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- Mar 18, 2013
And yet, wasn't this vaunted IJS supposed to FIX reputation judging and other forms of corrupt judging? I thought this system was supposed to cure Figure Skating. Obviously, someone has sold us all a bill of goods. IJS is crap.
Chan: I truly believe I deserved to win
- Thread starter sapphiresky
- Start date
And yet, wasn't this vaunted IJS supposed to FIX reputation judging and other forms of corrupt judging? I thought this system was supposed to cure Figure Skating. Obviously, someone has sold us all a bill of goods. IJS is crap.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
No, I don't think so. I think the purpose of the IJS was to make it more difficult to spot cheating. I am not sure whether it succeeded in this goal or not.
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- Jan 25, 2013
Not true, several Canadians said Plushenko should have won, including Elvis Stojko.
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- Mar 18, 2013
LOL, I think it has... since almost no one but us ubers watch skating anymore, almost no one catches (or cares) about the cheating!
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
No, it doesn't. It means it was fully rotated and then deductions were applied accordingly. I think it's fair to say all deductions were fairly applied to Chan.
Chan was far from perfect but he did enough to win. Less people seem to be outraged about the Germans' silver (since the Canadians URed their 3S, just like Ten downgraded to a 2-2, costing a higher placement), when they arguably had as many mistakes as Chan.
Nobody seems to be outraged that Asada and Kostner were placed ahead of Li in the freeskate, even though she was much cleaner than both of them.
Ten had a clean FS, which won him the FS, but it wasn't enough to win overall. Period.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2003
Sounds like Chan needs attention and wants to correct his admittion about wrong win. Damage was done and repair is visible.
He had the task and he failed to accomplish it in London. He should live with it and stop whining.
He had a chance in Vancouver to be the first Canadian men with gold, he lost it. Now its time for Plushenko, Ten, Amodio, Fernandes, Hanyu.. Chan needs to learn from Plushenko how to be patient.
He had the task and he failed to accomplish it in London. He should live with it and stop whining.
He had a chance in Vancouver to be the first Canadian men with gold, he lost it. Now its time for Plushenko, Ten, Amodio, Fernandes, Hanyu.. Chan needs to learn from Plushenko how to be patient.
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- Mar 18, 2013
Which is a problem in IJS. I'm sorry, there are two phases in this competition. Chan absolutely bombed one. Also, you act as though Ten came from 12th place to win the free. He was just behind Chan after the Short, having skated extremely well. Chan's jumps even in the short were labored and from my view, didn't look to be seven points clear of Ten. You shouldn't be able to win a competition in the Short Program, but time and time again, Chan proves us wrong, and in so doing, exposes the massive flaws in this judging system.
Also, people are outraged because this is consistently a problem with Chan, more-so than ANY other skater in the world today. His last 2 world championships are suspect at best, and at worst, they are frauds.
Skating is not all TES. When it comes to PCS scores, the Germans have it by a mile. D/R are still rough around the edges and do not skate with the finesse of the Germans.
Clean, yes. But Li was rather slow, her jumps were small and she skated with little expression. She just isn't in the same league with Asada and Kostner. Li got higher TES than Gold and Wagner, but her PCS scores were lower, so she placed below the two US ladies---and that was correct.
Chan's falls were very clumsy. His entry into both jumps was bad and he ended up on his a**. 8.96 for transitions with two spectacular failures? When Chan delivers a subpar performance, he shouldn't be getting the same high PCS scores he gets for a decent one. Chan 'won' by 1.3 points, and basically because of inflated PCS scores.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Okay... so you're saying because the Germans/Kostner/Asada have much better quality skating than Canadians/Li, "miles ahead" if you will, then it's justified giving them enough PCS in spite of errors to be placed ahead of them? (Keeping in mind a clean Ten was placed ahead of an errant Chan in the FS, unlike the cleaner Canadians/Li being placed ahead of the errant Germans/Kostner/Asada.) Ten doesn't skate with the finesse of Chan, nor is his speed or choreography "in the same league" as Chan (much like you said about the Canadians with respect to the Germans, or Li with respect to Kostner/Asada - which I agree with). I'm just saying that if you're justifying the Germans/Kostener/Asada's higher placement as a result of being better all-around skaters/having better programs, in spite of making errors, why does the buck stop when it comes to comparing Chan's program to Ten's?
His transitions going into his jumps are still difficult. The landing of the jump wasn't a result of his transitions being performed poorly, if anything they added to the jump's difficulty, so he should still be credited for incorporating those transitions. The only thing that should drop is his transitions going out of the jumps because he generally performs his jumps with some transition afterwards, so yes, that should be reduced, but it's not like Ten had transitions going into and out of all his clean jumps.
I acknowledge Chan's PCS was inflated, but do you or anyone here think Ten got inflated PCS scores over either of the two segments? Like, you think he deserved better interpretation and choreography in his freeskate than Takahashi, as the scores show?
hwell:- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
All very true, but many inflated GOEs as well, not just PCS. Ten also was way undermarked in PCS in the SP (LP was probably about right).
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- Jun 16, 2010
I acknowledge Chan's PCS was inflated, but do you or anyone here think Ten got inflated PCS scores over either of the two segments? Like, you think he deserved better interpretation and choreography in his freeskate than Takahashi, as the scores show?
Ten certainly deserved higher PCS than Takahashi in the LP, and it would have been a disgrace had he not received it given how both skated. D&R had almost the same quota of errors in the LP as the Germans, there is no comparision at all to Chan vs Ten situation. Had Worlds not been in Canada I am pretty sure D&R wouldnt have even been close to beating the Germans, and now way they do beat a clean S&S in the SP, and I am the furthest thing from a fan of S&S there is.
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- Jan 25, 2013
Huh?! Can you explain how D&R had about same quota of errors as the Germans?
D&R's errors were SBS 3S<+2T+2T<, and a bit of a scratchy throw 3Z landing (for which they received mainly 0's but still a 'clean' jump)
S&S turned a 3T-3T sequence into a 2T-2T sequence, turned a 3S into a 2S plus a fall, and had a clear double-foot on the 3A throw
D&R's 3S<+2T+2T< alone (4.11 points) ended up getting almost 3 times the points as both of S&S's SBS jumping passes combined (1.45 points with the fall).
The Germans had superior levels on the lifts, twist and death spiral, but D&R didn't make errors on these (as reflected by positive GOE).
And we can agree to disagree, but Ten's choreography beating out Takahashi's choreography to me is a disgrace, even considering Takahashi's errors. As clean as Ten skated, 87 points is really high PCS - for comparison, it's just two points shy of Fernandez' PCS at Euros where he did 3 quads in a clean skate with a much better choreographed program than Ten.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
ITA. They now use the "regular audience doesn't understand the COP" excuse, except most people who are still watching FS today have gotten accustomed to the system to understand what's going on. The anonymous judging also proves that they don't want cheaters to be identified.
And I don't think that Patrick has to say "I think other skaters did better"- no one expects him to do that. I just wish for some humbleness. Instead of arguing for his scores, he could have simply said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I'm going to work to do better next time.
Sure what he said could be deemed as "honesty", but it shows honestly the type of person he is.
Exactly. It's like it was decided in advance that gold will go to one of those 4 skaters. None of them delivered, but one of them won anyway. And while I see why Ten is not as good of a skater as Chan, I do not think he is much behind Fernandez or Hanuy in program components. Yet, if one of them skated like he did, they'd win. I don't know, it all looks very strange to me. And we actually keep using "reputation" as a reason for someone's higher scores as if it is normal and not against the whole spirit of the sport. I am afraid the system doesn't work the way it was supposed to, but ISU is afraid to admit it.
And I don't find it amusing at all, when somebody lies and when caught, comes with the inevitable - you don't know the rules.
In what sets of rules Chan did a 3A? He didn't rotate and didn't land it. Just because in the protocols there is written 3A and some numbers next to it, doesn't mean he did it.
Yep. The rules are:
1. Patrick Chan is a god on ice even if he falls 3 times (almost nobody agrees with that except crazy fans and canadians)
2. Patrick Chan can not be beaten unless he falls 6 times and a top skater is perfect.
3. When Patrick hits his programs, he deserves 300+.
4. Judges never overscored Patrick's programs.
5. The EVIDENCE that he deserved his title is in the scoring sheets. All those +2 or +3 (except for completely failed elements) and 9 pcs are justified, because the judges always do the right thing.
6. Canadian federation has nothing to do with that, Katelyn Osmond, for example, deserved higher pcs in the LP than Suzuki, even if she fell 2 times.Obviously no favoritism.
I think it´s very naive to believe that any judging system would be able to prevent judges from giving reputation scores. It has always been so and will also be the same in future.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2011
:thumbsup:
I think we can all agree its nothing but inflation from the judges
not to mention Fallmond being overmarked
How things change. During Chan's LP at the Vancouver Olympics, on his very first fall, the British commentator said "there go his chances for A medal." Not just the gold, but for any medal at all, which is the way it ended, of course. I know there were other factors there, but there is some irony to it.
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- Feb 24, 2012
I am not sure I agree with this considering Hanyu's very generous scores this year in the short program. But why the hatred towards Chan (because the general theme is hatred rather than constructive criticism on this web). I hope this doesn't become like SLC? By all this whining and nastiness we just might further nail the coffin on figure skating. Keep it up folks. You will never satisfy uall ofus. Iti s ridiculous the scoring system keeps on changing like the wind. Remember the Base value for jumps has changed The sport will be killed; sadly in the past people knew the 6.0 system but now we have a system that over the years has changed elemens and values like a jump could be worth 4 in the past and now it is like 3.7 yet it is the same jump. Let's hope the "real" world doesn't read this fighting, whining, complaining, hate mongering on these sites.
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