State of American Ladies: 2012-13 Season

[sky_fly20]

I suppose that Japan federation has the deep field so that they can afford it, unlike US. Even if USFSA puts all eggs into the SA basket, I very much doubt it will bring a full house in attendence. There is no star/stars in US ladies. I think Ashley Wagner is vulnerable. USFSA is desparate in finding a star lady skater.

on contrary they are actually putting Ashley as the star of SA, its just taht the other American ladies competing with her are more of the B class,
they are spreading the wealth and giving the other left open for a medal like Gracie and Agnes not pitting them with Ashley

 

[janetfan]

I agree with this. I see no reason not to have several competitive American skaters at Skate America. Let's face it, the Grand Prix is really just a way for skaters to try out their programs and get feedback from the international judges. There is no good reason not to let the home country see several of its skaters at this event--especially since skating is already on a downward trend in America. Mirai is a talented and exciting skater when she is "on." Why not showcase her along with the others?

Thanks - it is nice to see atleast one poster understands what I am talking about here.

BTW, contrary to what other posters write about my comments - I am not saying Mirai would sell more tickets at SA.

The truth is it's far too late for the memories she created at the Olympics to have much effect now. US Skating with it's bizarre anti-sport and pro-pageant thinking is solely responsible for that.

The "strategy" of protecting skaters with the goal of making the GPF is something I totally and completely, absolutely and unconditionallly REJECT.

I get that for a few skating GEEKS it is part of there entire skating/sport experience. :disapp:

I see it much, much differently.

The Japanese Federation is making it clear the health and well-being of NHK and skating popularity in Japan comes before protecting a skater's chances of making the GPF.

Skate America typically takes the opposite tact.

Simple question - where is skating more popular - in Japan or USA :think:

Why in the world would Japan not want to treat it's fans to a showcase event featuring it's best skaters?
A no-brainer even if it disappoints a few skating board fans.

Ultimately, as jenaj stated the popularity and economic well-being of skating is not determined by the GPF.
It is the whole season that matters (along with other factors).

The more sporting and exciting the GP events can feel offers skating it's best chance to grow - or in the case of N. America to KEEP what remains of it fan base.

ETA

My choices for the American Ladies at SA would have been:

Ashley
Gracie
Mirai or Agnes

What good is it to have a promising young skater like Gracie if she is not seen at SA?

How does it help raise interest or establish Gracie as a future star if her own federation won;t showcase her at Skate America?

I would also stick Gracie in a 2nd tough as possible GP event

Sochi is next season - protecting Gracie makes no sense at all. She is either the real deal or not.

 

[Trewyn]

on contrary they are actually putting Ashley as the star of SA, its just taht the other American ladies competing with her are more of the B class,
they are spreading the wealth and giving the other left open for a medal like Gracie and Agnes not pitting them with Ashley

Anyone who thinks Ashley has been given 'an easy path to the GPF' hasn't properly looked at the line-up for TEB. I think 'spreading the wealth' is a more logical reasoning to not have two top US skaters in SA. I don't necessarily agree with that, but Skate Canada has been a lot worse in 'protecting their possible champion', the field at SC was watered down several seasons. Besides, withrawals and uncharacteristically bad/good skates from skaters make it so that predicting the 'hard' and 'easy' events is nearly impossible.

But yes, on paper, Ashley is a clear favourite to wint he SA title. I really hope she does

 

[Bluebonnet]

Simple question - where is skating more popular - in Japan or USA :think:

You made it sounds like an "egg first or chicken first" question. It's actually quite simple. You have to have a star first before you have the possibilies of considering the prosperity of the sport in your country. In Japan's case, they have not only one star, but also many world class stars. They will have a full house audience even if they take off a couple of their top skater names from the list at NHK.

On the other hand, even if you put all top American men and all top American ladies in SA, it won't bring a full house. Do average Americans love and care to see more world class foriegn skaters compete and win on their soil? It's the most important thing for USFSA to help to make a star for US. I don't think the average Americans care who they beat and how they beat their competitors. As long as their own country wins, they are happy. The more you win, the more your star status will be firm. And the more fans you will bring.

What good is it to have a promising young skater like Gracie if she is not seen at SA?

How does it help raise interest or establish Gracie as a future star if her own federation won;t showcase her at Skate America?

Gracie is not a star yet. If she won the Nationals, I think she'll be put into SA.

 

[janetfan]

Gracie is not a star yet. If she won the Nationals, I think she'll be put into SA.

If Gracie medaled or won at SA and then did well at Natls she could become a "star" of sorts. Or atleast have a chance....

If Americans don't get a chance to see her how can she become a "star."

Can you explain that - or anything you write?

How about some deeper thinking and more honest thoughts - as opposed to just disagreeing with me for the heck of it :think:

 

[sky_fly20]

What good is it to have a promising young skater like Gracie if she is not seen at SA?

How does it help raise interest or establish Gracie as a future star if her own federation won;t showcase her at Skate America?

I would also stick Gracie in a 2nd tough as possible GP event

Sochi is next season - protecting Gracie makes no sense at all. She is either the real deal or not.

they are more like testing Gracie and not protecting her
look at her assignments, they are letter her familiarize by competing in Russia
as Sochi draws near

 

[blue dog]

Sadly, the average American won't see Gracie at Skate America, even if she was assigned there, since the average American only really pays attention to skating every four years.

I disagree with the ensuring an easy path for your skater to GPF way of handing out assignments, but this is USFS' way of ensuring that both girls, or all girls have a chance to make it to a bigger stage than Skate America--the Grand Prix final.

 

[janetfan]

they are more like testing Gracie and not protecting her
look at her assignments, they are letter her familiarize by competing in Russia
as Sochi draws near

Ok - a fair point.

Personally I would rather give Americans a chance to see Gracie at SA.

Geez...her name alone....."Gold" brings back memories....

Am I being unfair to Gracie?

It is not my intention....

I think if Americans actually get to see Gracie they might show a bit of enthusiasm again for figure skating.

 

[janetfan]

Sadly, the average American won't see Gracie at Skate America, even if she was assigned there, since the average American only really pays attention to skating every four years.

I disagree with the ensuring an easy path for your skater to GPF way of handing out assignments, but this is USFS' way of ensuring that both girls, or all girls have a chance to make it to a bigger stage than Skate America--the Grand Prix final.

I agree with you ....except it is not true that the GPF has more interest in USA than Skate America.

While it is true in the CoP era Skate America has fallen far of the radar in USA - let's be honest here - the GPF is not on the radar at all.

Zip, zilch, nada, bupkus.....capice?

 

[Bluebonnet]

If Gracie medaled or won at SA and then did well at Natls she could become a "star" of sorts. Or atleast have a chance....

If Americans don't get a chance to see her how can she become a "star."

Can you explain that - or anything you write?

How about some deeper thinking and more honest thoughts - as opposed to just disagreeing with me for the heck of it :think:

I am as honest as I can be. I do not just want to disagree with you for the purpose of disagreeing with you. Why can't you see that to have a reigning National Junior Champion beat the reigning National Champion is a disservice for the entire US ladies figure skating? It's like women's tennis without Serena Williams. Each grand slam has a new face. That's why there were no stars in women's tennis for a while.

 

[janetfan]

I am as honest as I can be. I do not just want to disagree with you by disagreeing with you. Why can't you see that to have a reigning National Junior Champion beat the reigning National Champion is a deservice for the entire US ladies figure skating? It's like women's tennis without Serena Williams. Each grand slam has a new face. That's why there were no stars in women's tennis for a while.

Look, get back to me when you realize comparing Serena and tennis to Ashley and skating is like comparing gold to dirt.

Serena received 2.1 million dollars for winning the US Open.

What did Ashley get for winning the US Ladies Figure Skating championship last season?

I bet it didn;t even cover her expenses.....

But bringing up a comparison between a successful sport and a struggling sport is good....

Now is typically the time to hear from posters who bring on terms like "mission statement" and "for the benefit of participating skaters."

If it is true "the meek shall inherit the earth" isn't it also true "the strong will win skating championships"?

 

[sky_fly20]

^

Ok - a fair point.

Personally I would rather give Americans a chance to see Gracie at SA.

Geez...her name alone....."Gold" brings back memories....

Am I being unfair to Gracie?

It is not my intention....

I think if Americans actually get to see Gracie they might show a bit of enthusiasm again for figure skating.

Gold has the IT factor, but they are letting her get competition
surely I don't think it would have been wise for both Ashley and Gracie competing in SA
not to mention one might miss going to GPF for that matter

 

[janetfan]

^




Gold has the IT factor, but they are letting her get competition
surely I don't think it would have been wise for both Ashley and Gracie competing in SA
not to mention one might miss going to GPF for that matter

We have different ideas about what is wise.
No big deaL.....

 

[MoonlightSkater]

I am as honest as I can be. I do not just want to disagree with you by disagreeing with you. Why can't you see that to have a reigning National Junior Champion beat the reigning National Champion is a deservice for the entire US ladies figure skating? It's like women's tennis without Serena Williams. Each grand slam has a new face. That's why there were no stars in women's tennis for a while.

If both Gracie and Ashley do well on the Grand Prix, which is certainly everyone's hopes, then there'll be a bit more hype by the time they do compete. Ideally, though not necessarily likely, they'd face off at the Grand Prix Final. Regardless, they'll face off at nationals. Why would it be a disservice for US Figure Skating for Gold to beat Wagner? They have to skate against each other some time. Good competition is usually a service to the skater as it gives them incentive to improve.

US Figure Skating usually tends to spread the assignments out among their top skaters, and usuallly only one of the top three will be in any given Grand Prix before the final. That way they have the most opportunities to qualify for the final. Additionally, the national champion is almost always at Skate America. If they consider Gracie the next best skater or the third best skater, it's unlikely they'd send her to Skate America to have to battle for points with Ashley. It makes complete sense to me. Why don't we wait to see who wins nationals this year at the senior level before deciding if Gracie should get better treatment than the current national champion?

 

[Bluebonnet]

Look, get back to me when you realize comparing Serena and tennis to Ashley and skating is like comparing gold to dirt.

Serena received 2.1 million dollars for winning the US Open.

What did Ashley get for winning the US Ladies Figure Skating Gold last season?

I've realized that it is the "dirt" that you love and spent time on the most.

 

[janetfan]

I've realized that it is the "dirt" that you love and spent time on the most.

Brilliant reply dear. Thanks for sharing your humor with the forum.

BTW, gardening is a serious hobby of mine - I love good dirt.....but am not silly enough to think a comparison between Serena and Ashley would do anything but make US Skating look exceptionaly feeble.

Uh-oh - am I too negative?

Consider this - I remember when skaters like Peggy, Janet and Dorothy made much more than tennis players - male or female.
I remember when skaters captured the imagination of the American public - and yes, they were stars!

This is what I grew up with - and yes, it makes me sad that no one knows or cares about skating anymore in USA. :disapp:


If I had a nickel for every post I read at GS that said "America has no stars - that's why skating is struggling"- I would have beaucoups nickels.

My opinion is that Gracie is not being handled any better than Mirai was by US Skating.

Skating stars don't grow on trees. When there is a chance to have one it needs to be maximized - especially by a federation struggling to maintain public interest and fan support.

 

[R.D.]

Skating stars don't grow on trees. When there is a chance to have one it needs to be maximized - especially by a federation struggling to maintain public interest and fan support.

The flip side of this - the other extreme if you will - is pre-anointing skaters before they have a chance to show any real results. Now, have we seen this happen anywhere before? :think:

 

[janetfan]

The flip side of this - the other extreme if you will - is pre-anointing skaters before they have a chance to show any real results. Now, have we seen this happen anywhere before? :think:

Your favorite - Kimmie Meisner comes to mind.....
But I don't see how giving her every chance hurt her career.

I did say in my previous post "maximizing" when I should have said "nurturing and maximizing"

I don't think Mirai was either nurtured or maximized after Vancouver.

But hey - part of it depends on the skater......

Hiding Gracie and keeping her out of SA in the name of "GPF strategy" feels downright STUPID to me.

Part of it is timing - it's not Gracie or US Skating's fault that Sochi is next season.

But if I had any say in this I would be looking at Gracie as a potential STAR and would want her at a struggling Skate America.

Do you disagree? If so , why? I love serious replies..... :yes:

 

[R.D.]

Your favorite - Kimmie Meisner comes to mind...

Ok...for the millionth time:

SHE IS NOT MY FAVORITE!

Got it? Good.

Now, as for Gold, I already see the hype starting to build, so if she delivers on results, have no fear...she WILL be promoted endlessly. In fact, you may even get sick of hearing about her.

 

[janetfan]

Ok...in case you didn't understand the last 50 times I told you, I'll say it a 51st time:

SHE IS NOT MY FAVORITE!

Got it? Good.

Now, as for Gold, I already see the hype starting to build, so if she delivers on results, have no fear...she WILL be promoted endlessly. In fact, you may even get sick of hearing about her.

Sorry - as my posts about the CoP prove - I am a slow leaner.

But what in the world are you talking about :think:
Are you talking about hype on skating boards - or something more like seeing Dorothy on a Clairol TV commercial 2-3 times a night?

Quite frankly I don't think you have a clue about marketing, and exposure vs over-exposure.

RD, I assure you I have never ......and will never get sick of hearing about a star skater.
Then again, I grew up with Peggy, Janet and Dorothy who were stars and sporting icons in USA.

Sadly, your experience is much different.

But I hope it changes in the future as I know you really care about skating.

Can you expound on how you would handle Gracie?

Yes - I am asking for some original thoughts ,,,,this is not a trick question




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