't fix her fear of the double axel. At the end of the day, the skater has to be ready to go out there and let it fall into place. I don't blame Paul Wylie's coaches for him being a headcase, Jason and Yuka did a great job getting her to a better place, but there's something there that they can't fix - and I don't expect anyone else to be able to either.

This is what my coach calls "I can't skate the program for you"

 

[Dragonlady]

The nastiness being levelled at Alissa is being rationized/justified in this thread with the argument that Alissa is a tough athlete who should be able to take it, and that fans do this to big time athletes all the time. I would respond by saying that I've always considered people who boo athletes at sporting contests as jerks. No athlete sets out to screw up. Bill Buckner had to leave his home and move away from Boston, because of abusive fans. This shouldn't happen.


So those of you who feel it necessary to heap abuse on Alissa, just be aware that some of us are going to think you're jerks. It's our perogative to do so because you put those words out here so we feel justified in judging you.

 

[RemyRose]

I don't mind being seen as a jerk. I don't attack skaters or athletes but what pisses me off to no end is people making excuses for them, coddling them like they are children, and said athletes not owning up to their B.S. It's okay to **** up and make mistakes, we all do it at some point, but own up to it. I hope many of the people whose coddling Alissa, coddled Rachael last year, otherwise what hypocrites and I feel justified in judging you.