All Things Ice Dance: Canadian

[slipslidin]

It must be semantics, as Dragonlady claims no actual knowledge of the school and teams in question. I'm willing to concede that fine may have a very different meaning for her than good, and will therefore amend my original comment, thus: I find it amusing that so many Easterners are unwilling to admit that there is a good ice dance school in B.C. For me the meaning of that statement remains unchanged.

 

[Dragonlady]

It must be semantics, as Dragonlady claims no actual knowledge of the school and teams in question. I'm willing to concede that fine may have a very different meaning for her than good, and will therefore amend my original comment, thus: I find it amusing that so many Easterners are unwilling to admit that there is a good ice dance school in B.C. For me the meaning of that statement remains unchanged.

When would I have seen these skaters? Most of the teams you discuss, I've never heard of, much less seen? I go by international results, and one JGP gold will cause me to take notice for the future, but not send me into ecstasy. And for some reality, O&W's SD score at Lake Placid would have placed them in 16th spot at Worlds last year, right behind Ralph & Hill.

Every since 8 Rinks opened, we've been waiting for something amazing to happen there, but other than incessant whining by Joanne McLeod that her skaters don't get the marks they deserve, there has been little in the way of international results to get people excited.

Now I have a question for you. Why do you need easterners, or anyone for that matter, to validate your opinion?

 

[slipslidin]

I find your Question unanswerable, Dragonlady, my dear. It seems to be based on a faulty premise. I post my opinions here with some trepidition, and read, without posting for some years, because I cannot debate with those who take every dissenting opinion as a personal afront and rush to the attack, spittle flying.

Let me mention, in passing, that I have not mentioned Ralph and Hill in these comments. They did not go to Lake Placid and are from a dfferent school.

 

[dorispulaski]

Will Ralph & Hill be at the Thornhill competition? I seem to remember that they will be.

 

[colleen o'neill]

I believe R/H are entered in both the SD and the FD at Thornhill ( also G/P and P/I )

 

[blue dog]

As an American, I am jealous that Canada has so many wonderful schools.

However, there are only two Canadian "schools" that are truly making waves in ice dance, and they're run by Russians. In Detroit.

Wing/Lowe, Dubreuil/Lauzon, Islam, and the Lanes all have wonderful schools...but none of their skaters are out there cracking the top 6 at worlds. None of their skaters have ever cracked the top 6 at worlds while skating for them, but that's fine. They all teach fine technique, and maybe one day, they will.

 

[slipslidin]

I agree with your assessment, but now that I am on my toes semantically, I wonder if it might be wiser to say 'good'.

 

[ice coverage]

I believe R/H are entered in both the SD and the FD at Thornhill ( also G/P and P/I )

Ralph/Hill only in SD at Thornhill -- not FD.
Gilles/Poirier and Paul/Islam will compete in both.

http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com//Irma/Summer Skate 2012/ssden.pdf
http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com//Irma/Summer Skate 2012/sfden.pdf

 

[colleen o'neill]

Yes, blue dog , too true .. which is why , after last year's Canadians , many of us were praying that some , at least , of the #'s 4 , 5, and 6 teams would go to Detroit ( or somewhere ) to get that extra push to take them to the next level.

Having said that, I'm interested in how the coaching , as well as the skating is developing nationally , and don't judge who I think has qualities deserving of praise only based on World or Sr.GP results ... or , necessarily, on the length of establishment of the school... Our skaters can't just be farmed out at 8 or 9 yrs. of age.... Good, fine , wonderful , excellent up to a given level is an admirable thing ,especially if, in time, that level can be moved higher.

If there's been a bit of a shake-up going on with the advent of W/L's and D/L's schools ..I think that's a good thing. We're always saying that one of the benefits of sending our teams elsewhere is that they have other good teams to compete with / be inspired by... The same has to be true of coaching..everybody benefits from competition ..keeps everyone on their toes and striving for excellence. ( However this will only work if everyone admits the competition exists. It will do no good to say "La-la-la-la" and look the other way. )

ETA: I'm disappointed that R/H will not compete their FD at Thornhill .

 

[chuckm]

And for some reality, O&W's SD score at Lake Placid would have placed them in 16th spot at Worlds last year, right behind Ralph & Hill.

It is NOT reality to compare O/W's score from their first competition of the season to R/H's score in their final season competition.

 

[chuckm]

I'm disappointed that R/H will not compete their FD at Thornhill .

R/H haven't done much in the way of summer competitions over the past three seasons. When they do compete, they do only one program, never both.

 

[slipslidin]

I'll be interested to see their short dance, anyway. I'm hoping to see two a**-kicking programs for them this year, and the can-can could be a good way to start.

 

[Dragonlady]

No one is even mentioning Paul McIntosh in this discussion. He's the guy I credit with giving us two of top four teams in the world. Marina & Igor gave Virtue & Moir the choreography and the big tricks to get them to the top, but Paul McIntosh taught them, and Andrew Poje, the basics and the partnering skills to get them there. If I had a kid who aspired to be an ice dancer, I'd send them to Kitchener to learn the basics.

I don't get too excited about the results of summer competitions, especially for senior skaters. Their season doesn't start until October so usually what you see a "not ready for prime time" program. Some skaters are further along in their preparations than others and that can skew results. The results are more telling for Juniors since their preparations and their season starts a lot sooner than the seniors.

No, slipsliding, "good" would not apply either. Promising is the best you'll get from me.

Colleen, if you are a competitive skater, and the point of competing is to win, the ONLY criteria to determine the worth of the school, IMO, is the medals and championships won. If you want to skate as a hobby, it's not important how you do in competitions, but if you are competing, the measure of success is medals and championships.

 

[slipslidin]

No, slipsliding, "good" would not apply either. Promising is the best you'll get from me.]

I respect your personal opinion, and would not dream of trying to change it.

 

[Dragonlady]

slipslidin, some questions for you:

Are the Kraatz's still coaching at 8 Rinks? When I go to the 8 Rinks website the only coach pictured is Joanne McLeod, and it is mentioned that Wing & Lowe head up the ice-dance program. There is no mention of any other coach at 8 Rinks and there's no list of the coaching staff there.

What has gotten back to us eastern folk is that 8 Rinks is a haven of dysfunction with McLeod getting credit for coaching every skater at the rink, even if they spend minimal time with her. I note that all enquiries for competitive training, including dance training, must be submitted to Joanne McLeod.

There has been a revolving door for coaching staff since the place opened with many of those leaving citing Joanne McLeod's interference with their programs as the reason. My understanding that Kraatz' agreed to stay ONLY if their program was separate from the rest of the elite training program and McLeod was not allowed to interfere. There were similar problems when McLeod was at YRSA where McLeod had a reputation for poaching students.

 

[colleen o'neill]

I'm chiming in ( although it's not my question) Joanne Macleod is not to be mentioned in the same breath with W&L ( IMO)..And as far as I can tell, she hasn't found a way of trying to taking credit for their achievements ... They don't appear to follow her lead, and happily, obviously do not seek her advice on costumes for their skaters , either.

Wing and Lowe always intended to teach in Vancouver and I imagine 8 Rinks is by far the best facility around . I hope the ice dance school continues to enjoy a good degree of separation, without Victor being there ( last I heard he went to teach for a while in Australia. That could be out of date info , now ..but he's not at 8 rinks..) ..I don't have any connection with the rink , so don't really have an inside scoop , but feel fairly confident in what I've just expressed.

 

[slipslidin]

Sorry, Dragonlady, I am not privy to any inside information from 8 Rinks. I've never been near the place. I don't know any of these people personally.

All I know is based on results. Since the arrival of Wing and Lowe, we suddenly see a group of well presented, well-trained, and well-matched ice dancers. They all have nice posture and the girls have lovely turned-out legs and pointed toes. I have also heard, and have no reason to doubt, that Megan helps singles skaters with their skating skills. I say more power to them!

 

[slipslidin]

Now, back to the Great Canadian Skatebuzz Binge, Thornhill and BC/Yukon Summerskates. I'm really looking forward to these two competitions, I'm anxious to see the new incarnation of Paul and Islam and also Aronow and Brubaker, they look lovely in their pictures. I'm not so curious about Gilles and Poirier, I don't expect them to be marked any lower than they were in their first year, either here or at Canadians. If they are marked much higher, the top two teams are in trouble. And, of course, it will be our first chance to see the BC teams.

It should all be available , either live or archived because there are only two competitions to cover, this time.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yes, Victor worked with singles skaters as well, especially in regards to their stroking and skating skills, not that MacLeod ever gave him credit for it.

Colleen, when JMcL left Ontario, the skating community here said "good riddance". Bruno Marcotte, who now works with Richard Gaultier, was hired to set up a Pairs school at 8 Rinks. I think he lasted about two seasons. Unfortunately, Ted Barton seems to be completely in thrall to MacLeod and lets her get away with any number of things that would not be tolerated elsewhere, including taking coaching credit for every singles skater coming out of 8 Rinks, regardless of how minimal her involvement may be.

I realize that Wing & Lowe are operating under the same independence as the Kraatz's did when they were in Burnaby, but I do find it worrisome that in order to get into the ice-dance program there, you have to forward your request for information to MacLeod.

 

[blue eyed birds]

Changing topic, there's a new interview with Ralph and Hill up at ice-dance.com. Looks like their cancan is from Gigi.