Men's and Ladies' Gymnastics

[Ginask8s]

I think the USA had something to do with that rule ( 2 in the AA)back when we were not as dominant. A friend told me it was put in place to help other countries get exposure and TV time. Also, Maroney is a really good all a rounder. Her floor is very beautiful. Too bad she fell and hit her head at Nationals.

 

[macy]

my heart broke for jordyn wieber. that rule is soo cruel. in my opinion i thought she should have beaten gabby on floor since in my opinion jordyn has better form and gabby had that huge step out of bounds. i also feel extremely sorry for her because unlike gabby, jordyn has been improving every year steadily, where until the beginning of this year gabby wasn't hardly known. she kind of stole jordyn's spot. something tells me jordyn isn't done though, and i hope she isn't. she has a deep love for gymnastics and a fire for it. i hope she sticks around until 2016, she'll still be relatively young. but i heard the team won team finals by 5 points over russia, that's awesome.

michigan still loves you jordyn!

 

[Olympia]

Yeah, just because there were only newbies on this year's team doesn't mean that some of them won't repeat for Rio in 2016. Remember that Shannon Miller, part of the Magnificent Seven in 1996, was a veteran Olympian from Barcelona. It can be done!

Can some of you experts explain to me, by the way, why Carly Patterson seems so obscure? She got almost no publicity from her All-Around win, and she was the first American to do the trick since Mary Lou Retton in 1984. And Carly was the first American to win that gold in a non-boycotted games. The U.S.S.R., then the world's best team, didn't take part in the L.A. Olympics in Mary Lou's year. I don't even remember a fuss being made over Carly during the games themselves--not the way people lionized (deservedly so) Shaun Johnson and Nastia Liukin later on, or even some of the swimmers.

 

[Serious Business]

Carly Patterson had lousy agents, that's why. She had a really ill-advised attempt at a music career. Not that Nastia didn't have her own silly career moves, but Nastia has a lot more going for her in terms of gaining notoriety:

A) Nastia is prettier. She's a stunner and that never hurts.
B) Her rivalry with fellow American Shawn Johnson made for a much more interesting narrative to the American audience than Patterson vs. that sour-faced Russian hag what's-her-name.
C) Nastia has a much more memorable name.
D) Nastia's winning form and style is much more memorable, unique and impressive than any other gymnast in the last few decades. Her lines are out of this world. A silhouette of Nastia competing would be immediately recognizable.
E) And last but not least, let's face it, Carly Patterson just wasn't that great. I remember watching her floor routine at the Olympics, and found it offensively un-musical. When I heard she wanted to get into a career in music I had a good laugh.

Yeah, just because there were only newbies on this year's team doesn't mean that some of them won't repeat for Rio in 2016. Remember that Shannon Miller, part of the Magnificent Seven in 1996, was a veteran Olympian from Barcelona. It can be done!

Not any more, not in the US at least. Modern gymnastics, with what their sport's version of the COP looks for, requires all kinds of skills that an older gymnast with a more developed body will find exponentially harder to do, according to competitive gymnasts I've talked to. Jordyn will be 21 by Rio, and I don't see her contending for the all-around. She'd have to be on the team as a specialist. But what would it be? She's great at everything she does but there's no one thing she's astoundingly good at. With the depth of US women's gymnastics, I find it hard to imagine an older and less competitive Jordyn would be able to keep up with the younger American women competing for the spots. And that's only if Wieber doesn't get seriously injured, something that happens to pretty much every top US gymnast sooner or later given the brutal schedule Karolyi puts them through. I think Wieber should be very proud of her team gold, and let her gracious cheerleading for her teammates win the audience over.

 

[100yen]

I think Wieber should be very proud of her team gold, and let her gracious cheerleading for her teammates win the audience over.

Her beautiful smile during her floor routine sealed the deal I think...I gained so much respect for her through her incredible sportsmanship in the team finals. I applaud how she is dealing with everything

 

[Olympia]

Thank you so much, SB. This helps me think about what I'll be seeing tonight, and also the history of gymnastics. I'm sorry to hear that the CoP of gymnastics now favors children again. The original Children's Era, post-Nadia, was when I kind of stopped paying so much attention to gymnastics. If there's another one coming up, I'll probably be less interested again. I wonder whether an emphasis on sprites favors China, where even the older gymnasts tend to have smaller physiques. After all, they are a gymnastics power now, maybe even the main one.

Certainly Nastia has an edge in terms of appearance. She is taller than today's typical gymnast as well as having the kind of harmonious facial features that maybe 1% of the world gets gifted with. As you say, she's also a very stylish gymnast and has a memorable name. I have no problem with her being a celebrity by virtue of her gymnastics achievements. I'm sorry that Carly couldn't benefit similarly from her turn at the top of the podium.

And I agree with you and 100yen that Jordyn has covered herself with glory both as a gymnast and as a team player. She'll have plenty of fans in her future, which I hope is bright.

 

[skateluvr]

I hope they don't spread this out all night until after the news into late night. Anyoone know how much will be aired og gymnastics in primetime? I'm happy for them and sad to say the shingles seems to have blown the system and I am in agony three weeks in because i have a rare condition in my nerves called arachnoiditis. I can't watch much TV. I have been to NBC.com but I do not see a link where I can watch it as on TV on computer...am I not finding the right link? Please you guys, if there is a computer stream for the gymnastics that is as good or better than NBC coverage yet to come. I have no TV in my bedroom and must lay flat. Thank God I have some pain meds, impossible to get, and from a doctor I am trapped with-he is incompetent otherwise.

I am discouraged, and I am cheered by the good parts here, so please anyone, a link, and a prayer to watching the coverage on line. Now that I read we won and saw the Tv spoilers, I really want to see this. The Fab 5. What a moment for them. I can imagine the podium. God bless the Russian and Romanian girls-Romanians are third? There has been great insight here. Bless you all, us little band of "summer oly skate fans."

I really think Gabby is going to win the all around. I hope for her mom, and girls of color the flying squirrel goes all the way. They could sure use the money and I'd buy wheaties if she's on the box. Any cnandian or english speaking feed should cover us well if NBC doesn't stream the Tv coverage. I'm just not good or too patient at searching now so tks guys in advance. Rock on.

 

[Serious Business]

While I do think the modern rules in women's gymnastics favor younger women, I don't know if they actually favor just the tiny ones. There are so many things that require brute strength and power, and the new team selection rules mean almost every gymnast on the team has to be good on multiple apparatuses (so they can't just stick to ones that don't require as much power/strength). I mean, no doubt, it's a young gymnast's game. But with the age requirement set to 16, it's not like they're as young as Nadia was. If you look at the American team, which proved themselves to be the epitome of women's gymnastics, they would seem to be the perfect example of gymnastic bodies: sleek and compact but also full of power. I don't know if this actually favors the current batch of Chinese women. They pretty much lost that bronze on the vault, where they lacked power. In the past, China had some fearsome vaulters. Of course, they also had more spots on the team for vault specialists, so they can have a mix of powerhouses and waifs. Going forward, China is going to have to adjust and come up with gymnasts who are good at more things.

Does having successful female gymnasts look stronger mitigate the ick factor of them being so young (and again, they can't be as young as Nadia was)? Having athletes that look less physically vulnerable makes me feel less squicky about watching them attempt dangerous feats. The reality is, though, that being that young still leaves them vulnerable to pressure, less mature decisions, authority figures that may abuse them, etc.

Any cnandian or english speaking feed should cover us well if NBC doesn't stream the Tv coverage. I'm just not good or too patient at searching now so tks guys in advance. Rock on.

Here are some NBC feeds: Stream 1 Stream 2 Stream 3

You can find many more feeds of channels from all over the world that cover the Olympics on the site here. The BBC streams have excellent quality of the Beeb's live coverage of the games, and of course, it'd be in English. And if you want more live coverage, check out SportLemon, which aggregates a ton of live sports feeds.

 

[Olympia]

Does having successful female gymnasts look stronger mitigate the ick factor of them being so young (and again, they can't be as young as Nadia was)? Having athletes that look less physically vulnerable makes me feel less squicky about watching them attempt dangerous feats. The reality is, though, that being that young still leaves them vulnerable to pressure, less mature decisions, authority figures that may abuse them, etc.

Exactly that. You have put your finger on just what makes me anxious about gymnastics, and you said it in a way that couldn't be bettered.

 

[chloepoco]

my heart broke for jordyn wieber. that rule is soo cruel. in my opinion i thought she should have beaten gabby on floor since in my opinion jordyn has better form and gabby had that huge step out of bounds. i also feel extremely sorry for her because unlike gabby, jordyn has been improving every year steadily, where until the beginning of this year gabby wasn't hardly known. she kind of stole jordyn's spot. something tells me jordyn isn't done though, and i hope she isn't. she has a deep love for gymnastics and a fire for it. i hope she sticks around until 2016, she'll still be relatively young. but i heard the team won team finals by 5 points over russia, that's awesome.

michigan still loves you jordyn!

Do you follow gymnastics at all? If you do, you should know that Gabby has worked very hard and made tremendous improvement. And no, she did not "steal" Jordyn's spot; it just so happens that Gabby has been performing extremely well lately. They both equally deserve whatever spotlight is on them.

 

[Serious Business]

Personally, I think Ms. 28th place stole Jordyn Wieber's spot. I'm totally over it, though, as it seems like Wieber is. She performed brilliantly today, all smiles, culminating in bringing home a gold medal that her home country has been missing a lot longer than the individual all-around gold. I think she's happy about it, her mom is happy about it, the coaches are happy about it. There's no point in us spectators being upset about it any more.

I do, however, think the rule needs a change. If each country can only send 3 competitors to compete for the individual all-around to begin with, what's the sense in limiting it to just the top two? This results in ridiculous situations like this one. The only way it could've been worse is if a competitor finished third (instead of Jordyn's fourth) in the qualifying round and still couldn't go to the all-around final. I mean, come on! Each country already has such limited spots, don't yank the dream away from the athletes right during the Olympics. Let that happen during the Olympic trials in their own country, it's only polite.

 

[skateluvr]

I love Mustafina and Komova, they r so lovely. I even miss Khorhina-the Russian ladies always seem so stressed. They are all so young...Why are we not eeing any Romanians? have I missed it? I miss Nastia and Shaun, tho the USA is doing great. Well, I want to see the australians too. Why do they limit the marquee sport for swimming? I seem to only catch olympic gymnastics so i want to see a lot. The Russians and Romanians dance on floor, why do our girls look like they don't take ballet classes? Nastia had nice lines...was it her Russian parents that pushed dance?

Well, knowing the results keeps the nailbiting down. I just wish Komova and Mustafina performed with confidence as they are so elegant. These girls look like they will be starved or beaten if they don't win gold, which they were not favored for. Wherer are the Romanians! Geesh NBC! Khorhina should be there to prod them and support!, Great FX Gabby! She is the Mary Lou/Kerri Strug of these games! Pure charm...go Jordyn!

Oh FX! Jordyn was fantastic! I love her!

 

[Serious Business]

The NBC coverage of gymnastics, I can only describe as skeletal. They keep showing ads and fluff pieces, but very few actual routines. The few routines they show are all from either the Americans, or from that evil horde of Russians who are always just this close to stealing the American's gold. Sometimes, a random routine from a non-American, non-Russian country sneaks in there. An editor screwed up, no doubt.

The thing is, if NBC wanted to, they absolutely could show at least 4 times more routines while still keeping the same number of fluff pieces and ads. The fact is, gymnastics routines aren't very long by themselves. It's the prep time, the waiting, the rotations that take up the most room. Since this is all entirely tape delayed, NBC could just edit it down to the routines. But of course, to do that, they would utterly dispel the notion that this is live (although, how do people not know this isn't live?). So in the interest of preserving that ridiculous illusion, NBC is going to waste everybody's time while showing as few routines as possible.

All I can is, thank heavens I saw the BBC feed instead of the NBC one. During waits between rotations, the beeb would actually use that time to show routines the audience missed because they took place simultaneously with a routine that was being shown live. The network would very efficiently edit it down to just the routine, show us all the good bits, then move onto another routine we missed. And they managed to do all this while the event was going on live. NBC is run by incompetents who lack any sort of imagination or empathy. The network is really not fit to cover anything other than a county fair in Arkansas. I find much schadenfreude in the fact that NBC is often the 5th place network, with ratings below not only the other 3 major English-speaking networks, but also the Spanish-speaking network Univision.

 

[MoonlightSkater]

the nbc coverage of gymnastics, i can only describe as skeletal. They keep showing ads and fluff pieces, but very few actual routines. The few routines they show are all from either the americans, or from that evil horde of russians who are always just this close to stealing the american's gold. Sometimes, a random routine from a non-american, non-russian country sneaks in there. An editor screwed up, no doubt.

The thing is, if nbc wanted to, they absolutely could show at least 4 times more routines while still keeping the same number of fluff pieces and ads. The fact is, gymnastics routines aren't very long by themselves. It's the prep time, the waiting, the rotations that take up the most room. Since this is all entirely tape delayed, nbc could just edit it down to the routines. But of course, to do that, they would utterly dispel the notion that this is live (although, how do people not know this isn't live?). So in the interest of preserving that ridiculous illusion, nbc is going to waste everybody's time while showing as few routines as possible.

All i can is, thank heavens i saw the bbc feed instead of the nbc one. During waits between rotations, the beeb would actually use that time to show routines the audience missed because they took place simultaneously with a routine that was being shown live. The network would very efficiently edit it down to just the routine, show us all the good bits, then move onto another routine we missed. And they managed to do all this while the event was going on live. Nbc is run by incompetents who lack any sort of imagination or empathy. The network is really not fit to cover anything other than a county fair in arkansas. I find much schadenfreude in the fact that nbc is often the 5th place network, with ratings below not only the other 3 major english-speaking networks, but also the spanish-speaking network univision.

quoting for truth

 

[MoonlightSkater]

I love Mustafina and Komova, they r so lovely. I even miss Khorhina-the Russian ladies always seem so stressed. They are all so young...Why are we not eeing any Romanians? have I missed it? I miss Nastia and Shaun, tho the USA is doing great. Well, I want to see the australians too. Why do they limit the marquee sport for swimming? I seem to only catch olympic gymnastics so i want to see a lot. The Russians and Romanians dance on floor, why do our girls look like they don't take ballet classes? Nastia had nice lines...was it her Russian parents that pushed dance?
Well, knowing the results keeps the nailbiting down. I just wish Komova and Mustafina performed with confidence as they are so elegant. These girls look like they will be starved or beaten if they don't win gold, which they were not favored for. Wherer are the Romanians! Geesh NBC! Khorhina should be there to prod them and support!, Great FX Gabby! She is the Mary Lou/Kerri Strug of these games! Pure charm...go Jordyn!

Oh FX! Jordyn was fantastic! I love her!

Most of the American gymnasts have not taken dance classes. Jordyn just started about a year ago. Mykayla has lovely dance, but her broken toe kept her off floor in London. Nastia's mother was a world champion rhythmic gymnast. Thus, Nastia comes by her lines honestly and there was no way that her Russian, rhythmic loving parents would ever let her get away without dance classes.

 

[skateluvr]

There was a dark haired Russian, mature woman who was so elegant and finished every move. Poron maybe? i can't recall, but the Americans should train some ballet at an early age. I wonder if there are reasons they don't here? The American women are so bulky. I noticed they were like men in upper body. I'd like to see the other nationalities-two was a rip off.

 

[MoonlightSkater]

Not any more, not in the US at least. Modern gymnastics, with what their sport's version of the COP looks for, requires all kinds of skills that an older gymnast with a more developed body will find exponentially harder to do, according to competitive gymnasts I've talked to. Jordyn will be 21 by Rio, and I don't see her contending for the all-around. She'd have to be on the team as a specialist. But what would it be? She's great at everything she does but there's no one thing she's astoundingly good at. With the depth of US women's gymnastics, I find it hard to imagine an older and less competitive Jordyn would be able to keep up with the younger American women competing for the spots.

I have to disagree with this. Many gymnasts have competed more than one Olympics recently. In this Olympics alone, the Russians have a returning gymnast in Ksenia Afanasyeva. The Chinese have Deng Linlin and He Kexin returning, and Jiang Yuanyuan is their first alternate. The Romanians have Sandra Izbasa who upgraded her vaults, is a medal contender again on floor after having won floor gold in 2008, and who competed all around. Catalina Ponor won three golds in 2004, skipped 2008, and came back for the London games with a chance to win a medal on both beam and floor. Neither Sandra or Catalina have ever been very good at bars, sadly, or they could be in the hunt for the all-around. Italy has Vanessa Ferrari who won the worlds in 2006 and competed in 2008. Germany has Oksana Chusovitina who is in her sixth Oympics and who has a chance to medal in vault again after having medaled in 2008. She first competed for the Unified Team in 1992.

I will grant that none of the major all-around contenders this year are returns. In recent history, however, we've had several return all-around contenders: 2008 had Anna Pavlova who came ever so close to medaling in the all-around in 2004. Svetlana Khorkina competed in 1996, 2000, and 2004 and had a chance at an all-around medal in all three Olympics. Zhang Nan, who won bronze in 2004, had been around for years as well. Romanian Simona Amanar, who won silver (and was controversially upgraded to gold) in 2000, did so in her second Olympics. Svetlana Boginskaya competed in 1988 and 1992 before retiring for a couple of years, but then came back to compete and contend in the all-around in 1996 (she won a European silver but peaked before the Olympics). Shannon Miller, Dominique Dawes, and Kerri Strug all competed in 1992 and 1996. Though they did not compete the all-around in 2000, both Dominique Dawes and Amy Chow made the US team in 2000. In 2004 Mohini Bhardwaj made her first Olympic team after having just missed the team in 1996 and spending four years in college. Annia Hatch won a vault medal for the US in 2004 after missing her chance with Cuba in 1996. Cheng Fei was in her second Olympics with China in 2008.

I will agree that the biggest problem with the current code of points is that it tends to cause injuries that can limit the career length of many gymnasts. Ironically, the age requirements were moved upward at the same time, meaning that gymnasts have to learn harder skills younger now, but that they may become injured before they are considered age-eligeable for the Olympics. PengPeng Lee of Canada was by far and away their best gymnast in 2008, but she was deemed a year too young. She blew out her knee during the Olympic run-up this year and may have lost her chance at the Olympics. Alicia Sacramone, Shawn Johnson, Nastia Liukin, Chellsie Memmel, and Bridget Sloan (five out of the six gymnasts on the Beijing team) all were hidered by injury in their comeback attempts. Alicia had the best chance at making the team, especially after making the team for worlds last year, but she didn't have time to upgrade after tearing her achilles last year. She still might have made the team had the US not had a need for a bar worker, an event she was so bad at that she stopped training it before Beijing. Nastia had a shoulder injury that limited her training on bars from January through May. Without that injury she would've had a very good chance at the team. Without injuries, all five of these gymnasts would've been right in the hunt for a spot on the team.

 

[Serious Business]

I think Jordyn may have a second shot at competing in the Olympics all-around if she competed for another country, and she may have had an actual shot at gold if this was pre-FIG CoP. I just don't see a 21 year old winning under the current rules. And I really don't see a 21 year old staying competitive under the brutal, gladiatorial US gymnastics program. The ridiculous amount of injuries suffered by American gymnasts aren't caused by the CoP, but by the ruthless training/competition schedule they have to follow in the US. See this article. Jordyn can either keep herself in the mix for the next 4 years, which would require enduring a really grueling regiment without incurring any debilitating injury, or she can take a break from competition for a few years, and risk losing her skills/reputation/favor. Part and parcel of the Karolyi program is the fact that the US is so ridiculously rife with talented female gymnasts, they can afford to chew them up and spit them out. Jordyn would have to hold back a nonstop horde of fresher, stronger gymnasts while not overdoing it to the point of injury. She's in a couple of catch-22s.

With all that said, is it totally impossible for Jordyn to make the next Olympic team and compete in the all-around? Definitely not. In fact, I would consider it an epic achievement if she makes it onto the next Olympic team. She would cement her status as a legend and would no doubt win over even more fans and endorsement deals. But it's going to be an uphill climb full of pitfalls.

 

[Olympia]

There was a dark haired Russian, mature woman who was so elegant and finished every move. Poron maybe? i can't recall, but the Americans should train some ballet at an early age. I wonder if there are reasons they don't here? The American women are so bulky. I noticed they were like men in upper body. I'd like to see the other nationalities-two was a rip off.

Poron was Romanian. I noticed her too. After the tentative wobblings of the young girls on the balance beam, she was as steady as a rock. Apparently she won the event several Olympics ago, but she won't be in the event finals.

 

[seniorita]

In case you haven't yet found it: Eurovision Sports = your friend. This is true for all European sports fans!

Is eurosport free or you need to pay for eurosport player? I m watching bbc with expat shield, I think their coverage is amazing, a tone of technical mentions and neutral comments.

B) Her rivalry with fellow American Shawn Johnson made for a much more interesting narrative to the American audience than Patterson vs. that sour-faced Russian hag what's-her-name.

Khorkina was the star of 2004 Games and quite a legend in the sport for calling her like that, nevertheless I was there when Patterson won and she was great.

I love Mustafina and Komova, they r so lovely. I even miss Khorhina-the Russian ladies always seem so stressed. They are all so young...Why are we not eeing any Romanians?

There was a dark haired Russian, mature woman who was so elegant and finished every move. Poron maybe?

Catalina Ponor is Romanian if you mean her. She won multiple golds in 2004, she comes back now, watch out her beam. Dark haired Russian is Aliya Mustafina, Comaneci has singled her out in 2010 as the one to watch, being different and all around. She has been injured though. Another super hyped Romanian is Iordache, injured too.

I m sorry to mention it but Wieber is not the only one to suffer from the cruel rule, which exists quite a lot of time anyway. China, Russia and England have also three athletes in the top 24 that wont participate for the same reason. I would love to see Grishina in AA too. It realy bothers me that media make a lot of drama of her not being in AA, it is not a new rule and it doesnt happen for the first time. In Q you fight to be in the top two of your country most of all, besides Douglas totally stole the show yesterday.
That photo is priceless, best vault of the decade for sure