Lysacek's road to Sochi starts to get serious

[wordsworthgirl]

I must be missing something (have been a bit out of the loop as far as message boards go for the past few years) but I think Evan is a gifted and admirable skater- a great role model for kids actually- because he works so hard and maximizes his talent. And he skated brilliantly to win the Olympics in 2010. He is clearly a very competitive person and wants to do his best even if it means endless repetitions and long practices and I'm sure that is the reason behind both his injuries and his desire to return to the amateur ranks. Shouldn't we admire someone who has to work hard to achieve results? I remember with a shudder the likes of Christopher Bowman and Nicole Bobek, both of whom were said to be the most innately gifted and naturally talented of their era but frittered away years and squandered good results because of inconsistent training, too much partying, and coasting on charisma and talent. I applaud Evan for his hard work and dedication.

 

[Olympia]

This is the thing that makes me admire Evan the most also, Wordsworthgirl.

Frank Carroll seems to be especially happy to have such a student. Remember that he coached Christopher Bowman. As a hardworking coach, Carroll must have had such hopes for Bowman, and it must have burnt him to the core to watch such talent be wasted. By contrast, he can depend absolutely on Evan's commitment. Unfortunately, a combination of factors including probably age and overtraining worked together to put Evan's latest efforts in jeopardy.

 

[Tonichelle]

Actually, I hope Even does do a Sasha. Come to nationals, do your best, graciously accept whatever placement you earn, lay to rest all the negative comments about just pretending in order to keep your name in the news, and give your fans something to cheer about win or lose.

I don't think he's trying to stay in the spotlight. I truly think he believes what he says and wants to make good. I just don't think it's going to happen.

 

[IcyEdges]

Actually, there has been attack and assumption of EL's personal character. If he says he's going to do something, you'd better bet he's going to do it. It's not exactly his fault or in his plans to have gotten hurt the last two fall seasons, nor have the USFS cause a dispute with him over trivial matters.
When there are people saying that they don't believe the injury is real. That's just uncalled for. It's real.
There IS video out there of him skating pre-injury. But it's for anyone that cares to find it to find it. And exactly what would anyone want video of at this point? He hasn't been allowed for at least a week to even be on the ice. So what do you(not you personally) want video of at this point? Him under doctors care? Him icing his injury? What?:scratch:

okeeey this guys kinda crazy..[/QUOTE]

 

[IcyEdges]

Yes, some people are overly critical of a skater just because they don't like the skater. It's also completely legitimate to discuss a skater's chances of a comeback. Saying "There's proof YOU just have to find it" to the naysayers just adds fuel to the fire - why is it hidden? Why can't it just be produced with a simple link?

I was a fan of Lysacek after seeing him skate live in 2005 - I still enjoy his skating and wish him well... but I'm realistic in what I think he can accomplish. Evan's injury prone - whether by body type or over practicing. He has a documented history of it - Frank Carroll has been quoted many times over the years saying as much, and as Evan's coach he is an authority on the subject. No one is bashing him for his work ethic, but they are expressing concern that he is over training. He HAS overtrained and missed major competitions before. This is not something new that people are making up.

Ultimately - he is running out of time. He has not competed in a very long time and all the training in the world and all the medals in the world does not guarantee that you will not be nervous and rusty in your first competition after a long hiatus. Do I believe that Evan could make a comeback - yes, if he'd really gotten serious and started this comeback 2 years ago or even a year ago, he'd be a serious threat IMO. But we've seen a lot of these "last minute" comebacks falter because the skater just "ran out of time." Evan should've booted his "management" the second they had issues with the USFSA, apologized for any hurt feelings his agents created, and skated at least at Nationals if he couldn't make Skate America. This is all Monday morning quarterbacking, but it is what it is.

He actually did. He booted 2 management companies in the quest to deal with the USFS thing.

 

[IcyEdges]

Oh. He hasn't? I believe that Frank Carroll was quoted at the Salt lake City B competition, wondering how they were going to get another event to make the tech minimum for the Olympics, so I just assumed...

Actually, I hope Even does do a Sasha. Come to nationals, do your best, graciously accept whatever placement you earn, lay to rest all the negative comments about just pretending in order to keep your name in the news, and give your fans something to cheer about win or lose.

Actually, Frank wasn't quoted AT the SLC B competition. He was contacted in other ways to get the quote.

 

[ice coverage]

I believe Evan occasional gives sneak previews of his training " in the spirit of twitter". The last one I recall seeing was in late August when he did a beautiful quad.

FWIW, as far as I can see, the verified account of @EvanLysacek does not have any video attached to tweets going back at least as far as March. [His most recent tweet of any kind was on Aug 14.]

https://twitter.com/EvanLysacek/with_replies​

If he himself is the one who tweeted any recent video, he has taken it down.
Maybe you are saying that others who have observed his training -- whoever they might be -- have tweeted video of his training. And maybe one or more vids of his skating at Sun Valley surfaced on social media without his active involvement. I don't claim to know either way whether or not they are out there.
No law says that any skater must serve video of her/his training to the public on a silver platter. Some skaters do; some do not.
Just sayin' that EL is not going to win any gold medals for transparency.

Also ... someone associated with Team Lysacek had leaked information to TSL re Lysacek's eventual withdrawal from the SLC Classic. TSL posted at least one blind item -- days before the official announcement of EL's withdrawal.
We do not know who exactly the leaker was, and whether EL himself had authorized the leak.
But the incident -- whether under EL's personal control or not -- leaves me wondering about Team Lysacek's communication strategy. Seems to me that a perceived lack of straightforwardness is one source of anti-EL sentiment.
I myself do not share that sentiment. OTOH, I cannot blame anyone for being skeptical either.

Doing this to keep his name in the news? ROTFL Do any you really buy into that? THE public does not keep up with skating, and only a very small percentage knows who is who today.

I agree with you in general ... but as Olympic champion, Lysack (rightfully so) has a lot more name recognition than most American skaters.

And some mainstream news outlets did make mention that Weir has ruled out any chance of competing in Sochi. At least one of the newscasts within NBC's Today show yesterday included a brief news tell re Weir, without attaching any plug for NBC's upcoming Sochi broadcasts. And the Today show did not refer to Weir as a voice in the controversy over Russia's anti-gay legislation. The NBC tell was strictly about the decision from Weir the skater.

 

[SkateFan66]

FWIW, as far as I can see, the verified account of @EvanLysacek does not have any video attached to tweets going back at least as far as March. [His most recent tweet of any kind was on Aug 14.]
https://twitter.com/EvanLysacek/with_replies
If he himself is the one who tweeted any recent video, he has taken it down.
Maybe you are saying that others who have observed his training -- whoever they might be -- have tweeted video of his training. And maybe one or more vids of his skating at Sun Valley surfaced on social media without his active involvement. I don't claim to know either way whether or not they are out there.
No law says that any skater must serve video of her/his training to the public on a silver platter. Some skaters do; some do not.
Just sayin' that EL is not going to win any gold medals for transparency.

Also ... someone associated with Team Lysacek had leaked information to TSL re Lysacek's eventual withdrawal from the SLC Classic. TSL posted at least one blind item -- days before the official announcement of EL's withdrawal.
We do not know who exactly the leaker was, and whether EL himself had authorized the leak.
But the incident -- whether under EL's personal control or not -- leaves me wondering about Team Lysacek's communication strategy. Seems to me that a perceived lack of straightforwardness is one source of anti-EL sentiment.
I myself do not share that sentiment. OTOH, I cannot blame anyone for being skeptical either.

I agree with you in general ... but as Olympic champion, Lysack (rightfully so) has a lot more name recognition than most American skaters.

And some mainstream news outlets did make mention that Weir has ruled out any chance of competing in Sochi. At least one of the newscasts within NBC's Today show yesterday included a brief news tell re Weir, without attaching any plug for NBC's upcoming Sochi broadcasts. And the Today show did not refer to Weir as a voice in the controversy over Russia's anti-gay legislation. The NBC tell was strictly about the decision from Weir the skater.

The last time Evan Tweeted training videos was August 2011 (prior to MCL strain). The videos are still on his Who Say account.

With regard to leaked information regarding the current injury, Evan called Grant to let him know that he was injured and could not compete in SLC. (Grant then cancelled his plans to travel to NYC to compete at MA)

 

[ice coverage]

....With regard to leaked information regarding the current injury, Evan called Grant to let him know that he was injured and could not compete in SLC. (Grant then cancelled his plans to travel to NYC to compete at MA)

I was aware that EL notified Hochstein in advance -- and I do think EL deserves credit for this example of good sportmanship.

But I cannot tell why you brought it up in the context of the leak to TSL.
Are you saying that Hochstein's consequent need to cancel at MA had the inevitable side effect of setting tongues wagging? And that other people started putting two and two together? That scenario is sort of plausible to me.
I hope that you are not saying that Hochstein deliberately leaked the EL withdrawal directly to TSL.
I am not 100% sure, but I thought I remembered that TSL referred to an unnamed Toyota source when they posted the blind item about EL's withdrawal. (But maybe I am confusing the words they used for the EL post with the words they used for their Gracie Gold posts.)

 

[Tonichelle]

I am not 100% sure, but I thought I remembered that TSL referred to an unnamed Toyota source when they posted the blind item about EL's withdrawal. (But maybe I am confusing the words they used for the EL post with the words they used for their Gracie Gold posts.)

Not sure what they may have tweeted, but on facebook all they said was that they had information that there was a withdrawl for SLC and one of the alternate US Men's skaters should get ready. Jenny used to be close to Evan, for all we know she knew just because of previous relations - or they have mutual friends and they blabbed.

 

[Icey]

TLC? How do you access that source of news?

 

[Tonichelle]

TSL = The Skating Lesson run by Jenny Kirk and "Aunt Joyce"

 

[SkateFan66]

I was aware that EL notified Hochstein in advance -- and I do think EL deserves credit for this example of good sportmanship.

But I cannot tell why you brought it up in the context of the leak to TSL.
Are you saying that Hochstein's consequent need to cancel at MA had the inevitable side effect of setting tongues wagging? And that other people started putting two and two together? That scenario is sort of plausible to me.
I hope that you are not saying that Hochstein deliberately leaked the EL withdrawal directly to TSL.
I am not 100% sure, but I thought I remembered that TSL referred to an unnamed Toyota source when they posted the blind item about EL's withdrawal. (But maybe I am confusing the words they used for the EL post with the words they used for their Gracie Gold posts.)

No, I am not saying that Grant deliberately leaked the information directly to TSL. However, the more people that know about the injury and WD (Grant, coaches, training partners, etc) the higher probability that the information gets leaked.

Moreover, you previously stated that someone in the "Lysacek camp" leaked the information to TSL. While there is no evidence that the "Lysacek camp" leaked any info to TSL, Evan did disclose the injury to others.

Just because the TSL has a secret Toyota Sports Center Source, that does not mean that the source is part of the "Lysacek camp." Evan was training full time at Toyota Sports Center. I am sure word spread quickly when Evan had to stop training because of the injury (especially given the close proximity to the date of the SLC competition) Skaters talk. Coaches talk.

 

[ice coverage]

Also ... someone associated with Team Lysacek had leaked information to TSL re Lysacek's eventual withdrawal from the SLC Classic. ...We do not know who exactly the leaker was, and whether EL himself had authorized the leak.

No, I am not saying that Grant deliberately leaked the information directly to TSL. However, the more people that know about the injury and WD (Grant, coaches, training partners, etc) the higher probability that the information gets leaked.

Moreover, you previously stated that someone in the "Lysacek camp" leaked the information to TSL. While there is no evidence that the "Lysacek camp" leaked any info to TSL, Evan did disclose the injury to others.

Just because the TSL has a secret Toyota Sports Center Source, that does not mean that the source is part of the "Lysacek camp." Evan was training full time at Toyota Sports Center. I am sure word spread quickly when Evan had to stop training because of the injury (especially given the close proximity to the date of the SLC competition) Skaters talk. Coaches talk.

As Toni points out, maybe I misremembered about TSL referring specifically to a source from Toyota. So maybe my response below is irrelevant, but:

What I said is that someone associated with Team EL leaked to TSL. I understand that not everyone at Toyota is an integral member of Team EL ... but I would say that any Toyota regular is "associated" with Team EL in a looser sense, meaning that they all use the same rink. Even if skaters and coaches are talking amongst themselves (as is only human nature), I guess that I would like to believe that the Toyota regulars would have enough sense and mutual respect not to spill any beans to an entity such as TSL, which obviously is not going to keep them to itself. I do hope/believe that EL treats everyone around him with respect, so it is a shame if others do not reciprocate.​

In any case, glad that you were not implying anything about Hochstein himself.

Regardless of how the leak to TSL happened, my overall opinion remains that Team EL chooses to show relatively little to the public. It is their choice to make. The downside of their choice is that some people who are hungry for updates will extrapolate from the dearth of information and believe the worst.

 

[aftertherain]

TLC? How do you access that source of news?

TSL = The Skating Lesson run by Jenny Kirk and "Aunt Joyce"

The Skating Lesson by Jenny Kirk (best known for her "Chicago" short program and anti-eating disorder articles) and Dave Lease (best known for his "Aunt Joyce" blog).

Just search "The Skating Lesson" on Google. You'll get their official website, Facebook, and Twitter.

 

[Mathman]

Wild horses can't drag anything out of Grant Hochstein. He knew about Michelle Kwan's wedding for weeks (he was invited) but never a peep.

 

[aftertherain]

Wild horses can't drag anything out of Grant Hochstein. He knew about Michelle Kwan's wedding for weeks (he was invited) but never a peep.

How do they know each other anyway?

 

[ice coverage]

Wild horses can't drag anything out of Grant Hochstein. He knew about Michelle Kwan's wedding for weeks (he was invited) but never a peep.

Good reminder, MM. Respect to Hochstein.

aftertherain, Hochstein trains at East West arena, the center of Kwandom. Also does some coaching himself.

Recent GS article about G.H., including a photo with M.K.

http://www.goldenskate.com/2013/08/hochstein/​

IIRC, a schedule conflict (skating-related) prevented him from attending M.K.'s wedding, but what an honor to be invited.

 

[aftertherain]

IIRC, a schedule conflict (skating-related) prevented him from attending M.K.'s wedding, but what an honor to be invited.

Nationals, right?

(And thanks!)

 

[ice coverage]

Just b/c olyphil decided to tweet some hearsay from Frank ... and everyone wants to interpret it their way and flip out. Then again, I know what I know.

Never got around to asking you before, IcyEdges:

- Don't understand how comments from Frank Carroll could be "hearsay." Surely Carroll has direct knowledge of Lysacek's status.
- And are you saying that you know more about Lysacek than Carroll does?
​

Yes, some people are overly critical of a skater just because they don't like the skater. It's also completely legitimate to discuss a skater's chances of a comeback. Saying "There's proof YOU just have to find it" to the naysayers just adds fuel to the fire - why is it hidden? Why can't it just be produced with a simple link? ....

IF Evan is healthy and on the ice at nationals I'll be cheering him on as always ....

:agree:

Nationals, right?

LOL, how soon we forget. No wonder Hochstein chose a little skating competition like Nationals instead of Kwan's wedding.