Mao's new SP!!

[thinspread]

It’s a lovely piece of music and pretty skating on surface. The music is fairly complex in its own dimension, but the skating program is of elevator-music quality. Oddly, I somehow find her performance to it and the last season’s SP to I Got Rhythm to be in a similar vein, in interpretive depth and projection – with the difference being, of course, one is lyrical and the other playful.

She had success with her previous Nocturne and apparently is comfortable with skating to this type of music. That’s not a bad choice for the Olympic season. But in hindsight, I think her greatest chance to expand her range and depth was with the works of T Tarasova. I may belong to a minority, but I considered her Bells of Moscow as one with potential to be a superb program. Lori Nichol never has ventured into that possibility with Asada, playing it safe.

 

[cooper]

Funny that Dave/Jenny is brought up in regards to Yuna's arm movements, because I remember reading not so praiseworthy comments from them when it came to those choreographed movements in her Les Miz program. But as Mathman suggested, it didn't really matter what she skated to at Worlds at the end of the day.

i think they praised her for her arm movements but they are indifferent with the choreography.. two different things you know..

 

[TheCzar]

It’s a lovely piece of music and pretty skating on surface. The music is fairly complex in its own dimension, but the skating program is of elevator-music quality. Oddly, I somehow find her performance to it and the last season’s SP to I Got Rhythm to be in a similar vein, in interpretive depth and projection – with the difference being, of course, one is lyrical and the other playful.

She had success with her previous Nocturne and apparently is comfortable with skating to this type of music. That’s not a bad choice for the Olympic season. But in hindsight, I think her greatest chance to expand her range and depth was with the works of T Tarasova. I may belong to a minority, but I considered her Bells of Moscow as one with potential to be a superb program. Lori Nichol never has ventured into that possibility with Asada, playing it safe.

No, not alone. Most of her pieces with Tarasova were actually my favourites. Ballade, Swan Lake, Fantasia, Bells, Scheherazade, Claire de Lune, Caprice, Por Una (my god, all of them save two!) and the Olympic SP to Masquerade are definitely in my Asada top ten. As far as Lori's work is concerned, the only time she explored anything remotely new with Mao was with Czardas (Czardas, Liebestraume and Fantasie Impromptu were the peak of Nichol's work for Mao IMO). However in saying that, I think Mao has actually had a lot more great programs than bad. The dichotomy of TT and LN was the what brought out the magic out of Asada's skating.

 

[Nadia01]

Of course they can, and many are capable of managing more including herself in the past.
In any case I am not convinced this is really the music to her choreography (or the other way round) due to the out of sync factor.

OS--

You are incorrect about the last point.

She did skate to Nocturne. It says so in Japanese on the video (whoever taped it put that in there in the actual video itself...most likely some TV studio)

The person who uploaded the video stripped the original sound & put the music track over it to get rid of the commentators' chatter

 

[Nadia01]

Compared to the other nocturnes he composed, they aren't as noticeable. Nor to other more dramatic pieces where the highs and lows are more obvious. In my opinion, the piece itself is lovely but less interesting than other Chopin pieces. Mao made it memorable with her performance of it back in 2006. Choreographically speaking, I prefer the original but I feel her recent performances are much more nuanced and she is feeling the music more. In 2006, her performance was carried by the superb choreography of the program, whereas now I feel it is other way around.

And I have to disagree with your assessment of her understanding of the music. Her style might not suit some types of music, but when it comes to Chopin, they are a perfect match. Also, this is not an easy piece to skate well to for the reasons stated above and I think she managed to do it almost to perfection back in 2006. I'm not sure if anyone else could have done it better. Of course, since Mao is the only skater I can remember skating to this piece in recent memory, it is hard to compare. But until I see a better performance to this piece of music, I consider this to be her signature piece.

I'm stunned that you think this is "less interesting." It's one of the most lovely pieces of music ever composed for piano performance. It is an incredibly memorable piece, and Mao didn't do anything to make it more memorable since it's not like she'd chosen some really obscure piece by Chopin.

Also her style is not perfect for "Chopin" as you say. Chopin was one of the most versatile and sensitive composer of his era with a great range of sensitivity and emotion throughout his compositions. Mao's range is rather narrow -- in that she can do bright and/or soft, which is insufficient for Chopin.

 

[minze]

Uber fans of a certain skaters have such a double standards. If someone remotely says something about their favorite in any thread they all get together to accuse the person of being a hater or defend their favorite skater. But they have no problem coming to a Mao thread to insult her program artistry an so on.... And to make a thread about Mao Asada about their favorite skater and how brilliant she is.... how no one will ever compare....

Here me out, I am not trying to censor anyone this is a message board and everyone is entitle to their opinion. But, the double standard is such that if someone did that in a thread about their favorite skater it would not go well for that poster.

People have been accused of being haters by not agreeing that their favorite skater is the best technically, artistically and the best skater who ever lived.

BTW, before I am accused of being a hater of the One look me up I have never said anything negative about her because I really like her.

 

[Nadia01]

No, not alone. Most of her pieces with Tarasova were actually my favourites. Ballade, Swan Lake, Fantasia, Bells, Scheherazade, Claire de Lune, Caprice, Por Una (my god, all of them save two!) and the Olympic SP to Masquerade are definitely in my Asada top ten. As far as Lori's work is concerned, the only time she explored anything remotely new with Mao was with Czardas (Czardas, Liebestraume and Fantasie Impromptu were the peak of Nichol's work for Mao IMO). However in saying that, I think Mao has actually had a lot more great programs than bad. The dichotomy of TT and LN was the what brought out the magic out of Asada's skating.

I think Tarasova did a lot to push Mao into another direction. I'm not sure if it really worked, but I appreciate the experiment. Claire de Lune is a gorgeous program, and I really liked Masquerade (Oly version, obviously). (It probably helps that it's one of my favorite pieces w/ lovely highs & lows.)

I'm conflicted about Lori tho.

 

[yyyskate]

... I would argue that there's no need for a beatific smile, no need for excessive arm movements; she should sell the program on nothing but the beauty of her lines and her skating. Her 2006-07 program did just that with moves like the spirals, the choreography around her Lutz and her 2A, and the twizzle at the end of her footwork. That's why I like it more than her current version.

Well said. totally agree :thumbsup: But I have different opinion regarding Yuna and Carolina. Yuna has the best arm movements in the business does not mean she interprets her program only using her arms or her choreography only involves arm moves (her arm moves are exquisite never overdone). Yuna is known for difficult transitions. And in all her programs, there's always large amount of upper/lower body dance moves as well as blade work (deep edge, on one leg.etc). she always uses her body as a whole, transitioning centre of gravity throughout her skating (usually at a very high speed). IIRC, there's never a moment that she completely stood still on ice. Even moments like that, usually serve well to the purpose of choreography.
As for Carolina's Bolero, yes, there are some hip-shaking etc. moves that people dont like, But, Bolero as a dance form really consists of those moves and Carolina really did a great job transforming Bolero dance spirit onto the ice. Here is a link about Bolero dance.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSeIea6oZ48

 

[CarneAsada]

I'm stunned that you think this is "less interesting." It's one of the most lovely pieces of music ever composed for piano performance. It is an incredibly memorable piece, and Mao didn't do anything to make it more memorable since it's not like she'd chosen some really obscure piece by Chopin.

Also her style is not perfect for "Chopin" as you say. Chopin was one of the most versatile and sensitive composer of his era with a great range of sensitivity and emotion throughout his compositions. Mao's range is rather narrow -- in that she can do bright and/or soft, which is insufficient for Chopin.

It's amazing how pieces suddenly become the greatest works of art in their genre with such elaborate backstories when Mao chooses to skate to them, or you'd think greatest works given the way we never hear the end of just how much Mao fails to do her new music justice. Also, Chopin most sensitive and versatile? Sensitive perhaps, versatile a thousand times no. Chopin was pretty much a piano-only composer (if you listen to his concerti you will notice his orchestral writing is quite weak), and his early works while pretty are not particularly interesting. You can find more interesting Chopin in pretty much anything op. 20 and up. As for only being able to do bright or soft, I suppose I'd direct you to Mao's Bells of Moscow or Fantasia but you presumably have some problem with both? If something like Nocturne op.9/2 can be turned into Greatest of All Time I guess a trifle like the Rach prelude can too.

 

[Krislite]

Uber fans of a certain skaters have such a double standards. If someone remotely says something about their favorite in any thread they all get together to accuse the person of being a hater or defend their favorite skater. But they have no problem coming to a Mao thread to insult her program artistry an so on.... And to make a thread about Mao Asada about their favorite skater and how brilliant she is.... how no one will ever compare....

Here me out, I am not trying to censor anyone this is a message board and everyone is entitle to their opinion. But, the double standard is such that if someone did that in a thread about their favorite skater it would not go well for that poster.

People have been accused of being haters by not agreeing that their favorite skater is the best technically, artistically and the best skater who ever lived.

BTW, before I am accused of being a hater of the One look me up I have never said anything negative about her because I really like her.

Oh, please. Take any Yuna-related thread around here and you'll see plenty of whining about generic choreography, unpointed toes, lack of facial expressions, overscoring, cheating, etc. to the point where some members have gotten banned. Mao-related threads are very tame by comparison.

 

[yyyskate]

....Chopin was one of the most versatile and sensitive composer of his era with a great range of sensitivity and emotion throughout his compositions. ...

That's why I'm wondering what if Yuna do a Chopin.... Sadly, perhaps, never gonna happen...

 

[deedee1]

Has the 'dreadful' Olympic season started, you guys? :disapp: Then it's time for me to AGAIN avoid visiting either Mao - or YuNa-related threads in The Edge for months...

But since this is Mao thread, let me write one last sentence: GOOOoooo MAaaaaaOoooo! :yay::yay:

 

[TontoK]

Has the 'dreadful' Olympic season started, you guys? :disapp: Then it's time for me to AGAIN avoid visiting either Mao - or YuNa-related threads in The Edge for months...

Well said. Written. Whatever.

The Edge forum is turning more and more into Fan Fest, only with an ambush feel to it, since threads dedicated to one skater or program or topic get hi-jacked by ubers.

I don't think anyone minds a little occasional topic drift... but PAGES of it?

 

[minze]

Oh, please. Take any Yuna-related thread around here and you'll see plenty of whining about generic choreography, unpointed toes, lack of facial expressions, overscoring, cheating, etc. to the point where some members have gotten banned. Mao-related threads are very tame by comparison.

Please. Not the same degree. Yuna Kim fans outnumber the fans of most skaters in this forum by a lot. I remembered there was a quote about Adam Rippon saying that he never seen Yuna Kim do a clean run through of her program the Yuna Kim fans rush to that thread to set Adam straight. There should be no shame in your game, you defend your favorite skater against any negative comment, but have some decorum and don't turn every thread about Yuna Kim. And by the way I am not talking about you in specific, I just answered you because you responded to my comment. I actually think your comments are never mean spirited towards Mao

 

[FlattFan]

In the future, can we have an option to ignore any posters whose post counts are less than 100?
Posts that exist only to increase post counts should be deleted. I think plenty of bots will be coming in the next few months. I want to read about Mao and Yuna without the bots nonsense.

 

[Krislite]

Me, Three!
As for the comment that TAT did not give Mao good competitive programs, I happen to really love her 2007-08 season's SP by Madame Tarasova. ...since I have no taste in figure skating, either, I guess. Her step sequence is just to die for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GfZW03lM4

Go Mao! :yay:

Well, I did say Tarasova's programs have been a "mixed" bag. That Fantasia SP is the best she's done for Mao, I think, and it's not based on Russian music.

I think these are the best programs Mao has done:

Nocturne SP - Nichol
Fantansie Impromptu LP - Nichol
Claire de Lune SP - Nichol
Lieberstraume LP - Nichol

Yup, all Lori Nichol programs. Yes, Mao has great footwork with her Tarasova programs, but she's always had some of the best footwork regardless, so I wouldn't attribute that to Tat.

 

[aftertherain]

Mao's new Ex "Smile/What a wonderful world" from The ICE 2013:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSWqWV4-pzY

I've never seen her so relaxed and happy in skating...her lightness is coming back here.

Thanks, cohkaix!

Hm. I do like the program, but I think she can certainly do better. I don't really like this version (vocal-wise) of "Smile"--I admit, I was expecting Barbra Streisand or something--but you're right. It's nice to see her happy. Her costumes so far look good, but as we all know, she usually changes them before the season starts. I only hope they're good ones.

I think Tarasova did a lot to push Mao into another direction. I'm not sure if it really worked, but I appreciate the experiment. Claire de Lune is a gorgeous program, and I really liked Masquerade (Oly version, obviously). (It probably helps that it's one of my favorite pieces w/ lovely highs & lows.)

For me, the "problem" with her programs aren't her programs--it's her costumes. They're just so distracting sometimes that I don't really feel like I'm enjoying her performances properly unless she gives it her all. Call me shallow, but it is what I think. I think the only program I haven't liked at all regardless of costume is the "Tango" short program from 2010-2011 season. I loved her take on "Scheherazade" though, as I have mentioned before. The whimsical music suited her and was a different take from all the rest.

And I actually enjoyed "Swan Lake" too, but I really think that Mao wore the costume that Mme. Tarasova always wanted on Sasha Cohen, feathers and all. Sadly, it doesn't seem like Mao has the fashion sense that Sasha had.

Yup, all Lori Nichol programs. Yes, Mao has great footwork with her Tarasova programs, but she's always had some of the best footwork regardless, so I wouldn't attribute that to Tat.

You mean competitive programs, right? She had two very nice exhibition programs from Tarasova. But her "Jupiter/I Vow Thee to My Country" program from Lori Nichol was one of the best.

 

[Krislite]

[...]
You mean competitive programs, right? She had two very nice exhibition programs from Tarasova. But her "Jupiter/I Vow Thee to My Country" program from Lori Nichol was one of the best.

Yes, competitive programs, although if you take exhibition programs into account, it becomes clear that Tarasova+nonRussian music = good Mao programs (e.g., Ballade, Caprice, and Por Una Cabeza).

As for costumes, she definitely could have done better in some cases, but I did like her Scheherazade costume at Worlds 2012.

 

[enzet]

Reading this thread, one might get the impression that Mao is the only one whose artistry is so seriously lacking, while other skaters regularly deliver historically informed and highly artistically compelling performances.

If you want to argue that her interpretation of Chopin is insufficient and lacks emotional depth or proper understanding of the piece measured by the highest artistic standards, I can take it.

But what standards are you holding your own favorite skaters to?

I don’t recall having ever seen a skater's performance that would meet the criteria some of you have described here.
Not Carolina’s, not Michelle‘s, not Yuna‘s, not Sasha‘s...heck not even Takahashi‘s whom I consider to be a skating God personified.

I always find these pseudo-musical or scientific explanations of why one skater is undisputedly superior/inferior to another rather amusing.
In the end, what you are saying is simply „I like this skater better,“ only in a very round-about way that may lead some to believe that your opinion is somehow more valid, while in reality, you may just be more eloquent or have more time on your hands.

Artistry is so subjective and difficult to judge mainly because I think it depends much more on how you personally connect on an emotional level with a particular skater (or a performer in general) than what they actually do. When you recognize something within yourself they have just managed to express, then you feel they have "touched your heart“ with their marvellous artistry and you will probably go at lenghts trying to find some rational justification for your feelings, so that you can educate the moron sitting next to you, who looks totally bored and just doesn’t get it.

Going back to Mao’s Chopin, you may love it, hate it or be completely indifferent to it, but it is ultimately only your own personal perception, not a proof that her SP or her musical interpretation is somehow inferior to what we usually get from top figure skating competitors.

 

[chloepoco]

Reading this thread, one might get the impression that Mao is the only one whose artistry is so seriously lacking, while other skaters regularly deliver historically informed and highly artistically compelling performances.

If you want to argue that her interpretation of Chopin is insufficient and lacks emotional depth or proper understanding of the piece measured by the highest artistic standards, I can take it.

But what standards are you holding your own favorite skaters to?

I don’t recall having ever seen a skater's performance that would meet the criteria some of you have described here.
Not Carolina’s, not Michelle‘s, not Yuna‘s, not Sasha‘s...heck not even Takahashi‘s whom I consider to be a skating God personified.

I always find these pseudo-musical or scientific explanations of why one skater is undisputedly superior/inferior to another rather amusing.
In the end, what you are saying is simply „I like this skater better,“ only in a very round-about way that may lead some to believe that your opinion is somehow more valid, while in reality, you may just be more eloquent or have more time on your hands.

Artistry is so subjective and difficult to judge mainly because I think it depends much more on how you personally connect on an emotional level with a particular skater (or a performer in general) than what they actually do. When you recognize something within yourself they have just managed to express, then you feel they have "touched your heart“ with their marvellous artistry and you will probably go at lenghts trying to find some rational justification for your feelings, so that you can educate the moron sitting next to you, who looks totally bored and just doesn’t get it.

Going back to Mao’s Chopin, you may love it, hate it or be completely indifferent to it, but it is ultimately only your own personal perception, not a proof that her SP or her musical interpretation is somehow inferior to what we usually get from top figure skating competitors.

I think this is the best post in this entire thread!