Canadian Ladies: Where do they go from here?

[chuckm]

If Joannie doesn't return for 2013 Nationals, then I'd expect Osmond to win the 2013 Canadian title. IMO, she has a better chance to get back a second Olympic spot for Canada than either Lacoste or Phaneuf.

But Skate Canada has to increase that chance by sending Osmond to the GP, not back to the JGP. It wouldn't be advantageous for Osmond's PCS scores if she makes her Senior international debut at Worlds.

 

[hohoho]

As for Osmond, I think it would be best for Canada to write-off this Olympic cycle and continue with development. Send Osmond on the JGP where she has a shot to make the JGPF with the 3F required and 3-3 combo. She showed at worlds she can compete with these skaters. Maybe send her on a Senior B and then if she does well at Nationals send her to 4CC, Worlds, and WTT. Her development at the junior ranks could be done this fall. Let her ramp up towards Worlds where she could squeeze out a top 10.

For Ladies development in Canada, Skate Canada got to arrange a competition in July for any skater wanting to be coinsidered for international events. Too often skaters go to a JGP and that is their first "real" competition for the year as most only skate in "local" competitions where they already know they will win with nobody pushing them. Ladies skating in Canada has been declining since the NACS has been cancelled. Coincidence, I think not.

 

[chuckm]

That's what Skate Canada has always done: sent Senior skaters to JGP instead of the younger ones, and develop NO new skaters at the Senior level. No wonder Canada was stuck with Lacoste and Phaneuf this season.

BTW, there is no guarantee that Osmond would make the JGPF if she did go JGP next season. Even if she did, she'd have to MEDAL in the JGPF to have a shot at the GP in the 2013-2014 season. And then she'd be making her Senior debut at 2013 Worlds and maybe not getting PCS scores high enough to keep her in the top 10.

 

[Skater Boy]

Maybe they could revitalize Joannie Rochette. Do some people believe she still could be top ten or maybe even top 5? A closer analysis of her programs suggest she may be undermarked in some ways in respect to PCS. Her programs while not as epic as Chan's have some of the toughest and best transitions and such even compared to, gulp (don't hate me) Yuna Kim.

 

[blue dog]

Maybe they could revitalize Joannie Rochette. Do some people believe she still could be top ten or maybe even top 5? A closer analysis of her programs suggest she may be undermarked in some ways in respect to PCS. Her programs while not as epic as Chan's have some of the toughest and best transitions and such even compared to, gulp (don't hate me) Yuna Kim.

This is true. Joannie had to get it somewhere, and it was in transitions, because she didn't have the triple/triple that Kim had, or the triple axel like Mao.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I agree with hohoho. Write off this Olympic cycle. Give Daleman, Osmond et al a chance to develop on the junior gp circuit. If she happens to win Nationals, send her to Worlds and let the chips fall as they might.

That, or beg Joannie Rochette to come back. Skater Boy, her scores at the Japan Open suggest that top ten is plausible.

 

[blue dog]

I agree with hohoho. Write off this Olympic cycle. Give Daleman, Osmond et al a chance to develop on the junior gp circuit. If she happens to win Nationals, send her to Worlds and let the chips fall as they might.

That, or beg Joannie Rochette to come back. Skater Boy, her scores at the Japan Open suggest that top ten is plausible.

There was an interview posted here, where Joannie says she changes her decision on a daily basis. She was leaning more towards YES after watching the Canadian ladies this year, however.

 

[blue dog]

With Canada only having one spot in the world championships for London, people are looking for the next skater to pick up where Joannie Rochette left off (or at least someone who will get two spots back for the Olympics). Your thoughts?

Personally, I think Canadian ladies are perfectly capable, when push comes to shove. I understand they must have enormous pressure to now get the second spot back. They just need to push each other nationally. When Joannie was dominating nationals, it forced Cynthia to become a better skater. It forced Lesley Hawker to learn the triple flip and lutz...at 23! Mirai Nagasu had to (kind of) revamp her packaging to remain competitive.

 

[chuckm]

With Canada only having one spot in the world championships for London, people are looking for the next skater to pick up where Joannie Rochette left off (or at least someone who will get two spots back for the Olympics). Your thoughts?

Personally, I think Canadian ladies are perfectly capable, when push comes to shove. I understand they must have enormous pressure to now get the second spot back. They just need to push each other nationally. When Joannie was dominating nationals, it forced Cynthia to become a better skater. It forced Lesley Hawker to learn the triple flip and lutz...at 23! Mirai Nagasu had to (kind of) revamp her packaging to remain competitive.

Mirai NAGASU???? I think you mean Mira Leung. There is absolutely NO similarity between the two.

Sorry, but I don't agree the Canadian ladies (at least Phaneuf and Lacoste) are 'perfectly capable'. Lacoste was 16th at Worlds, and at WTT, they were 10th and 12th. And that was after 'pushing' each other nationally AND at 4CC (where they were 7th and 8th).

Unfortunately, Canada hasn't historically had much continuity with its ladies.

Josee Chouinard competed internationally from 1989 through 1996; she won medals in GP events and at the Champion Series Final, but she suffered from nerves and although she finished top 6 at Worlds three times, she was never able to medal at Worlds or Olympics.

Jennifer Robinson competed internationally from 1994 through 2004, but was never a World or 4CC medal contender.

Rochette competed at Worlds from 2003 through 2009, medaled at 4CC 2007-2009 (a bronze and two silvers), won silver at 2009 Worlds and Olympic bronze in 2010.

Cynthia Phaneuf showed great promise as a Junior skater, winning medals in the JGP and making it to the JGPF. She won the 2004 Canadian Championship and won silver at 4CC, but opted to go to JW, where she was 10th. She went to Worlds in 2005, but finished 20th. She had a growth spurt followed by injury and didn't make it back to Worlds until 2009 (15th). In 2010, she regained some of her earlier consistency and was 12th at the Olympics and 5th at Worlds. But she dropped to 13th at 2011 Worlds, losing the 2nd ladies spot in the process. She finished 2nd at Canadians in 2012 and finished behind Amelie Lacoste at 4CC, so she didn't get a chance to compete at Worlds 2012.

We can hope that Kaetlyn Osmond will follow in Rochette's footsteps and not Robinson's or Phaneuf's.

 

[sky_fly20]

Ksenia Makarova

she could become Canada's new Joannie Rochette

 

[Jammers]

It seems like a good Canadian woman only comes around every 8-10 years. And one that can actually be a contender it seems like it's even longer then that. All you have to do is look at Worlds or the Olympics and see how many years pass between Canadian women medaling.

 

[chuckm]

I don't see why Makarova would skate for Canada, as she has no ties to Canada. She is the daughter of Larisa Selezneva and Oleg Makarov, the 1984 Olympic Pairs champions. Both parents were born in St. Peterburg, Russia.

Makarova herself was born in St. Petersburg and moved to the US with her parents in 2000; the Makarovs reside in Newburgh, New York.

Ksenia competed at intermediate and novice levels in the US; she was 7th at 2007 US nationals as a Novice but never represented the US in international competition. She began competing for Russia in the 2007 JGP. She returned to Russia in 2011 and is still residing there.

Maybe Canada could draft Sarah or Emily Hughes, as both have dual US/Canadian citizenship. Of course, Sarah doesn't jump anymore. But there's always Emily.

 

[blue dog]

Isn't Skate Canada fairly powerful within the ISU? They could just lobby for some rule changes, which would value the triple salchow and the triple loop above the lutz and flip for the ladies. Make edge changes on the lutz and flip so penalized no one will attempt them. I kid, I kid!

Joannie really wanted the medal. In Liz's case, she felt no pressure, since she thought she wasn't gonna medal, so she skated lights out. So, what each lady needs to realize is figure out what their motivation is, and run with it. If Cynthia's motivation is anger, she needs to get angry. If Amelie's is no pressure, she needs to find a way to relieve herself of pressure. Canada has the best facilities and some of the best coaches in the world. They need to start using what they have and exploiting it. Japanese and Russian skaters are now going to Canada for training and choreography! The world knows Canada has amazing coaches and choreographers.

 

[Skater Boy]

Okay, now I really hope Joannie returns. If she skated the way she did at the Olympics with the flaws in the long program she shockingly could still podium. But even where she is at now and you can see the PCS she isn't too far from top 5. Think of how competitive Lepisto and Korpi are with not much content.

 

[PatC]

Patience, we'll just have to wait for a lady to step up to the plate. Osmond looks good, maybe Najarro will keep developing and perhaps someone will else will surprise us.

Joannie should just keep doing what she wants to. As far as Phaneuf, Samson, and Lacoste and others.........time to make a major career decision. I was just looking over the names of the winners, senior/junior/novice and so many of them from jr's especially haven't made the leap. Maybe one of them is working hard to make it this season, but nothing is leaping out at me. (shrug)

http://www.skatecanada.ca/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=NK92ZIPe5JI=&tabid=3304&language=en-US

 

[DianaSelene]

I don't see why Makarova would skate for Canada, as she has no ties to Canada. She is the daughter of Larisa Selezneva and Oleg Makarov, the 1984 Olympic Pairs champions. Both parents were born in St. Peterburg, Russia.

Makarova herself was born in St. Petersburg and moved to the US with her parents in 2000; the Makarovs reside in Newburgh, New York.

Ksenia competed at intermediate and novice levels in the US; she was 7th at 2007 US nationals as a Novice but never represented the US in international competition. She began competing for Russia in the 2007 JGP. She returned to Russia in 2011 and is still residing there.

Maybe Canada could draft Sarah or Emily Hughes, as both have dual US/Canadian citizenship. Of course, Sarah doesn't jump anymore. But there's always Emily.

Sorry if I'm wrong but I think sky_fly20 meant it as a joke. That obviously won't happen.

 

[slipslidin]

I think Canada has its star-making machine set too low, if its only popping one out every ten years, or so. We need to dial it up.

I believe it takes competition to make a competitor. We should get more girls into the mix, and then see how many rise to the top. Our international record doesn't speak well for our current system. I'd like to see four or five close competitors in Canada, let them push each other to excel, and also learn to deal with the inevitable disappointments along the way. If they can't jump, find out who can teach them, and send them there.

It didn't take the Russians long to produce contenders once they focussed on it.

 

[blue dog]

slipslidin, I think another reason for this is the fact that the Canadian commentators (at least the ones I've managed to catch; Debbie Wilkes, Rod Black, etc) talk about them as if they're the next Olympic champion! One commentator, who was commentating during the 2007 Nationals (I am sketchy on the year; it was the year Mira Leung had the La Bayadere short program) started talking about how Mira has eye-popping flexibility (which is true), and that she should be considered a contender for the 2010 Olympics! I can understand having pride in one's skaters, but they need to be critical, too. When you have too much pride and can't see fault, then the bar is invariably set very low.

 

[hohoho]

With the way that the ISU has limited the number of skaters in the GP, Osmond would possibly only get the Skate Canada assignment. With 6 slots in the JGP it is very important to Skate Canada to send the right skaters to continue with this as a minimum. From Nationals, Osmond was the only one to show a consistent 3F.

During the CBC broadcast of the JW, Mike Slipchuk mentioned that if a lady was there without a 3-3 and the required triple jump out of steps, they were not even in the game. Osmond can be competitive this year and with 4 more slots open it is an opportunity for 4 others to gain experience. Daleman with doing the Challenge Cup and winning Juniors this year would be a front runner and Jurome from Novice. Hopefully Skate Canada opts away from the soon to age out ladies.

As for Osmond being a Senior skating Junior, it is all part of development. It is one of the drawbacks of the Canadian Ladies Program being weak. If Senior and Junior was very strong she may have skated Junior nationally (ie, Gracie Gold in US). The Canadian skating fans and Skate Canada have to continue to be patient and allow the kids to develop internationally. Phaneuf, Lacoste, Samson, Desanctis, Najarro, Charbonneau, etc can hopefully fill the 6 slots (including 3 at SCI?).

 

[chuckm]

As for Osmond being a Senior skating Junior, it is all part of development. It is one of the drawbacks of the Canadian Ladies Program being weak. If Senior and Junior was very strong she may have skated Junior nationally (ie, Gracie Gold in US). The Canadian skating fans and Skate Canada have to continue to be patient and allow the kids to develop internationally. Phaneuf, Lacoste, Samson, Desanctis, Najarro, Charbonneau, etc can hopefully fill the 6 slots (including 3 at SCI?).

I'm wondering what are the "6 slots" to which you refer? GP invitations are based on the World Ranking and Seasons Best list and unless skaters are guaranteed invitations, nothing is sure except the 3 host picks for Skate Canada International.

Last season (2010-2011) Lacoste and Phaneuf each got 1 GP invitation plus Skate Canada because both were top 24 on the Seasons Best list and the World Ranking list. But only Lacoste will be top 24 on the current World Rankings after the old data is expunged. On the 2011-2012 Seasons Best list, Lacoste is #35, Phaneuf #39, Osmond #41, DeSanctis #64, Charbonneau #66, Najarro #88. That means only Lacoste is guaranteed at least one GP slot. The others are guaranteed nothing. In addition, Najarro and Samson are ineligible for GP invitations because Najarro is too low on the SB list, and Samson is not on the Seasons Best list because she didn't compete last season.