- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
That's what I mean. That can happen to anyone. There are no guarantees.
What would podium in Sochi be if Kostner, Asada, and Kim all go clean
- Thread starter pangtongfan
- Start date
That's what I mean. That can happen to anyone. There are no guarantees.
What's your problem? Reread the OP.
Just pointing out the inconsistent logic within your own post. It's logical that you don't give credit for a level 4 layback to either Kostner or Kim, since they're not attempting it anymore. But one can't suspend their disbelief enough (your words) to believe that Kostner is going to attempt a 3F/3T in the SP at the Olympics. She hasn't had any clean flip in the SP at 2011, 2012, or 2013 Worlds.
What is your problem?
Kostner or Kim are incapable of level 4 layback.
Kostner is capable of 3F/3T.
Kostner hasn't had any clean flip in the SP in 2011 2012 2013 because she hasn't done a flip in the SP in forever. She's capable of doing a clean flip.
There's no rocket science nuance to what I said. Just read again.
If Yuna skates a clean program she will win by at least 15 points -- no matter what.
1) She won't be going off early in the SP and getting underscored because of it.
2) Even if Kostner or any other lady skated clean, it would not even erase half of the 21 point difference from the last competition.
If Yuna skates clean, it does not matter what the other skaters do. She will win by 15 points or more, depending on how bad the others mess up.
/thread /wishing /trolling
1) She won't be going off early in the SP and getting underscored because of it.
2) Even if Kostner or any other lady skated clean, it would not even erase half of the 21 point difference from the last competition.
If Yuna skates clean, it does not matter what the other skaters do. She will win by 15 points or more, depending on how bad the others mess up.
/thread /wishing /trolling
A clean 7 triple Caro is fantasy.
A clean 8 triple Mao is even more of a fantasy- it's just delusional.
Doesn't mean they can't happen. However, they are both unlikely.
Now a clean 7 triple Yuna... that has almost happened, it was almost reality.
Remember, I mean, how can we forget, as if Yuna had never jumped one before. Yuna has done the loop- 2007 CoR LP. She had a forward landing on her 2nd lutz, but was otherwise clean. She did a nice loop after her 3f-3t. So a Yuna loop is not a fantasy, she has jumped it before, and possibly still has it in her repertoire.
Now it's unlikely that she'll bring it for 2013-2014. We will not see it.
Yet, much of this thread was about "alternate universe" situations. A clean 7 triple Caro is a very big if. Mao simply does not have a lutz- but hey, if you want to count it as a triple, go ahead. And going clean with her "8" triple program? Whatever.
Yes, we can daydream. But what if Yuna did bring her loop back and was 7 triple clean...if you are a Mao or Caro fan, you do not ever want that to happen. It almost happened. If it does happen now(assuming she maintains her 2013 worlds form), a podium gold is 100% guaranteed for her. Any discussion of "unfairness" is just crying if you're not her fan, or just plain dislike her- just suck it up and hope that it never happens.
A clean 8 triple Mao is even more of a fantasy- it's just delusional.
Doesn't mean they can't happen. However, they are both unlikely.
Now a clean 7 triple Yuna... that has almost happened, it was almost reality.
Remember, I mean, how can we forget, as if Yuna had never jumped one before. Yuna has done the loop- 2007 CoR LP. She had a forward landing on her 2nd lutz, but was otherwise clean. She did a nice loop after her 3f-3t. So a Yuna loop is not a fantasy, she has jumped it before, and possibly still has it in her repertoire.
Now it's unlikely that she'll bring it for 2013-2014. We will not see it.
Yet, much of this thread was about "alternate universe" situations. A clean 7 triple Caro is a very big if. Mao simply does not have a lutz- but hey, if you want to count it as a triple, go ahead. And going clean with her "8" triple program? Whatever.
Yes, we can daydream. But what if Yuna did bring her loop back and was 7 triple clean...if you are a Mao or Caro fan, you do not ever want that to happen. It almost happened. If it does happen now(assuming she maintains her 2013 worlds form), a podium gold is 100% guaranteed for her. Any discussion of "unfairness" is just crying if you're not her fan, or just plain dislike her- just suck it up and hope that it never happens.
Kostner is capable of doing a clean flip. She doesn't attempt it in the SP by choice. Now, why does she make that choice? I don't know, but whatever reasons that led to her not attempting it in the past mean that I think she's not likely to be attempting it in the future.
*shrug* I suggest you go back and read your own original post again. All I was doing was pointing out your own inconsistency in how you set up your fantasy scenario. No need to insult others.
No, I'm saying that a clean Yuna is that much better than everyone else. She's proven she can put on some of the greatest performances of all time.
Now, if someone is a fan of another skater, dislikes Yuna winning all the time, or whatever ... perhaps they should be more realistic and think:
1) Yuna could make mistakes, and another skater skates better than her, and wins
or
2) Other skaters need to improve and become better than her (if possible)
Instead, this entire thread is just filled with fantasy. Imagine this scenario:
Yuna skates as good as 2009 WC's, 2010 Olympics, 2013 WC's ... receiving the highest scores in history and regardless of era are considered among the best figure skating performances of all time.
In this thread, most of the replies are essentially saying that if she repeated those all-time great performances, she would lose to Kostner or Asada because they are "better" than her.
You don't have an argument when you don't have any evidence. If there's some kind of shame or controversy connected to a skater winning by being clean across both segments and having the best combination of cleanest skates and most difficult content across both segments, then there is no such thing as a deserved winner then.
There's nothing stopping Carolina or Mao getting a "grossly inflated" score of their own by going clean. Oh, Yu-na got too many points? Carolina and Mao got personal bests for FS performances which had multiple errors. Carolina's 3T/3T should've been downgraded in the SP but wasn't, so she got silver instead of the bronze. Mao had errors on every single jumping pass in the SP and more errors on 4 out of 7 jumping passes in the FS. She was quite generously scored with those mistakes. Yes, Mao absolutely would've scored higher without those mistakes. Yes, Carolina absolutely would've scored even higher without her mistakes. Just take away the negative GOE and give them +GOE to start. Then they would earn base value that they lost from popped jumps/URs. That's the evidence to think that they would've gotten a sky high score if they had gone clean given how highly they score with so many mistakes. But they weren't clean.
You single out the only ladies medalist who didn't make major errors, the one who unquestionably deserved her spot on top of the podium. You sling the nastiest remarks against her scores. So black is white and white is black for you. I suppose if you don't like the reality of the situation and can't accept it, the only option left is to come up with lies and believe that judges are cheating and unfair because your own favorite skaters didn't win, and argue that there's something "shameful" about the skater who did win. That's just delusional.
sums up 99% of this thread!
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
My argument was deleted by less than couple of hours ago, probably because I hit someone-with-power's nerves when I pointed out the lack of prooves. For the same reason I cannot have any idea how long this my post post will survive.
It's not. It's 21 points gap at the recent Worlds. And what is your data assuming that using the admin panel cannot count as the one
. Then prove it. Based on WC results. How would Asada could cover 22 points gap if she went clean. She wouldn't. That's the point of the shameless Yunaflation that CoP allows to exist.
Same ranting here. Don't follow your idol's lack of intelligence and have balls to actually present your evidence instead of pushing the report button. I am asking you again, you and all other Yuna fans- how would Caro or Mao could possibely close the gap of 21 points with Yuna if they go clean. Your addition and calculation?
You can't be serious. There's no way to compare Plu fandom with Yuna's one. We dealt with what we had to deal, no matter how many 50 pages or somesuch it took us . Here I see a bunch of whiners who can't deal with opponents and who beg for moderation to back up (delete the relevant posts). Pathetic. 
I think she will re-include it in the SP for the Olympic season. She surprised a lot of people last season by uping her technical ante and re-including both 3lz and 3f3t. Let's be honest, hardly anyone thought she would be able to do that and she did it successfully.
I think her plan after the injury was to reinclude those jumps step by step (after all, she was not allowed to do the flip and lutz for a long time) and I believe she will have the 3f3t back in the SP by the Olympics. I also think that she will have a different and more difficult free program layout. Of course, this is just speculation, but I would not count her out. Out of the big 3 ladies, she is the one who has the most room to play around with her layout at this point. Mao has pretty much already maxed it out by attempting that 8 triple program. Yuna is limited by not doing the loop (which of course she could also re-include but I doubt she will). Carolina is the one who is slowly but surely upgrading and she still has plenty of room to add more difficulty. I don't know, it just seems to me that this was all part of the plan for her and her coach.
I guess we will have to wait and see what these ladies come up with for the Grand Prix. I am really excited to have them competing against each other!
In the meantime, I hope this thread doesn't go into more of a bashing/trolling direction. We should all be grateful to have those ladies competing for one more season.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think it was more the part about skaters' "lack of intelligence" that sent up a red flag. Kim has parlayed a few tricks on the ice into an empire worth tens of millions of $US. I wish I was that dumb.
It's not. It's 21 points gap at the recent Worlds. And what is your data assuming that using the admin panel cannot count as the one.
...Then prove it. Based on WC results. How would Asada could cover 22 points gap if she went clean. She wouldn't. That's the point of the shameless Yunaflation that CoP allows to exist.
Here is Mao's LP, performed flawlessly.
3A +2 10.50
3F+3T +2 10.50
3Lz +1 7.4
3Lo+2Lo +2 8.3
FCCoSp4 4.5
2A+3T 9.54
3S +2 6.02
CCoSp4 3.86
3F+2Lo+2Lo 11.19
FCSp4 3.30
StSq4 5.40
ChSq 3.60
TES 83.11
SS 9.50
Tr 9.25
P/E 9.50
CH 9.50
INT 9.50
PCS 76.60
TSS 159.71 -- 25.34 points higher than her actual performance
Can Mao actually perform at this level? Well, this is a fantasy thread. But it's all up to her. :yes:
She absolutely could re-include it--it's possible. It's the Olympic year, all skaters attempt to up the ante. However, this is Carolina's last shot at an Olympic medal. If she wasn't able to successfully pull off a 3T/3T, 3Lo at the last Worlds--then I'm a little skeptical that she'd make her SP layout that much harder for the Olympics. Actually, she didn't go clean in the SP at any of the last three Worlds, right? Given that the Olympic pressure is 100x more tougher than what it is at Worlds, it's asking a lot. It's more important that Kostner go clean in the SP with whatever layout that she chooses so that she stays in medal contention.
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