Since the show skating circuit seems to be almost non-existent (at least in the states) and skating lessons from famous coaches is expensive as all get out, how do skaters stay financially solvent after their skating careers are over? I feel like Yuna or Mao...ok, I understand how they will be fine due to all their endorsements. But for 99% of skaters (even good ones like Ashley Wagner and Adam Rippon), it's not like anyone is really paying them to be figure skaters...in fact, they are the ones paying boatloads of money to their coaches to win tournaments that don't really net them any money. I also assume a lot of these skaters, like many pro athletes, are not college educated. So...I'm wondering how they pay back all that coaching money with nothing but trophies and not being college educated to show for it.
Do most skaters end up in debt after their careers are over?
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In most cases, the Mummy and Daddy trust fund covers skating expenses.
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economic disparity for the win
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I'm not sure if you're referring to elite international competitors or to lower level skaters.
Anyway, a few things:
1. In many countries, skating is not as expensive as it is in the US, and/or the federation covers at least some a skater's expenses past a certain stage. I doubt someone like Brian Joubert, who trains in Poitiers and doesn't work with famous (read: expensive) coaches has the sort of expenses a top American skater does.
2. There's prize money (the WTT is especially lucrative) and shows - not in the US so much, but you have shows in Russia, the Swiss-run Art On Ice, Artistry on Ice in China, a bunch of Japanese shows and tours, Yu-Na Kim's ATS shows for those lucky/good enough to be invited, Denis Ten headlined two big shows in Kazakhstan with a lot of skaters, etc.
3. Elite skaters don't usually go this route, but a lot of skaters sign on with cruise ships and tours and make some money from that.
4. I don't know why you'd assume most skaters are not educated. Some aren't, but many go to school or at least get coaching diplomas while they compete. The Universiade is an event for college/university students; active skaters who have medalled there over the years include Pechalat/Bourzat (and Pechalat recently finished her Master's degree, I believe), Daisuke Takahashi, Nobunari Oda, Akiko Suzuki, Valentina Marchaei, Kiira Korpi and Cappellini/Lanotte. Tomas Verner said in a recent interview that he'll be starting his MBA. Alban Preaubert got a Master's in management while an active skater and now works in finance. In the US, you also have a lot of educated skaters: Czisny is a college graduate, Flatt is at Stanford, and many Michigan-based ice dancers attend the University of Michigan at least part-time (D/W, the Shibutanis).
5. I don't think it's accurate to say that most pro athletes are not educated, either, since NFL players and some NBA and MLB players have at least some college education. Not sure about the NHL.
6. After skating careers end, so do the expenses. Assuming parents, and later federations, prize money and shows covered at least some of the costs, skaters can move on to coaching or other pursuits with no more debt than many American college graduates.
It's a question worth asking, though.
I imagine that some mid-level skaters end up with a lot of debt, or at least with the family's finances seriously eroded. People who come in fourth or fifth or lower at Nationals year after year until they realize that they have to give it up might have some financial trouble, at least for a few years. I presume this is probably true in the U.S.; I don't know what other countries' systems are. I imagine gymnastics (all those little girls dreaming of becoming Gabrielle Douglas or Nadia Comaneci) is probably similar.
I imagine that some mid-level skaters end up with a lot of debt, or at least with the family's finances seriously eroded. People who come in fourth or fifth or lower at Nationals year after year until they realize that they have to give it up might have some financial trouble, at least for a few years. I presume this is probably true in the U.S.; I don't know what other countries' systems are. I imagine gymnastics (all those little girls dreaming of becoming Gabrielle Douglas or Nadia Comaneci) is probably similar.
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Yes-a lot of college hockey players go on to the pros. Examples from University of Vermont:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Catamounts_men's_ice_hockey
Considering that Vermont is a relatively small school with a middle of the road Division 1 program that has never won the NCAA's in hockey, although it has appeared in them 5 times, and that it has as alumni:
A big time school, like University of Michigan, has 37 current alumni playing in the NHL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Wolverines_men's_ice_hockey#Current_roster
But they don't have Martin St. Louis or Tim Thomas
As to figure skaters, Kim Navarro & Brent Bommentre are currently doing shows with Ice Theatre of NY. We don't hear much about Ice Theatre, and it's nice to know that it is still a going concern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Catamounts_men's_ice_hockey
Considering that Vermont is a relatively small school with a middle of the road Division 1 program that has never won the NCAA's in hockey, although it has appeared in them 5 times, and that it has as alumni:
A big time school, like University of Michigan, has 37 current alumni playing in the NHL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Wolverines_men's_ice_hockey#Current_roster
But they don't have Martin St. Louis or Tim Thomas
As to figure skaters, Kim Navarro & Brent Bommentre are currently doing shows with Ice Theatre of NY. We don't hear much about Ice Theatre, and it's nice to know that it is still a going concern.
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Figure skating mimics life
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Ice theatre doesn't pay much, though. I don't know details, but the venue expenses, including rehearsals (ice time), are high compared to other live performing arts, and the audiences are limited, I imagine that even if there is grant support more of it goes to expenses than to salaries for the performers.
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Ann Patrice McDonough has been doing Royal Caribbean cruises for some time. Scott Smith gave an informative interview in which he mentioned that the skaters are part of the crew. When they are not performing they are performing other shipboard duties, shmoozing the passengers, and manning the lifeboats. He says that he enjoyed learning pairs choreography, because most of the acts are couples or small group numbers. There is also Disney on Ice.
This is a far cry from the 1950s when skaters tried to win amateur titles just so they could land a gig with Ice Capades or Ice Follies. Janet Lynn was the highest paid woman athlete in the world when she signed with Ice Capades for 1.5 million dollars.
This is a far cry from the 1950s when skaters tried to win amateur titles just so they could land a gig with Ice Capades or Ice Follies. Janet Lynn was the highest paid woman athlete in the world when she signed with Ice Capades for 1.5 million dollars.
I seriously doubt that most skaters have trust funds. I read somewhere that Agnes Zadwadzki's mother had a job cleaning houses. I have no idea if they end up in debt. I'm sure a skater like Ashley Wagner has sponsors and endorsement deals, along with income from shows in the US and in Asia, where skating is still popular.
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I think most skaters have trouble making ends meet. How many skaters end up winning anything in a major competition? I remember reading that all skaters win some cash in some competitions with the medalists winning the most. Johnny Weir was a major contender for a long time, and his reality show documented some of his financial struggles. He said that he would at least spend 80-100K a year on his training during his pre-celebrity days. I don't even want to think about skaters who are injured and what their medical bills plus training must be like. I imagine even if he won prizes and skated in shows, most of his money would have gone to his skating.
The elite skaters who meet some success still have the options of skating in Japan, Korea, Europe, and Russia where the shows are still going on. I saw Naomi Lang and Steven Cousins (now Berezhnaya's partner) skate on Ice Age in Russia; they met some success but didn't win major tournaments. Still get gigs.
The elite skaters who meet some success still have the options of skating in Japan, Korea, Europe, and Russia where the shows are still going on. I saw Naomi Lang and Steven Cousins (now Berezhnaya's partner) skate on Ice Age in Russia; they met some success but didn't win major tournaments. Still get gigs.
ISU championships and senior GP, I think.
And of course made-for-TV events, of which World Team Trophy seems to be the only one extant.
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For those who blithely say that parents foot the skating bills, I daresay that in some (or many) cases, the noble parents
incur significant debt. (I assume that "trust fund" was a tongue-in-cheek reference, although I for one do not find any humor in it.)I don't understand
how such hardship for the parents can be so cheerfully dismissed, even if it spares the skaters themselves from taking on debt of their own.ETA:
:agree: Yes, exactly. Did not see loopy's wise comments until after composing my post.
:agree: Yes, exactly. Did not see loopy's wise comments until after composing my post.
More examples to support Buttercup's point ...
Some Canadians also are partaking in higher education: Virtue, Tran, Jeremy Ten, Poirier, etc.
As for other Americans: Last season, Christina Gao took a full course load as a freshman at Harvard. Jason Brown and Maddie Aaron are in the same freshman English class in Colorado. Brown also is taking a Japanese language course. Max Aaron is studying business. Dornbush is in college.
More U Mich folk: Kriengkrairut and Samuelson recently graduated; Bates is close to finishing.
Etc., etc.
And JGP medalists receive prize money, in smaller amounts.
The Global Prize money per individual event of the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating is US$ 22.500 and is awarded to each medal winner for each category as follows:
Ladies and Men:
- 1st place US$ 2.000,00
- 2nd place US$ 1.500,00
- 3rd place US$ 1.000,00
- 2nd place US$ 1.500,00
- 3rd place US$ 1.000,00
Pairs and Ice Dance (per couple):
- 1st place US$ 3.000,00
- 2nd place US$ 2.250,00
- 3rd place US$ 1.500,00
- 2nd place US$ 2.250,00
- 3rd place US$ 1.500,00
The prize money for the JGP Final is higher.
ETA:
The Prize Money made available by the ISU for the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final is: US$ 105,000.00.
The individual prize money will be as follows:
The individual prize money will be as follows:
Men and Ladies
Pairs and Ice Dance (per Couple)
- 1st place US$ 6,000.00
- 2nd place US$ 5,000.00
- 3rd place US$ 4,000.00
- 4th place US$ 3,000.00
- 5th place US$ 2,000.00
- 6th place US$ 1,000.00
- 2nd place US$ 5,000.00
- 3rd place US$ 4,000.00
- 4th place US$ 3,000.00
- 5th place US$ 2,000.00
- 6th place US$ 1,000.00
Pairs and Ice Dance (per Couple)
- 1st place US$ 9,000.00
- 2nd place US$ 7,500.00
- 3rd place US$ 6,000.00
- 4th place US$ 4,500.00
- 5th place US$ 3,000.00
- 6th place US$ 1,500.00
- 2nd place US$ 7,500.00
- 3rd place US$ 6,000.00
- 4th place US$ 4,500.00
- 5th place US$ 3,000.00
- 6th place US$ 1,500.00
It is really a tragedy how much money is spent on achieving results without any hope of a payoff (assuming you are successful). This sport runs upwards of 90,000 dollars a year, if you take into account coaching fees, ice, costumes, travel, off ice conditioning, dance, Pilates, massage, the list goes on and on. No one is making parents pay, but it is a vortex of money that parents suddenly find themselves in. The team envelopes are not sufficient in any way. Unless you are so talented and can document your poverty the sport belongs to the wealthy, or parents willing to gamble their retirement, homes, etc to helping their children achieve success. The glory days of skating are long gone...I hope that changes. But in the meantime, I urge all parents of skaters to keep them in regular school, focus on that first, as skating is fleeting and not a career one can "bank" on. Having said all of this, I still love watching skating and marvel at the astonishing abilities so many of the skaters exhibit. It is a double shame that figure skating is not valued as a sport, harder and more complex than any other, the perfect blend of athleticism and art.
How many skaters' parents are rich? I know that most skaters come from comfortable homes, but I can't think of any who would have a trust fund.
Sarah and Tara are often given as an example as rich girls growing up, and Tonya, of course was poor. The rest are somewhere in the middle, but probably upper middle class. I think Todd and Nancy came from relatively humble circumstances, too, now that I think of it.
Sarah and Tara are often given as an example as rich girls growing up, and Tonya, of course was poor. The rest are somewhere in the middle, but probably upper middle class. I think Todd and Nancy came from relatively humble circumstances, too, now that I think of it.
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Scott Hamilton came from a home with two teachers, then nearly quit skating altogether after his mother's doctor bills mounted on top of his skating bills. They moved from his father's dream home to a smaller house to try and make it easier, but even then it wasn't until a willing benefactor jumped in that Scott was able to continue.
Well said, momof5, and welcome to GS!
I imagine gymnastics is like this as well, except that the pattern of spending varies a bit. Like skating, gymnastics can create stars within the sport with nowhere to go afterward. There's almost no room at the top. Gabby Douglas is literally one of a kind for various reasons, including the fact that no other American has ever won a double gold in Olympic gymnastics (team gold, individual all-around). Likewise, Michelle Kwan is unique in skating. Even potential gold medalists Davis and White don't seem to be growing rich and famous from their stellar skating.
Another thought: unlike many other sports, skating and gymnastics training begins at such an early age that the result is years of extra expense. Of course kids can start playing baseball and football in elementary school, but a talented player can begin in high school or later, whereas skaters really need to start honing their bodies by the age of about seven or earlier. That's almost another decade of expensive coaching, ice time, travel, and so forth.
Your point about keeping school a priority is so important. God forbid there's an injury, leaving the athlete with no career at all. (An example is the prodigiously talented Naomi Nari Nam.) Even with a moderately successful competitive career, a skater can end up with no job prospects in the skating world and not enough international success to become a bankable celebrity. That's when the BA degree can serve as a rescue craft for the athlete.
I imagine gymnastics is like this as well, except that the pattern of spending varies a bit. Like skating, gymnastics can create stars within the sport with nowhere to go afterward. There's almost no room at the top. Gabby Douglas is literally one of a kind for various reasons, including the fact that no other American has ever won a double gold in Olympic gymnastics (team gold, individual all-around). Likewise, Michelle Kwan is unique in skating. Even potential gold medalists Davis and White don't seem to be growing rich and famous from their stellar skating.
Another thought: unlike many other sports, skating and gymnastics training begins at such an early age that the result is years of extra expense. Of course kids can start playing baseball and football in elementary school, but a talented player can begin in high school or later, whereas skaters really need to start honing their bodies by the age of about seven or earlier. That's almost another decade of expensive coaching, ice time, travel, and so forth.
Your point about keeping school a priority is so important. God forbid there's an injury, leaving the athlete with no career at all. (An example is the prodigiously talented Naomi Nari Nam.) Even with a moderately successful competitive career, a skater can end up with no job prospects in the skating world and not enough international success to become a bankable celebrity. That's when the BA degree can serve as a rescue craft for the athlete.
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I heard that Agnes and her mother share a one-bedroom apartment and one of them sleeps on the couch. This was a couple of years ago now.
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