Is Abbott finished?

[KwanIsALegend]

Is he done?
I am inclined to say he is. He's had a good run at least in the U.S., but can't seem to shed his demons and skate well in the international scene.
Thoughts?

 

[karne]

I'm inclined to say yes as well.

Quite apart from everything else, you have to ask the question - does he even deserve another chance? I mean, how many chances are they going to give him to blow before they realise that as good as he is, he always blows it at the big internationals?

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Pains me to say it, but yes, I think so.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Yes.

Abbott seems to have lost some of his amazing abilities, not just big jumps, which he owned a couple of years ago. I don't think he could go anywhere with such skating.

 

[Mathman]

All Jeremy has to do is stop fooling around pretending he has a quad. If he just leaves out the obligatory opening fall and skates to his strengths, he can still win the U.S. title.

 

[zschultz1986]

Is he done, as in being considered as a threat for a national title and world medal (or even a World/Olympic team member)? I'm inclined to say that he is in the twilight of his competitive career. Is it time to stick a fork in him? Absolutely not, unless he has lost his drive and want for competition. The worst thing, which can have far reaching damage, not only in the short term, but in the long term, is to have tons of people tell you "you're done" and have that feeling that people are against you and that you should quit. It's some negative external influences that really, is not necessary.

It's only time to put a fork in him when he wants the fork in him, and not one second before (and that goes for Chan and any other athlete. I may ask him to retire and go away, but he has every right to stay in the sport as long as he wants and is able to be in the sport.)

 

[FSGMT]

I think that we all agree that he doesn't have a quad, at the moment, so (if he wants to keep competing) he has two options:
1) try to skate clean without the quad, focusing on consistency and on his beautiful 3As, receiving high GOEs and PCS; the result would be being in the top3 at nationals (but probably not the champion), and not winning any medal in the GP (maybe some bronze here or there is someone bombs or WD) but surely not in the ISU Championships;
2) work a lot on his quad and hopefully go back to his 2011-2012 form, when he was landing a lot of clean quads in practice and actually landed it at GPF and Nationals: even if he does this, one inconstant quad is not enough to win, given the current layouts (2/3 quads) that all the Men are planning...
So, my answer is yes. Sadly...

 

[Bluebonnet]

The worst thing, which can have far reaching damage, not only in the short term, but in the long term, is to have tons of people tell you "you're done" and have that feeling that people are against you and that you should quit. It's some negative external influences that really, is not necessary.

How different! How biased treatment to different skaters! So when it comes to Abbott, you've suddenly become "rational", so considerable, so understanding. Do different skaters have different class?!

It's only time to put a fork in him when he wants the fork in him, and not one second before (and that goes for Chan and any other athlete. I may ask him to retire and go away, but he has every right to stay in the sport as long as he wants and is able to be in the sport.)

There is no need to seek justification on what you've said about Chan. All skaters deserve the same consideration from other people.

 

[demarinis5]

First of all the title of this thread irks me. That said as to the subject matter we all know that Jeremy has indicated that he will continue to compete
this Olympic season and after that it is pretty much a given that he will retire. So he will be done no need to "stick a fork in it".
Will he actually be competitive with the other elite skaters I don't know I cannot predict the future, but his past 2 seasons
have not been good.

Jeremy can score very well under COP he's got the PC's he just needs to figure out his jump strategy and land them
and I believe he will be able to be competitive this upcoming season. Of course this is just my humble opinion.

 

[Skater Boy]

Well part of me says ones career ends when one says it is ending. I also, this is just me, while it is exciting I prefer those who have shown conositency and worked hard to get the oly medals if the other skater or skaters just finally skated their best at the Oly's. But life isn't fair. Abbott does not appear really to have a quad but neither does Dai really. he can still make the US team though because Rippon, Armin, Evan, Johnny, Aaron and the upcoming juniors either don't have a consistent quad or still developing their skating skills.

 

[phaeljones]

Well part of me says ones career ends when one says it is ending. I also, this is just me, while it is exciting I prefer those who have shown conositency and worked hard to get the oly medals if the other skater or skaters just finally skated their best at the Oly's. But life isn't fair. Abbott does not appear really to have a quad but neither does Dai really. he can still make the US team though because Rippon, Armin, Evan, Johnny, Aaron and the upcoming juniors either don't have a consistent quad or still developing their skating skills.

Agree totally.

Although I understand the sentiment that maybe Abbott should pack it in, this is a skater who had a few quasi-decent years (2008 to 2010), has paid his dues, continues to pay his dues and occasionally lifts himself to putting out a really nice skate. (His GP performance at France this year was really nice to watch, despite the glitches.) He did have a back problem earlier this season and some slack should be given to him for what happened generally. He still has something. The U.S men's singles, and international skating generally, will be richer with his competing, but he has to be smart about it.

 

[pointyourtoe]

It makes me so sad because I think he is the most artistically interesting male skater of the past few years. His Muse program is still one of my favorites.

 

[demarinis5]

It makes me so sad because I think he is the most artistically interesting male skater of the past few years. His Muse program is still one of my favorites.

I loved his Muse program too!

 

[IndependentObserver]

If the judges are still willing to reward Jeremy with high PCS, he's definitely not done yet. As other posters have mentioned, he definitely needs to ditch the quad and focus on skating clean. No one hated on Lambiel much for not doing a 3A at the 2010 Olympics, because his artistry and PCS were superior to many other skaters and he almost landed on the podium. Jeremy is in a similar situation, skate clean, focus on what he does best...rather than attemp quads and throw off the rest of his program.

If he switched up his SP layout and got L4 on all spins and footwork (not sure if he's able to get all spins to a 4)...

3F - 5.30
CCSP4 - 3.20
STSQ 4 - 3.90
3Z + 3T - 11.11x (move to bonus)
3A - 9.35x
FSSP4 - 3.00
CCoSP4 - 3.50

...he could get about 39.36 for TES max without a quad, plus GOE's, plus he could achieve 42 in PCS, scoring in the 80-85+ range

Same for the LP...ditch the quad and be smart about maximizing everything else...(There's probably a better quadless jump layout for more points than my example)

3Z - 6
3F - 5.30
CCSP4 - 3.20
3A + 2t - 9.80
CCOSp4 - 3.50
3A - 9.35x
3Lo + 2t - 7.04
FSSP4 - 3.00
3L + 3T + 2lo - 12.65
2A - 3.63
STSQ4 - 3.90
3S - 4.62
CHsq1 - 2.00

...for a total of 73.99 TES (not counting GOE), plus 85 PCS, puts him in the 160+ range for LP...240+total. That number certainly isn't high enough to beat most quad filled podium contenders who skate cleanly, but a clean maxed out Jeremy skate could garner better GOE points and PCS than a sloppy, quad attempted one...and Olympic nerves may prevent the quad kings from going clean. It certainly worked for Evan in 2010, but I think if Jeremy takes this approach he can be top 6 and end his Olympic career on a high note of skating his best.

And yes, I'm looking forward to seeing Muse again. I couldn't completely concentrate on it live at 2012 Nats, because I was near the 'emergency situation' with his stepdad. Thank goodness everything turned out alright.

 

[demarinis5]

Thank you for the detailed jump layout. And Welcome IndependentObserver to GS!

 

[Bluebonnet]

Jeremy's spins are worse than he had back in 2010. His other jumps besides quad are getting insecure too.:disapp:

 

[merrywidow]

I don't think he'll make the Olympic team myself but that doesn't mean he shouldn't continue to compete & try for another shot at it. If he wants his jumps back then he'd do well to consider returning to Tom Zakrajsck but I don't see that happening either.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I really hate thread titles with this vernacular. It really seems petty and classless, especially for a skater of Jeremy's grace and calibre, to say he's done/finished/stick a fork in him. Athletes train really hard and whether they end their career on a high or choose to keep competing is something that should be on their own terms.

That being said, I think Jeremy can still make the US team, but without a quad he has no shot at the podium. Unlike 2010 where a quad in the SP was a nice thing to have, now it's practically mandatory.

As far as him pulling 80-85 points, I think he can hit around 88 with a clean program with no quad. I mean, he got 80 points at WTT with a fall and no quad in his SP. But unlike 2010 with Lysacek, he has to be perfect to get into the top 5... needs a quad if he wants to hit the podium.

In regards to Daisuke not having a clean quad, he still gets excellent PCS and with a decent skate, he can still win, even with no quad or a fall on his quad. Jeremy won't be afforded the same. It's interesting though to note that even with all the errors in the LP, Abbott was still given PCS of 83.5, almost 10 points higher than Max (who had about the same errors, but at least did quads). I think Jeremy can make the US team if he plays it safe and puts out clean programs, but will need the quad for a shot at the Olympic podium. It's hard to say... a lot can happen over a summer. I had initially counted out Weir, but last season although he fared poorly, he still showed that he could land 3As and come close to landing quads.

 

[IndependentObserver]

Thank you for the detailed jump layout. And Welcome IndependentObserver to GS!

Thanks for the welcome! Longtime lurker, firsttime poster.

I agree with Candadian Skater Guy. If Jeremy had much worse results the last few years and been 'dumped' by the judges as they say, then we'd be having a different conversation. Jeremy receives some of the highest PCS marks and hasn't really skated a clean LP since 2010 US Nats. However, he narrowly missed the GPF last season...he almost won gold at TEB...I think the back to back triple axels really hurt him, which he later changed.

The thread title is really not fair or accurate.

I was being conservative with my scoring estimate, but yeah an 88 quadless SP isn't out of reach.

Even if Jeremy doesn't have the quads, his artistic mark is head and shoulders above the younger guys with quads. Yes he mostly likely won't reach the podium in Sochi without a quad, but the young bucks with quads probably won't either because of PCS marks. I know there's the 'send them anyway for experience' school of thought, but if they lose their cool and their jumps, they have nothing to fall back on either.

Here's hoping for an outstanding Olympic year from all the skaters.

Not to thread drift...any thoughts on which GP's Abbott will get this fall? I'm thinking Cup of China and TEB or NHK and Rostelecom. He won't get Skate America...Skate Canada possibly, but not likely.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Not to thread drift...any thoughts on which GP's Abbott will get this fall? I'm thinking Cup of China and TEB or NHK and Rostelecom. He won't get Skate America...Skate Canada possibly, but not likely.

I'm thinking he should stay away from Skate Canada - Chan and one of Fernandez or Hanyu will likely be there, which could compromise making the GPF for him. Skate America would be a great place to start, he'd have home crowd support and he could also show up Miner or Aaron, and increase his stock to be on the Olympic team. NHK is a risk, with at least two strong Japanese skaters competing (of Takahashi/Mura/Hanyu/Machida/Kozuka), and Reynolds quite likely competing there too -- Miner might go since he's done well there, so arguably it could be a shot for Abbott to defeat Miner, but he still won't win and there are many threats to jeopardize even making the podium. If I were to predict (as all of these are predictions, of course), his best bets are TEB/CoC/CoR. TEB was easy points for any of the men last season (I'm thinking Chan should go there) and CoC wasn't particularly competitive either. I guess we'd have to see the GP assignments though.